Considering this 348, Any thoughts??? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 41 Old 06-26-2010, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Considering this 348, Any thoughts???

Well, I'm seriously considering this 92 348 Euro model. Now I know I need a PPI, there is a Ferrari dealership in Toronto, the car is in Toronto as well.

It’s got some mods, no cats, and sport exhaust (I asked the salesman but he didn’t know what kind of muffler on it until they bring it up on the lift for pictures I requested for under the car).

Mileage is 42,000 kms (26,000 miles), they said they are going to do the belts and water pump in the price. It does not have the tool kit and documents either but…they said, all service was done at a specific shop it Toronto for the last 3 year and that shop has all the history of the last 3 years (I needs to confirm this and verify the documents myself or the deal is off).

It car does not come with the original cats, exhaust or the original wheels; I’m assuming they were sold a long time ago when the mods were done. Now the wheels are ok and look nice

One pic of the front wheel shows the pads making only 2 contact points to me meaning they need to be replaced and I'm also wondering in what condition the clutch is. They are not a Ferrari dealer but sell other high end exotics like Lambo’s and GT3’s and do the servicing as well.

The interior looks nice and the car looks straight but it’s a 5 hour drive to look at it so most of our communication is either via phone or email.

They are asking $59,900 for it, the prices of 348’s in Canada are around $45K - $55K and the $55K one’s are immaculate with all history, tools with 10,000 kms less so the price is off target.


Any thoughts???


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1990 348 TS (87284)

“I build cars for young men that only old men can afford” - Enzo Ferrari
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post #2 of 41 Old 06-26-2010, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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More pics, it's has the color combo I like with half the doors being tan.

It also comes with the car cover.



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“I build cars for young men that only old men can afford” - Enzo Ferrari
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post #3 of 41 Old 06-26-2010, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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I have prenty more of pictures since we are doing this more over the phone and email but cant add more because I'm getting an error.



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post #4 of 41 Old 06-26-2010, 05:04 PM
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should come down here to the US! saw one last week asking 32k. probobly coulda got it for 30k or less. not as nice as the one you are looking at, but 30k goes a long way. you say the prices up there are 45-55k. is that asking or selling? either way, i feel sorry for you guys. after you pay that price you have to pay 3x the price for gas to drive it. I would almost consider it though to live in montreal



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post #5 of 41 Old 06-26-2010, 06:35 PM
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I am happy for you that you are considering a purchase, Mario. My opinion is that if everything checks out to your satsifaction, this looks like a fine example.

I checked the market price of similar models here in Japan, and it is pretty much the same. Probably you can check the US/Europe markets where there would be more choices, but importing and everything else may be a hassle.

Too bad that the dealer is so far away. (Canada is a big country). It would be far more decisive if you were able to see and touch the car in person. Any more comments would be futile, since you know what you are looking for.

Good luck with your search and we are all looking forward to hear good news soon, Mario. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #6 of 41 Old 06-26-2010, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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I know the prices in the US a lower and it's on my consider list. The major problem here is distance to go look at it.

I do plan to go see it, sit in it, inspect it and drive it. I will not buy a car over a phone call...I'm not that rich....not yet anyways...LOL

Any tips from the real pros who have been there would help....any comment is welcome and much appreciated.

Another thing... this is a Euro model, can someone check the VIN and see it it's ok and was not salvaged?

It was imported into Quebec and when they do (the free window to Canada) previous status no longer applies as well when it left to go to Ontario. Can someone help ???


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1990 348 TS (87284)

“I build cars for young men that only old men can afford” - Enzo Ferrari

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post #7 of 41 Old 06-26-2010, 08:34 PM
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Mario send me the vin and I can check my 348 database of carfax and autocheck report's I have saved.

Also have you seen Tom's car "Tclark" check the buyer's section on here. I would seriously consider that one a TB SS very rare. When I bought mine it was in Virginia and never got to see it before I bought it. But I new I wouldn't have to. Just send it out for a PPI near the seller and go from there.

Shipping was quick and the broker stuff is easy. You have some great car carrier's in your neck of the woods. And they will put you in touch with the broker's as well if needed.

Having said all this that car look like it's in great condition and if you feel more comfortable with buying it there then just take it in and get the PPI done. Is it for sale at a dealer who specializes in Fcars etc?

Cheer's and have fun searching!

PS: Sorry Mario totally missed that pic with the VIN (been a really long day!) I just checked and I don't have that one in my records.

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post #8 of 41 Old 06-26-2010, 11:29 PM
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Now, I call that a real help and advice, FBI. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #9 of 41 Old 06-27-2010, 03:05 AM
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I have seen this in on the other site (which I will not mention ) that interior combo with black carpets is rare I believe only that one. Seemed OK to me with decent history.

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post #10 of 41 Old 06-27-2010, 04:49 PM
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Mario my friend

Pics look very nice, interior is a wonderful color, CF interior is fairly expensive, 3 years documented history is a bit of a challenge to accept but a fresh Major makes me feel better. My problem is the money...thats CRAZY money for a 348.

I realize there are some issues "importing" a car but 60K...really. If that car was a perfect concorso car its worth 45 tops. With the limitations I see in history alone, I'm thinking 40 tops. Add the other flaws such as missing original parts and you down closer to 35. (Thats USD). If your already sold I'd say go to 40 but I'm sure you can find a better example for more realistic $.

Lane

Previous owner of 348ts SS #64, Now Ferrariless

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post #11 of 41 Old 06-27-2010, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Mario my friend

Pics look very nice, interior is a wonderful color, CF interior is fairly expensive, 3 years documented history is a bit of a challenge to accept but a fresh Major makes me feel better. My problem is the money...thats CRAZY money for a 348.

I realize there are some issues "importing" a car but 60K...really. If that car was a perfect concorso car its worth 45 tops. With the limitations I see in history alone, I'm thinking 40 tops. Add the other flaws such as missing original parts and you down closer to 35. (Thats USD). If your already sold I'd say go to 40 but I'm sure you can find a better example for more realistic $.
Bastage, tell me if I'm wrong but I was thinking 42 max with a major and fresh clutch, 38-40 max no clutch. Brakes could also be on top.

They said replacing the timing belt and water pump but I didn't go in details. I had a quick conversation with the salesman because he did not have all the technical info. I'm trying to find my list of things for a major, but I think it's on my old PC, might have to bring my old HD to work to retrieve.

The only thing I can see why the price is this high is because they are adding the add on's on the car like rims, performance pipes, muffler and CF. The problem with that is they dont have any of the original parts with it.

I'm not sold yet, but there is some serious negotiations to be made but it doesn't mean the car is no good,..just the price....

I really appreciate your advice Bas.....


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“I build cars for young men that only old men can afford” - Enzo Ferrari

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post #12 of 41 Old 06-27-2010, 07:53 PM
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I'm not looking at it, touching it, feeling it, smelling it, you are. Its obviously VERY difficult to get the real feel of the car without being there. That being said I really think 42 (USD) is to high, 42 (CAN) is right at the VERY top. The car would need to be Perfect for that number and it does not appear to be but its your call. I have no idea what the market will bear, what alternatives may be available , or what the difficulties are for importing. I also have no idea how Canadian market forces are affecting prices.

FYI...single disc clutches are running about 1500 (USD) for parts alone. Majors can be done for something between 5000 and 8000 assuming no surprises.

These things are EASY to fall in love with...Huh.

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post #13 of 41 Old 06-27-2010, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Bas, the Canadian market is not too far from the US one and the numbers you said are pretty much right.

Some non regular dealerships that are selling Ferrari's are not in the price range but others that do, pretty much are and maybe only 5K-8K more max than private.

Average price is 44-46 for excellent shape w/docs and tools.

I haven't seen it yet or made an offer on it so I will have to wait and see. I need to talk to them more this week.

* To others reading* Bas and I are having a conversation but anyone can jump in, all suggestions on this discussion are welcome!




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post #14 of 41 Old 06-28-2010, 04:34 PM
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No solace to you, but I like it except for the shield, which looks to be a pastie.

Now the price: NO. halve that or throw in a major and make it about $35-40k

Do I think they'll get that: No. That's almost the price of a 355 today, and although 355's have more issues, they are much more car.

High price listed, for a true negotiation, where the buyer will feel 'lucky' when they spring the 20% off discount.

Get a major thrown in, and by a good mech.

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post #15 of 41 Old 06-28-2010, 05:04 PM
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It looks very nice, however there are concerns,
1. Car looks great, if someone took great care then where are the Tool kit and Service records, manuals and Pouch ?
2. The wheels look really nice but where are originals ?
3. The Cf door sills and logos are nice--where are originals ?
4. The CF dash is not original so you have to like the CF look to begin with
5. See what alternator this car has, the early ones had some issues--
$2000.00 to 2500.00 fix with an upgrade kit
6. Have them check all electrical switches, see how fast the windpws go up an down
7. The are asking Top quality Original low mileage price and it doesn't add up, Just my opinion. You can get a really nice 348 Spider for 45K or so, at least in the States
Good Luck on your purchase

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post #16 of 41 Old 06-28-2010, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI View Post
Mario send me the vin and I can check my 348 database of carfax and autocheck report's I have saved... I just checked and I don't have that one in my records.
CARFAX only works on "U.S." VINs
--------------------------------------------------------------
The pics look terrific.

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post #17 of 41 Old 06-28-2010, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I have good new, good news, bad news and really good news.

First, the good news, I didn’t buy the car….why? well…

Here’s the second good news. I got a PM from ALEX A who happens to be a sponsor of FL. He is the owner of Daytona Auto Service in Ontario. He told me he knew some of the history of the car. He said he did the aftermarket parts and did some stuff here and there for the car but never performed a major.

He also said the car has been stored for a full year then taken out to be exchanged for a new Benz. He said the car absolutely needed a major and was willing to pick up the car and document everything on DVD and sent me the list of all things that they were going to do. I reviewed the list and it was a large list and I couldn’t think of anything more as it seemed to be exactly what I had. As well the clutch and brakes needed to be looked at during the major.

The 348 came into Canada from Switzerland to a Quebec dealer (a good one) but had no docs. The car was sold (in good running order) to a customer then it moved to Ontario. Now I'm not sure if the owner moved to Ontario or of it went to another owner in Ontario (another province/or state as you guys call it in the US), but it doesn;t matter now. He told me the car never got a major in 7 years and the price should seriously be negotiated (obviously).

The bad news, I called the dealer selling the 348 in Ontario and said, all these after market parts are nice to have but originals are not with the car because they were not given with the car when the dealer took it for exchange on a new Benz 500.

New wheels (the company no longer exist so good luck finding a replacement rim, have to buy 4 new ones if one is damaged). The old ones do not come with the car, because there are none. Some might say "I never had to change a rim before because of damage", well come visit Canada and make sure your spare is good...pot holes in Quebec are so huge sometimes, you could back up a bass boat and go fishing in them.

The car has two pipes instead of cats (cats are not included because there are none).

Performance muffler (original….again none)

Performance chip (original chip….none)

No tools or leather pouch.

No records at all, not even from Switzerland.

When I was talking to the salesman, I informed him of all these findings and he said he just found out there were no records at all from Canada.

Anyways, I said we need to talk money, I told him I got a quote from Daytona for a major and I would want it done and if brakes are needed that will be negotiated from the price and that I would offer him $44K firm.

His reply was almost like I told him I just backed up on the hood of his car with my ¾ ton truck and ripped the thing to hell. He was calm but seriously not happy almost to a point in the tone of his voice like if I said $10,000 for the car. His reply was "we are competitively priced in the market for 348’s and no lower than $55K and we will only change the timing belt".

So they obviously know nothing about Ferrari’s and im walking away….again….4th time now from a 348….I swear to god im fxxcken jinxed.

So now I need to cool down because I don’t want to buy the next one just because I want one and im definitely not paying $55K on a car that the engine might blow up due to sitting in a garage for a year with no work for 7 years.

And last, the good news, I called Alex at Daytona to inform him of the dealer’s decision and I think negligence or inexperience in the cars they offers.

Alex told me to walk away, it’s over priced, and my offer was reasonable, I should not pay more because aftermarket parts were added but no originals to go with it. Alex even tried to contact the previous owner for me. I didn’t get a chance to go further with the owner thing because the dealer is not serious about selling Ferrari’s, they have one to sell and that's it, it’s as far as the commitment goes for cars. But…why was it Daytona’s job to contact the owner for me, give me a list of repairs that would be performed with all the prices when he is getting nothing in return??? He gets nothing and he is helping me out!!!! The other place….didn‘t care, that's what the price was and that’s it.

Alex at Daytona said, “Mario, if you find any other Ferrari in the Toronto area, call me, I will go look at it for you if you want since you are in Ottawa (5 hours away) and if it looks good and you want to consider buying the car, I will inspect it (PPI), and tell you what the deal is on that car so you can get a good one and if work needs to be done, my 2 trained Ferrari Technicians will take care of the job”…….. now that’s what I call a good businessman and excellent customer service, a man who cares about the cars he works on and hopefully a new future customer(s). He could have easily said I have documents, worked up a deal with the dealership just to get a sale on a belt replacement. But no…he was straight forward and told me to walk away and that he would help me in any way he could.

Alex, thank you…..you are a man of integrity, a hard thing to find these days.

Here is his info…


Alex Armellin

Ferrari Service
Daytona Auto Service
5309 Hwy 7
Woodbridge Ontario
905 264 9982
www.daytonaauto.ca

Andrew....this is an amazing sponsor, great choice.
Alex, I raise my glass to you!


To everyone who posted their advice, many thanks, I appreciated every word.


The search goes on...



~

Mario

1990 348 TS (87284)

“I build cars for young men that only old men can afford” - Enzo Ferrari

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post #18 of 41 Old 06-28-2010, 08:50 PM
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Bravo Alex!!

You got yourself some great help Mario.

I thought he had a couple 348's for sale, Look into those you'll know there sorted. Great shop! Great site! Alex if I make it to T.O I'll have to come by and check out the shop.

Cheers
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post #19 of 41 Old 06-29-2010, 01:56 AM
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Great finale, Mario. Thanx for sharing your saga. Such relationship is what counts. Good luck with your search. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #20 of 41 Old 06-29-2010, 04:28 AM
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