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post #1 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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308 GTS viewing

Guys
I stumbled across and advert for a 308 GTS which is for sale in Ireland. Only for the fact that the car is close to me I wouldn't have even rang the owner - so bad was the ad and with such lack of information (plus on a website I'd never even heard of).

Anyway I'm going to take a look at it, probably tomorrow. In the meantime here is the only picture available plus the details from the ad. Other details I have at present are;
- present owner has been in posession for 6+ yrs
- It's a carb model GTS
- Crema interior "re-done" 4 yrs ago
- Belt service 1,000 miles (2 years) ago
- Original UK car
- Some UK history/paperwork/MOT info available

From the ad itself:

Model: 308 GTS
Color: Red
Year: 1981
Country: Ireland
60,459 miles, petrol, Red with cream leather interior

And here's the picture.

Any observations, comments etc (on what little info available at present) would be most welcome (please don't hesitate to state the obvious )
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post #2 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 11:42 AM
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Well, looks ok. Something about the hood in that shot. Either not shut completely or?

I'm no expert, but guessing it's a QV? IF so, then did they paint the luvs black in that year? I just don't know the 3x8 series very well.

SN and some interior shots, would be nice.

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post #3 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 11:51 AM
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That's a reflection of another car or a motorcycle. Its an injected car with 214hp if its an 81. They switched over to fuel injection in 1980.... a handful of 1980 models were carb cars though. The marker lights are indicative of a euro 308. Hard to say if its a bad pic or misaligned hood... or both.

Oh and its not a QV. All Qvs had vented hood and either 16 inch tires or metric TRX. That car clearly has 14 inch rims on it. It does have carb mirrors on it though... which makes me think its an 80 model titled as an 81.

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post #4 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 11:57 AM
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Yup: Hood luvs should have been the obvious give way unless Euro were different. Round side marker means Euro to me also.

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post #5 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 12:03 PM
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Barry- That would be a very late carb model because GTSi production began for the US in late Summer 80 (308 GTBi/GTSi OM first published as 186/80).

The car looks very nice and is virtually identical to the 1978 Euro LHD model I had, except mine had the deep spoiler. The good news is she will have the single distributor electronic ignition first introduced in 1978 or so with no points to replace and set. Generally, these carb 308s with electronic ignition are very reliable and easy to maintain. The gearboxes tend to be very stiff shifting, which can be greatly improved with the new 75W-90 synthetic transmission oils.

Ferraris built up until 1983 were very prone to rust, so you want to watch for that on body panels, especially. Both doors on my 78 had rusted through by 1982. Mine ran like a top, but watch for any spitting at idle that smooths out at higher rpm and can indicate a burned valve.

Good luck with her and hope she works out for you. They are a blast to drive and still very quick.

Taz
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post #6 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Guys
Thank you. These are all excellent observations and comments. I'm far from a 308 expert and even further from being a competant mechanic (I tend to never even look at the engine).

So if I'm correct here, what were looking at is a 1981 (but manufactured in 1980) late model carb GTS, probably one of the last carb models?

For the moment I will be only looking for the obvious in terms of body work, general condition, drivability etc. If things progress further its PPI time after that!

Any other comments or observations (or general what to look for in a 308) are all welcome....

Cheers...

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post #7 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Barry- That would be a very late carb model because GTSi production began for the US in late Summer 80 (308 GTBi/GTSi OM first published as 186/80).

Taz
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Does 186/80 mean the 186th day in 1980? So July 1980? Was there every a period where carb and injected model would have come off the production line simultaniously?

If not, then potentially what I'm looking at is a pre July 1980 manufactured 308 that was not originally registered in the UK with it's first owner until some time in 1981 (which I suppose is a reasonable proposition?)

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post #8 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 01:49 PM
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I will be over in Dublin next Friday. Might be able to take a look depending on meeting schedule etc.
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post #9 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
I will be over in Dublin next Friday. Might be able to take a look depending on meeting schedule etc.
Boxer
That would be fantastic if it worked out. The car is only about 10 min drive from Dublin airport (if your flying in?)

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post #10 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 02:22 PM
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Barry- 186/80 is just Ferrari's numbering system for documents. 186 means it is the 186th document since the system begain with the 275 as 01/65, and the second number is the year of publication. So if you look at Ferrari owners manuals and their document number, it gives you a clue to when production began.

Offhand, I would say the car would have been built in 1980 and first registered in 1981. There was definitely overlap on GTB/S and GTB/Si production and those kinds of overlaps continued for quite a while, although less currently. As an example the 575M, Superamerica and 612 were all in production on the same line in Spring 2005.

Seems like they do less of that now and shut down lines before beginning production on new models very different from their predecessor.

Taz
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post #11 of 36 Old 08-30-2011, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Terry.
You learn something new every day. Much appreciated.

Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
Ex's: Dino 308 GT4, 612 Scaglietti
The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #12 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Guys
Just back in from seeing aforementioned 308.

Some good news, some bad. It's a 308 GTS carb model, started with no problems, drove well (only a v. short test drive though) sounds lovely, transmission a little reluctant but within a few minutes 1st to 2nd to 3rd all fine etc. Brakes were a bit spongy - but also cold and it hadn't moved in months.

Electrics all worked but wipers were very slow, drivers window very very slow and passenger window not working. Lights all worked but indicators very faint and blinking fast. All other lights working fine.

Bad news, the interior was very dirty (by my standards), but the leather is only 4yrs old (seats and doors) and on inspection looks like it would clean up ok.

Really bad news is the paint work. Lots of small little chips and minute dents (maybe 6-8 in total). Multiple instances of corrosion under the paintwork on the doors and wings. Plus some minor scrapes in various places and a crack in the front bumper. Plus all 4 alloys would need a full refurb and repaint. Realistically I think that a full bare metal respray would be necessary to restore it to its former glory. But that said panel gaps seemed consistent etc.

On the history side, there are numerous UK MOT certs and bits and pieces of service history but nothing complete. No service history since it was imported by the current owner to Ireland (c. 7 yrs ago) but he claims has been serviced, most recently 2 yrs (1,000 miles) ago where belts were done (I'm inclinded to believe that - the old belts were still hanging in the garage.)

On the plus side, the gentleman selling it is very genuine. I met him at his (very substantial!) home, he owns multiple cars including classic Jags and Rolls, is in his late 60s or so and looking to clear some space (i.e. those he never drives any more). He knows the car is not perfect and would require a lot of external work to get it right and he's willing to part with it for a pretty good price (but is it good enough?!) based on the work needing to be done.

Let's assume the engine/mechanics/electrics are all ok (but a PPI would be done before any purchase to confirm). Let's also assume a full bare metal respray (incl treatment of corrosion where present) is needed, plus 4 wheel refurb, 4 new tyres and a full major service and lets throw in brake pads and discs too.

OK so we're talking a project car here (and I can't do any of this myself) but I'd be happy to consider doing it over time as budget permits and bonding with the car in the process. If the above assumptions prove to be correct then a) what should I realistically pay for it and b) am I out of my mind to be even considering it.

Here's a load of pictures (iPhone quality) to help you deliberate.

BTW when I drove it that short distance, the sound, the smell, I just wanted to keep going... (and that sentiment is not conducive to a rational decision)
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Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
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The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #13 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Here's some more pics...
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Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
Ex's: Dino 308 GT4, 612 Scaglietti
The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #14 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Last set of pics...
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Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
Ex's: Dino 308 GT4, 612 Scaglietti
The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #15 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 02:27 PM
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Barry,

I know absolutely nothing about the 3x8 series, but here's my general comments regarding a clasic car purchase:

From the pictures and your description, the car sounds like it's worth current (average) market value. It's not a show car, but otherwise looks to be in very good nick.

The cosmetic/body flaws should be repairable without a total respray. A good quality respray would cost a substantial percentage of it's current value. So I say do the spot repairs necessary to make it a presentable driver. BTW - Sheehan did an article on a respray of a 308 not too long ago. It's worth hunting it down and a read.
The interior sounds like it needs nothing more than sweat labor.

Next, fix the mechanical bits so you can pass MOT and and make it road worthy.

Then drive the snot out of it.
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post #16 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
Barry,

I know absolutely nothing about the 3x8 series, but here's my general comments regarding a clasic car purchase:

From the pictures and your description, the car sounds like it's worth current (average) market value. It's not a show car, but otherwise looks to be in very good nick.

The cosmetic/body flaws should be repairable without a total respray. A good quality respray would cost a substantial percentage of it's current value. So I say do the spot repairs necessary to make it a presentable driver. BTW - Sheehan did an article on a respray of a 308 not too long ago. It's worth hunting it down and a read.
The interior sounds like it needs nothing more than sweat labor.

Next, fix the mechanical bits so you can pass MOT and and make it road worthy.

Then drive the snot out of it.
David
Thank you for your thoughts. I'm inclined to think on similar lines. But I can't trust myself in such situations, the proverbial child in the toy shop.

Maybe a full respray would be overkill? I was budgeting on about €7,000 for a bare metal job, maybe €4-5K for a simpler respray. Perhaps spot repair would be cheaper, but at some point multiple spot repairs end up justifying a full spray!

I certainly would not want a garage queen, but equally I'm a bit anal when it comes to how I like my cars to look. Still that said, I would want one that can be taken out and driven in the manner that it was designed for, but also looks like it just rolled off a Maranello production line.

That's not too much to ask for is it?

Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
Ex's: Dino 308 GT4, 612 Scaglietti
The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #17 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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I'm really p1ssed with myself that I never took a single picture of the interior. The leather did look genuinely new(ish), though really badly kept (dirt/grime etc). I could easily believe it was 4 yrs old though. Carpets were in reasonable condition, I didn't really take enough time to look at all the switch gear etc though.

Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
Ex's: Dino 308 GT4, 612 Scaglietti
The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #18 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 04:51 PM
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Spot on advice from David. Interesting that its got a single exhaust pipe. I thought only the first series glass cars had that. Looks like it would be worth the investment for a nice coat of paint and some electrical work.

Current: 85' GTS QV
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post #19 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 09:54 PM
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Looking at the pictures, rough guess is the car is worth GBP 15k and then budget another GBP 8-10k to get the work done (I would send it to Al in Wales). Net net, for GBP 25k you would end up with a great 308 GTS (assuming the mechanicals check out).
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post #20 of 36 Old 08-31-2011, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Looking at the pictures, rough guess is the car is worth GBP 15k and then budget another GBP 8-10k to get the work done (I would send it to Al in Wales). Net net, for GBP 25k you would end up with a great 308 GTS (assuming the mechanicals check out).

I was just thinking of giving Al a call.

Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
Ex's: Dino 308 GT4, 612 Scaglietti
The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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