308 timing belt/tensioner bearing replacement - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 24 Old 11-12-2009, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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308 timing belt/tensioner bearing replacement

I'm just starting to replace the belts and tensioner bearings on my '78 308 and it looks like it may be a bit more work than I had hoped. Does anyone know where I can find a blow-by-blow account of the procedure starting from scratch? I've got an old service manual that is poorly translated and it is not that much help. I've also scrolled through the 308 section here and gained a lot of good information, but would be reassured by a "Changing Belts for Idiots Guide" or something like that.
My manual mentions removing the distributors to find alignment marks, but in the forum someone mentions a "cam lock method" and someone else says it is necessary to remove the valve covers and someone else mentions dowel pinning the cams. I'm looking for the easiest, surest method, and any help will really be appreciated, starting with: Do I need to remove the coolant pipe to do the job; do I really need to take the carb trumpets off to remove the air cleaner assembly to get the AC compressor out; and etc., etc.?
ALSO, I had some very bad luck ordering parts on Ebay imported into the US from Italy. I don't want to bad-mouth anyone publicly, but ask me privately and I'll be glad to tell you my horror story.

Thanks
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post #2 of 24 Old 11-14-2009, 09:33 AM
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A friend and I changed belts on my '78 308 last winter. As we intended to degree the cams we merely pinned or dowled them, pulled valve covers off, removed distributors etc. A/C pump came off for access as I wanted to bleed and recharge any way. We went a little deeper than we maybe had to but winter is long up here (as with you) and car is 30 year old. Interestingly we found that front bank of engine had never had covers removed and likely never had belt replaced, even though car had a receipt for service that included that belt. Getting ready to take car apart this winter to redo carpets, interior and suspension. If I can be of help email is [email protected]. Job is do-able for good home mechanics. Take lots of pix, I didn't and there was some head scratching after time spent with top end apart. Good Luck, Bill
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post #3 of 24 Old 11-17-2009, 09:38 AM
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http://www.camerafilters.com/ec/timing.htm may be of some assistance. Good luck.
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post #4 of 24 Old 11-17-2009, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks

Thanks to you both for the great advice. Since this is Idaho, I've pretty much got all winter, but with the info you've given me I'm actually anxious to get started. I don't like to let the 308 sit for more than a couple of weeks without running it, but with any luck it will be ready for the next "garage run" before then.

Thanks again,
Leland
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post #5 of 24 Old 11-29-2009, 03:24 PM
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Also try www.birdmanferrari.com very good step by step and a nice guy.
Bill

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post #6 of 24 Old 11-29-2009, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks much, I'll check it out tomorrow, since I haven't gotten around to doing the job yet. But crazyhorse, I gotta ask you--is that picture of a curved highway I see that's associated with your name a picture of part of the "Tail of the Dragon" road that I ran last year? Seems to me that was in N.C. What a drive it was!! I had the competition brake pads of a modified '03 Mini Cooper S fading and billowing smoke when I finished! Glad I didn't have the 308 down there or I might have gotten hurt. Have you (or any other reader) had the opportunity to run the Tail of the Dragon??
Thanks,
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post #7 of 24 Old 11-29-2009, 07:47 PM
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Looks like Deales gap to me which is another name for the tail as I understand it.

Lane

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post #8 of 24 Old 11-29-2009, 08:35 PM
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Be looking to do my belts in the spring so apprecieate any tips you come along the way.

Capt. Pete
'79 308 GTS, '82 Jeep CJ7 Jamboree
"Time is what prevents everything from happening all at once."
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post #9 of 24 Old 12-02-2009, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Will do Pete. I'll keep you in mind as I do it, and see if anything needs to be added to the helpful sites already suggested above. It really doesn't look too bad and I'm grateful the whole motor doesn't need to be pulled. Looks a little more complicated and tedious than working on my 911S or Mini, but when I'm done I've got a Ferrari, not a Porsche or Mini, so like they say, "fair is fair".
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post #10 of 24 Old 12-03-2009, 03:02 AM
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Leland, you are correct,it's a pic from the Dragon. Wow, small world, i also have a 2003 Cooper S and have been doing the Dragon since 04'! Of course i only am about 2 1/2 hours from the place. Anyway, how's the belts and tensioners going? I need to do mine in the spring,actually before spring as i want to drive her in good weather!
Good luck!
Bill

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post #11 of 24 Old 12-03-2009, 03:45 AM
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Leland,

Critique the bearings supporting the cam belt drive gears very closely. Look for oil leaks behind those gears or play in any direction. The 2v cars had small bearings in that area and those are getting long in the tooth by this time.

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post #12 of 24 Old 12-03-2009, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehelms View Post
Leland,

Critique the bearings supporting the cam belt drive gears very closely. Look for oil leaks behind those gears or play in any direction. The 2v cars had small bearings in that area and those are getting long in the tooth by this time.

Dave

Does Hill engr. mfgr those bearings? I am not familiar with that engine, but thinking/hoping Hill will start to re-issue all bearings...ESPECIALLY the front wheel bearings like on my T

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post #13 of 24 Old 12-04-2009, 03:42 AM
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Does Hill engr. mfgr those bearings? I am not familiar with that engine, but thinking/hoping Hill will start to re-issue all bearings...ESPECIALLY the front wheel bearings like on my T

No, the belt drive bearings are available at any bearing house, too in expensive to warrant Paul looking at them.

The TR/T wheel bearings are something we are working on now...it wont be long and they will be affordable. I am hoping we will not see the same "bearing tax" we were burdened with back in the late 80's, early 90's. There was something like a 350% duty on imported bearings back then making a simple 330 front wheel bearing cost upwards of $400. We were calling them anything but bearings, anti-friction assy, easy glide platform.....in time customs caught on to them all. There are a number of us working on the same thing, one of us will find the solution. It is a big concern right now as we are relying on imported bearings for everything on these cars.

Brian Crall designed an absolutly brilliant method of packing those front bearings that he uses in house...now to get some bearings that warrant the effort to maintain. Daniel has a very good connection at SKF...one of us will break it loose or we will use a different bearing and sleeve it like we are doing on the Vintage Lamborghini's and Fiat Dino Spiders. Who cares if the bearings wear out in 10 years if they are only $40 new.

Last edited by davehelms; 12-04-2009 at 03:55 AM.
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post #14 of 24 Old 12-16-2009, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehelms View Post
No, the belt drive bearings are available at any bearing house, too in expensive to warrant Paul looking at them.

The TR/T wheel bearings are something we are working on now...it wont be long and they will be affordable. I am hoping we will not see the same "bearing tax" we were burdened with back in the late 80's, early 90's. There was something like a 350% duty on imported bearings back then making a simple 330 front wheel bearing cost upwards of $400. We were calling them anything but bearings, anti-friction assy, easy glide platform.....in time customs caught on to them all. There are a number of us working on the same thing, one of us will find the solution. It is a big concern right now as we are relying on imported bearings for everything on these cars.

Brian Crall designed an absolutly brilliant method of packing those front bearings that he uses in house...now to get some bearings that warrant the effort to maintain. Daniel has a very good connection at SKF...one of us will break it loose or we will use a different bearing and sleeve it like we are doing on the Vintage Lamborghini's and Fiat Dino Spiders. Who cares if the bearings wear out in 10 years if they are only $40 new.

The new 308/328/F40/BB Hill Engineering bearings will be available in Q1 of next year. They will cost a bit more than the SKF ones, but not be out in the stratosphere like 328/348/TR wheel bearings and such. They will be a Hill Engineering design and manufacture.


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post #15 of 24 Old 12-16-2009, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehelms View Post
No, the belt drive bearings are available at any bearing house, too in expensive to warrant Paul looking at them.

The TR/T wheel bearings are something we are working on now...it wont be long and they will be affordable. I am hoping we will not see the same "bearing tax" we were burdened with back in the late 80's, early 90's. There was something like a 350% duty on imported bearings back then making a simple 330 front wheel bearing cost upwards of $400. We were calling them anything but bearings, anti-friction assy, easy glide platform.....in time customs caught on to them all. There are a number of us working on the same thing, one of us will find the solution. It is a big concern right now as we are relying on imported bearings for everything on these cars.

Brian Crall designed an absolutly brilliant method of packing those front bearings that he uses in house...now to get some bearings that warrant the effort to maintain. Daniel has a very good connection at SKF...one of us will break it loose or we will use a different bearing and sleeve it like we are doing on the Vintage Lamborghini's and Fiat Dino Spiders. Who cares if the bearings wear out in 10 years if they are only $40 new.
Yes, Brian and Rob [who used to work for him but moved near my area--I'm in Sonoma and Rob in Petaluma, which Brian is San Ramon--only guy who'll handle my 456 from now on] both mention they perfected--more like Brian did--the bearing repacking and such. It would make it good to go for another xxx miles.

WOULD like your new approach. Perhaps doing the ol' 'paper-weight' approach would be a go against customs in this case?

heeheee

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post #16 of 24 Old 12-17-2009, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
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Yes, Brian and Rob [who used to work for him but moved near my area--I'm in Sonoma and Rob in Petaluma, which Brian is San Ramon--only guy who'll handle my 456 from now on] both mention they perfected--more like Brian did--the bearing repacking and such. It would make it good to go for another xxx miles.

WOULD like your new approach. Perhaps doing the ol' 'paper-weight' approach would be a go against customs in this case?

heeheee
There are some folks in this business that go a long ways to helping owners try to keep this affordable....Brian is one of the Poster Children for that cause, none better can be found than that guy. I am proud to call him a good friend. Some would be amased how much effort goes on behind the sceens towards that end.

Govmnt is too big now...too many people on the payroll looking for things to tax coming into the country. That is one of the reasons I moved ALL of my manufacturing to the US. The other being there will never be a quality question when someone has a job in this economy because of these small projects we are doing. Folks in manufacturing take that very personally these days! The will is there, we will find a way. Until then I just collect good used parts to buy us time. Now that Andrew is working on the Ad section, I will start posting the dust collection there for those in need.
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post #17 of 24 Old 12-17-2009, 10:53 AM
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look fwd to those postings. ME to -- just posted an ad to clear out the garage. Have many parts just taking up space....

Every time Brian finds fixes for my cars, I get a new box of parts...always ask him if he needs them first, as he has more uses for them than I.

Keep up the good work...

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post #18 of 24 Old 02-05-2010, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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I finally got around to replacing the belts & tensioner bearings. I used all the much appreciated advice, with special thanks to crazyhorse, neonzapper, bill ward, and dave helms. I would like to urge anyone who is thinking about doing it (that's you pete!) not to be intimidated by the process. I found the job to be straightforward, but very frustrating due to the tight quarters. I'd work on it until I either bruised my knuckles or banged my head, then I'd stop for the day. Birdman's pictures and simplified procedure gave me a much needed overview so I never really was at a loss regarding where I was in the process.
The car started instantly and runs like a top, and I can finally quit worrying about those darn belts and bearings. I originally decided to do the change because I heard a little bit of bearing whine when I first started the car. Turns out the bearing noise was coming from the AC belt tensioner pulley, which runs on two small sealed roller bearings--total cost of less than $40.
Almost as useful as birdman's pictures and procedure was his suggestion (from his website above) about getting a car lift. I second everything he said. After I finished the belt/bearing change I bought a 4-post electric over hydraulic car lift. I've got a 9'6" ceiling in my garage and now I can walk under the 308 standing up! Gives me a completely different attitude about working on the car and a great place to store it safely away from accidental damage. It was $1700, and a long-term investment, for sure, but I think it will be money very well spent.
Thanks again,
Leland
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-05-2010, 11:51 PM
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Good to hear you made out OK. I actually put a 2-post "clear floor" lift in my garage with 13' ceilings. Changed the front wheel bearing in my truck a couple of weeks ago. What a snap with that lift! So much better than jack-stands. The job was actually easy and fun.

The shop wanted $700 to do the job. I did it for $178. There's $500 towards the price of the lift.

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post #20 of 24 Old 02-06-2010, 09:40 AM
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Leland-
Glad to hear it went well. You're a better man than me, mine took all winter and because of big hands w/ Pop eye forearms, I had to enlist help of a smaller friend. Good mech-Tony, watched him sit in the engine bay of my Dodge diesel to change injector pump that I couldn't get close to. BTW I put in a 2 post car hoist when I built my garage and second only to heated floor was best investment I've made. You'll be amazed what use you'll get out of yours. I get down or over to Idaho on occasion-perhaps we can park our cars next to each other for pix- can't be too many of them up here. Bill
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