328 Fuel pump/no start troubleshooting - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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328 Fuel pump/no start troubleshooting

Here is what to check when your 328 won't start. If you have ignition spark and the car will not start most likely this is the problem. If you car is currently working, go out and try this. Turn the key to the on position and you should here the electric fuel pump run for a few seconds and then go off. It's a good idea to get to know this sound in case you have a problem someday and the first thing someone will ask is "do you hear the fuel pump when you first turn the key".

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post #2 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Here is the Bosch part number for the pump if you have tried everything first and have decided you need a pump.

328 Fuel Pump
F PN 121727
Bosch 0 580 254 947
(Bosch USA 5-digit PN 61947)

Buy from any Bosch supplier -- e.g., www.importeccatalog.com (type in the 10-digit Bosch PN or the 5-digit Bosch USA PN)

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post #3 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Here is the schematic of the fuel pump circuit: The relays shown are U,S and R. IF you pull relay "R" and jumper pin 30 to 87 you will have bypassed all the relays and the fuel pump should run assuming you have the key on and 12v at F20 and Pin 30.
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post #4 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Here is the fuse panel layout. Notice the relays and connectors down low in the pic. They are behind a panel in the passenger footwell. To access just pull back the carpet and remove the four screws holding the panel.
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post #5 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Here are some pics of the AFM and the blue connector on the safety switch. The AFM is the large disk below the air filter. With the key in the on position you should be able to push down on the AFM disk lightly and you should hear the fuel pump turn on.

Don't go crazy with this since you can fill the engine up with fuel if you keep playing with it and running the fuel pump. Just a quick test to make the fuel pump run. You should have no problem hearing the pump. It is in the lower left of the engine compartment behind the drivers seat. If you listen near the drivers side wheel well you can easily hear the pump when it kicks on.

When you turn the key to "on", both relays "u" and "s" should activate. In a quiet garage, you'll hear them click. In a noisy garage, you can feel them activate, if you place a finger on them. (Be advised - they get warm.)

When you turn the key to "start", that runs power through relay "s" to activate relay "r" which powers the fuel pump. When the car begins to injest air, the AFM plate moves off its rest position, opening the safety switch. That deactivates relay "s", and ignition power (from relay "u") holds relay "r" active. If the car stalls, the AFM plate returns to rest, activating relay "s" and cutting off power to the fuel pump relay "r" until you hit the starter again.

If you turn the key to "on" and press on the AFM plate, relay "s" should click off and relay "r" should click on ... and the fuel pump should run.
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post #6 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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If you don't hear the pump run when you first turn the key to the on position or when you push down on the AFM diaphram the next step is to remove the relay "R" and jumper pin 87 to pin 30 as shown. If the pump is still not getting power check for 12volts on connector "W" pin 4

If the pump starts to run when you jumper the pins you could have a problem with one of the relays or the AFM switch. If you have power on the brown wire on connector W after jumpering the pins but the fuel pump still does not have power then pull back the carpet on the passenger side and remove the panel.
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post #7 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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These pics show a common problem with one of the connectors (connector 144 in the factory schematics)for the fuel pump located in the passenger footwell. On mine I was able to clean up the contacts but others have either replaced them or just removed the two wires and soldered them together to bypass the connector.

If you are doing winter maintenance it might be a good idea to look at this connector and clean up the contacts! Might save you from getting stuck somewhere this summer!
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post #8 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKRace View Post
Here is what to check when your 328 won't start. If you have ignition spark and the car will not start most likely this is the problem. If you car is currently working, go out and try this. Turn the key to the on position and you should here the electric fuel pump run for a few seconds and then go off. It's a good idea to get to know this sound in case you have a problem someday and the first thing someone will ask is "do you hear the fuel pump when you first turn the key".
Kevin,

This sure is an interesting thread, thanks! Will try it out next time I start my baby up (which may be a while, since it's snowing and freezing out here )

Irvin

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post #9 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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If you think you have a relay problem and want to test they are not all identical!! You can swap "s" with "d" or "e" (headlamp lifting motors), or "u" or "r" with "l" or "m"
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post #10 of 88 Old 01-04-2010, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a link to a site that has the 328 manual, wiring diagrams and schematics posted as well as some other cars. http://www.stevejenkins.com/ or http://ferrari.stevejenkins.com/books/
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post #11 of 88 Old 09-14-2012, 05:26 PM
 
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This is a great thread, thanks for posting it! Dealing with this issue currently on my car, 87 328. Fuel pump is not coming on with key in position 1. Cranks ok but no start. Gotta be fuel related.

I'm a new member here, been on F-Chat for 9 years, and I plan on frequenting this site more often now!

Greg,
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post #12 of 88 Old 09-14-2012, 05:47 PM
 
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Greg,

I am a dual member too. Have you verified that the protection relay is working?
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post #13 of 88 Old 09-14-2012, 08:18 PM
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Greg- Welcome to Ferrari Life. Another source of 328 technical data is ferraridatabase.com.

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post #14 of 88 Old 09-14-2012, 08:18 PM
 
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Well, I've felt the lower 2 relays click when I turn the key to the "on" position. I think there's one more relay above the 2, but it's somewhat obstructed by the dash. I'll try to find out tomorrow AM.

A friend on the other site claims that the 328 fuel pump does NOT come on with key at position 1. Only when the starter is cranking, or the AFM plate is pressed, or the AFM safety switch is unplugged.

I'm going to test for spark as well. Need to get a timing light.

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post #15 of 88 Old 09-17-2012, 10:14 AM
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Hi Greg, on my 1989 - 328 its also like that, it does not sound when on position 1, it only kick in when starter turns.

Another thing, my fuel pump was faulty, the revs was jumpy when car idles but car was still mobile (I could still drive ) sorted out when Fuel Pump was replaced.

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post #16 of 88 Old 09-18-2012, 09:11 AM
 
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Glad you sorted your issue. oddly, my car started without a problem when i tried again the other day. i have no idea why...
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post #17 of 88 Old 09-18-2012, 10:12 AM
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great threaD kevin. can't believe i missed it. good to see u at dave's



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post #18 of 88 Old 09-18-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg328 View Post
Glad you sorted your issue. oddly, my car started without a problem when i tried again the other day. i have no idea why...
Greg what meant was - my car starts with no problems, but what I'm saying is - I can't hear the fuel pump when turning key to on position (pos. 1 ) before turning to start position.

My car is still like that, I can't hear the fuel pump, maby its very soft because its new, anyway I know its easy to flood the car, if you down the accelerator while trying to start for example.

My car will start instantly the first time especially on a cold or cool morning, after a drive, say the car is parked off for a hour or so she does not start so instantly - the starter will crank a little longer before she starts - or Ill switch her off and then the second try she will start. I assume its got something to do with the fuel pressure in the system or the fact that the cold start valve does not inject so much fuel like when cold (first time start )

cheers
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post #19 of 88 Old 05-25-2013, 08:17 PM
 
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Reviving an old thread. Im still fighting my hard-start problem (87 328). I've done a lot of troubleshooting and part replacing in an effort to resolve this. here's what I've done:
-replaced fuel pump, accumulator, filter
- replaced coil ignition modules
- tested the Marelli Microplex; it's ok
-pulled the fuel pump safety switch, fuel pump runs as normal with key on, and the frequency valve vibrates
-pulled the cold-start injector connector, same symptoms
-the 2 flywheel sensors tested normal for resistance last year. last week my TDC sensor showed way high resistance, RPM sensor still shows normal resistance. when running they both show normal voltage. i have two new ones to install next week. Im a bit confused as to how the car will still eventually start if the TDC sensor is actually bad...??
-I've ordered a CIS pressure tester and will test fuel pressures next week.

So, after careful consideration i think my problem may be down to my cold-start injection system. can anybody shed some light on how to troubleshoot this system? somebody suggested removing it and placing it in a jar to see if it squirts a bit a fuel when cranking. a Ferrari tech told me the cold-start injection is a common cause of my problem.

Id love to hear ideas from anybody on here that may help me pinpoint a solution!!!

Greg
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post #20 of 88 Old 05-26-2013, 12:49 PM
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Hi Greg,

Bring me up to speed...
Hard start hot or cold? Specifics are needed...
And once your system, cold and hot control pressures are known, an answer will be much easier.

And on a 328; if you have a bad TDC sensor, the car will not start. A resistance measurement on an inductive device is not the best diagnostic test, nor is it conclusive as to its condition.

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David

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