1960 Ferrari 400 Superamerica, what kind of model is that? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 11-02-2013, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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1960 Ferrari 400 Superamerica, what kind of model is that?

Hi guys!

I find this picture on the net and I would like to know if it was a special made (like all Superamerica) model because is very similar to the Lancia Flamminia coupe!

1960 Ferrari 400 Superamerica

Thx,
L.
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post #2 of 19 Old 11-02-2013, 10:08 AM
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Leot- The one in the photo is not a normal production 400 Superamerica. Here is a photo of what the norml Pininfarina built Superamericas looked like. This is a Series II LWB.

Note that because these were coach built, there are large numbers of one-off and limited production models on the 400 chassis.

The one in your photo was shown at the Geneva Auto Show in 1959 and is serial number 1517A. Full name is 400 Superamerica S1 Pininfarina Coupe Speciale.
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post #3 of 19 Old 11-03-2013, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank a lot!

I have to start studding all the special build Ferrari body’s in 50’ and 60’

I found also the GA car , which is similar (maybe because is the same coach builder Pinin Farina or. translated Farina junior ), but with different egine and chassis.


Ferrari 375 America PF per G Agnelli ant - F1Passion.it
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post #4 of 19 Old 11-03-2013, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Leot- The one in the photo is not a normal production 400 Superamerica. Here is a photo of what the norml Pininfarina built Superamericas looked like. This is a Series II LWB.
Hmm, don't quite agree about the use of the word "normal", nor the word "production". All of them were effectively handbuilt and one-offs, who may look similar but have individual details and specs. Even considering quite a number of them have the same body style, there were still 11 (!!) different versions of the 400 SA, of a total of 46 produced.

The one that Leot was asking about is the very first 400 Superamerica, built especially for (about to become) FIAT boss Giovanni Agnelli in 1959. It is chassisnumber 1517SA. The 400 Series was not a ongoing development of the earlier 410 SA but a new design, with a different engine, now the Colombo engine enlarged to 4 litres (one could say it should have been called a 330 SA).

The total listing is (source: Godfrey Eaton's 1984 book The Complete Ferrari, who in turn quotes A. Prunet):

Series I (2440mm wheelbase)
Special PF coupe for Agnelli: 1
PF Cabriolets: 5
PF Aerodinamico coupe': 12
PF Superfast II & IV: 1 (it was rebodied)
PF Superfast III: 1
PF Coupe' 2+2: 1
Scaglietti spyder: 1
Scaglietti berlinetta: 1

Series II (2600mm wheelbase)
PF Cabrio: 4
PF Aerodinamico coupe': 19


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post #5 of 19 Old 11-03-2013, 02:03 AM
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BTW, I can really recommend that book by Godfrey Eaton for getting into the early Ferraris, I really like it.


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post #6 of 19 Old 11-03-2013, 01:35 PM
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Onno- If you put all of them in a line, more will look like the Coupe Aerodinamico than any of the others, like 31 of 46. I think the sentence Note that because these were coach built, there are large numbers of one-off and limited production models on the 400 chassis. pretty much covered the rest.

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post #7 of 19 Old 11-03-2013, 11:09 PM
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Terry, I wasn't saying you were wrong, but I just feel that brushing aside the non-Aerodinamicos as "the rest" is not the way to tell the 400SA story. And like I said before, the Aerodinamicos may look similar but they are not identical. This was not clear from your posts.

Not here to upset you, just adding what I think are important distinctions.


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post #8 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hi guys,

hope not to mix up the topic to much…I read about this in one Italian article:
1951 Ferrari 212 MM Vignale Berlinetta Gallery Images - Ultimatecarpage.com

and I totally fall in love with the shape, but if I understand correct the car was after the MM modified in Vignale special front?
Yes JazzyO, thank you for the advice, I have to take the book by Godfrey Eaton…but is impossible to find it in our country. Can you suggest maybe an good Italian book about old Ferraris (a work that have the numbers and all the important technical content).

Thx!
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post #9 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 10:56 AM
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Leot- I actually prefer the earlier Touring Berlinettas, but the Vignale one does look more modern. Here is 0108E, a 212 Export Touring Berlinetta.
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post #10 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 08:30 PM
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Beautiful shapes, love the touring shape as well, Terry. Here my personal favorite....hence my name for the forum. Only 225cm wheelbase. 1951 212 Export winner of 1951 Morocco rally, 9th in Le Mans that year...
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post #11 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 08:38 PM
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212- Definitely looks like a factory hot rod with that short a wheelbase. Amazing how good that color blue (French racing?) can look. My first car was a 57 356A in just about exactly that color.

The Barchetta behind the 212 looks pretty good, too. Used to drool over John and Elaine Bond's (R&T) 166 Barchetta, and 195 Berlinetta, both by Touring, if memory serves me correctly. Could be off on the engine sizes.

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post #12 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
212- Definitely looks like a factory hot rod with that short a wheelbase. Amazing how good that color blue (French racing?) can look. My first car was a 57 356A in just about exactly that color.

The Barchetta behind the 212 looks pretty good, too. Used to drool over John and Elaine Bond's (R&T) 166 Barchetta, and 195 Berlinetta, both by Touring, if memory serves me correctly. Could be off on the engine sizes.
That 212 is a car who was delivered to Franco Cornacchia but loaned for racing and to be driven mainly by Jaques Perron, the French Gentleman Driver (hence the french racing colour). As said, this car has a wonderful racing pedigree in 1951 (1st. Rally Morocco, 9th. Le Mans and 2nd (!) Tour de France and 1st.Monthlery). I came 3 days late to know that the car was for sale just 30 kilometers from my home in a time when prices still were a fraction of today 11-12 years ago, but the car changed hands to germany and the price tag was 50% higher right away....and gone for me. Also that car came with tons of original papers and letters from Enzo Ferrari etc. Great car.

On the contrary the car in the background you mentioned could be a 195, which does not has such a clean history in respect to body etc. as the Peron 212 Export. I'm not sure on this totally but it could be the car I'm thinking of in that respect.

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post #13 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leot View Post
Yes JazzyO, thank you for the advice, I have to take the book by Godfrey Eaton…but is impossible to find it in our country. Can you suggest maybe an good Italian book about old Ferraris (a work that have the numbers and all the important technical content).

Thx!
I don't usually buy Italian language books on Ferrari. "Making the difference" is fantastic (about all the non-Pininfarina Ferraris), in Italian and English, by Anselmi and Massini, but I have to warn you that it is very expensive.

It should not be hard to get your hands on the Godfrey Eaton book - just buy it on Amazon or EBay (it is out of print - you cannot buy it new). Otherwise - take a trip to Maranello and visit the book store next to the "Cavallino" restaurant across the factory. They have a huge selection of Ferrari books there, in Italian and English.


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post #14 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you JazzyO! I have already been searching for Godfrey’s book (the "Making the difference" is around 250 euros), but the problems is to find a this book in EU. The shipping form U.S. is too expensive. I hope that the Godfrey’s book have all the data (technical and production information).

The 212 is not only a great looking car, but also the first important commercial Ferrari product for U.S. market. I do not know if 212 also mean the ccm of the single cylinder like the 250 series? However, I presume that that the 0108E is the serial number of the chassis?

Ferrari started the collaboration with the specialized coachbuilders, so he can focused more on the mechanical develop of the cars?
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post #15 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Leot View Post
Thank you JazzyO! I have already been searching for Godfrey’s book (the "Making the difference" is around 250 euros), but the problems is to find a this book in EU. The shipping form U.S. is too expensive. I hope that the Godfrey’s book have all the data (technical and production information).

The 212 is not only a great looking car, but also the first important commercial Ferrari product for U.S. market. I do not know if 212 also mean the ccm of the single cylinder like the 250 series? However, I presume that that the 0108E is the serial number of the chassis?

Ferrari started the collaboration with the specialized coachbuilders, so he can focused more on the mechanical develop of the cars?
Yes, 212 is the cubic displacement of each cylinder, however the Chassis number is NOT 0108 but 0096E.

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post #16 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
BTW, I can really recommend that book by Godfrey Eaton for getting into the early Ferraris, I really like it.


Onno
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Other suggestions for a library addition?

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post #17 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 06:21 PM
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212- He was talking about the black 212 I posted, and yes, 108E is the serial number denoting an export chassis, as is 0096E.

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post #18 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
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212- He was talking about the black 212 I posted, and yes, 108E is the serial number denoting an export chassis, as is 0096E.
Oh I'm sorry...missed that !

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post #19 of 19 Old 11-18-2013, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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thx guys for all the informations that I learn her.

I sill wander if mr.Ferrari started the collaboration with the specialized coachbuilders, so he can focused more on the mechanical develop of the cars or. It was more easy to producet just the mecanical part and let the bodywor to famouse coachbuilders
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