Vintage tires Pirelli Cinturato - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 06-25-2013, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Vintage tires Pirelli Cinturato

Hi

I would be interested in your opinions.

I think pre 69 Ferrari's fitted Pirelli Cinturato . Up untill 1964 they fitted either 185VR16 or 185VR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67

In 1964 Pirelli introduced a bigger tire the 205VR15 Pirelli Cinturato CN72 HS and it is because of this tyre cars like the 250GT 2+2 stopped fitting the 185VR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 when it changed to the 330 and started fitting 205VR15 CN72 Cinturato HS

Granted the early 50's cars that had 400mm Ferrari Borrani Wire Wheels fitted was probably to fit the Michelin X, because before the Cinturato came out in 1952, the Michelin X was the only radial tyre

I am not sure about the Ferrari 275 GTB . i know that the Michelin XWX is the only vintage tire for that car now and without doubt it is an excellent tyre. I believe that the full profile XWX was developed in 1966 so the 275 GTB tire 205VR14 Michelin XWX

what is well known is that low profile tyres like the 205/70VR14 tyre were not developed untill the end of 1968, and i don't believe Ferrari started useing them untill 1970. which is why if you see a 275 GTB fitting a 205/70VR14 it looks lost in the wheel arch, and a 250 GTE fitting a 185/70VR15 looks as wrong as a 500 SuperFast with a 205/70VR15.

So I believe that Ferrari in the 60's fitted either:
185VR16 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 for which there is no low profile equivalent.
185Vr15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 the low profile eqivalent would be 205/70VR15 Michelin XWX
205VR15 CN72 Pirelli Cinturato HS The more modern equivalent would be 215/70VR15 Michelin XWX

All these tyres are in current production. In my mind if you are going to fit a 70% low profile tyre of the 70's to upgrade a 60's car it just has to be Michelin XWX. because that is what the XWX is for. it was a tire development in the 60's designed to compliment the top notch cars of the day, And the 70% profile XWX was developed alongside these cars to improve the grip. fitting a tyre like the modern Pirelli P4000 will spoil the handling of such a car because it was developed in a different time. The P4000 is an excellent tyre and when they fitted them to XJ6 Jaguars in the 90's it was an appropriate upgrade to suit the subtle developments the car had gone through, so it would not compliment a car of the 60's.

(and they don't look right on a 60's car)

I would love to know your views
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post #2 of 10 Old 06-25-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougal View Post
Hi

I would be interested in your opinions.

I think pre 69 Ferrari's fitted Pirelli Cinturato . Up untill 1964 they fitted either 185VR16 or 185VR15 Pirelli Cinturato ™ CA67

In 1964 Pirelli introduced a bigger tire the 205VR15 Pirelli Cinturato ™ CN72 HS and it is because of this tyre cars like the 250GT 2+2 stopped fitting the 185VR15 Pirelli Cinturato ™ CA67 when it changed to the 330 and started fitting 205VR15 CN72 Cinturato HS

Granted the early 50's cars that had 400mm Ferrari Borrani Wire Wheels fitted was probably to fit the Michelin X, because before the Cinturato came out in 1952, the Michelin X was the only radial tyre

I am not sure about the Ferrari 275 GTB . i know that the Michelin XWX is the only vintage tire for that car now and without doubt it is an excellent tyre. I believe that the full profile XWX was developed in 1966 so the 275 GTB tire 205VR14 Michelin XWX

what is well known is that low profile tyres like the 205/70VR14 tyre were not developed untill the end of 1968, and i don't believe Ferrari started useing them untill 1970. which is why if you see a 275 GTB fitting a 205/70VR14 it looks lost in the wheel arch, and a 250 GTE fitting a 185/70VR15 looks as wrong as a 500 SuperFast with a 205/70VR15.

So I believe that Ferrari in the 60's fitted either:
185VR16 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 for which there is no low profile equivalent.
185Vr15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 the low profile eqivalent would be 205/70VR15 Michelin XWX
205VR15 CN72 Pirelli Cinturato HS The more modern equivalent would be 215/70VR15 Michelin XWX

All these tyres are in current production. In my mind if you are going to fit a 70% low profile tyre of the 70's to upgrade a 60's car it just has to be Michelin XWX. because that is what the XWX is for. it was a tire development in the 60's designed to compliment the top notch cars of the day, And the 70% profile XWX was developed alongside these cars to improve the grip. fitting a tyre like the modern Pirelli P4000 will spoil the handling of such a car because it was developed in a different time. The P4000 is an excellent tyre and when they fitted them to XJ6 Jaguars in the 90's it was an appropriate upgrade to suit the subtle developments the car had gone through, so it would not compliment a car of the 60's.

(and they don't look right on a 60's car)

I would love to know your views

I am not totally sure what the question is but I disagree with the statement of spoiling the cars handling.

None of the tires mentioned are the same tire as fitted in the day. They are modern look alikes of the original tires. None have gone without changes in compounds, cord materials etc. and all are improved over the originals.

The fact that all the tires are a vast improvement over what was available in their day and the fact that most vintage cars are inable due to their old chassis designs to really take advantage of modern rubber just pick a tire that in your opinion looks best on the car.

Last edited by Brian; 06-25-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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post #3 of 10 Old 10-08-2013, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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I don't agree. the period tyres made by Michelin and pirelli have a very differnt carcase shape with more rounded sidewalls than modern tyres. This improves their ability to absorb vibration. this vibration is now dealt with by more modern suspention. the footprint width of period tyres is the same as the car was designed to use making the car handle at it's best. more modern tyres will increase the foot print width which will make the car less progressive, more numb and with heavier steering.

However this is an argument that can go on for ever.

There is a special offer available for genuine period Ferrari tyres at present follow the link Youngtimer tires and shop for what you need. when you are in the shopping cart put the term " RubberGoods " in the discount codes and it will calculate you a good discount
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post #4 of 10 Old 07-23-2015, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Since my last post Pirelli have added some more tyres to this range

205/70VR15 Cinturato CN12 HS which isn't really a correct Ferrari tyre; but lots of cars like a 250 GTE that would have originally fitted 185VR15 Cinturato in the 60's would want to fit the new trendy low profile tyres in the 70's. and today lots of the early 60's Ferrari fit a 205/70VR15 instead of a 185VR15.

Pirelli have also re produced a 165HR15 CA67 Cinturato again not really a Ferrari size, but some of the really early road cars might like them.

The next plan is to get some 16" Cross ply tyres made. I can't see them being really what people want for road use, for the road you would fit 185VR16 CA67 Cinturato HS or 600WR16 Michelin Pilote X but the original cross ply 16" tyre that Ferrai used would be the Stella Bianchi. I hope to be gettting a small batch soon. If you want them, contact Longstone tyres.

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post #5 of 10 Old 07-25-2015, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougal View Post
Hi

I would be interested in your opinions......................what is well known is that low profile tyres like the 205/70VR14 tyre were not developed untill the end of 1968, and i don't believe Ferrari started useing them untill 1970................I would love to know your views
Dougal, this is not correct. I bought my 1967 330/365GTC #10581 from Luigi Chinetti's Chinetti Int'l in 1978. I just posted on your other thread the below photo. It was fitted with unique 15" wheels custom-forged by Campagnolo for Leopoldo Pirelli, C.E.O. of Pirelli and 215/70VR15 tires. All other GTC's, both 330s and 365s, were fitted with 14" wheels, either alloy or Borrani, and 205/70VR14 tires. 330GTC production began in 1966 so the tire had to be in production by then.

Note the very significant difference in the appearance of wheels and tires of my 365GTC and those of the 330GTC
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post #6 of 10 Old 07-25-2015, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougal View Post
Since my last post Pirelli have added some more tyres to this range

205/70VR15 Cinturato CN12 HS which isn't really a correct Ferrari tyre.............
a very correct Ferrari tire; it was supplied with the 330GT2+2

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris
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post #7 of 10 Old 07-28-2015, 06:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Dougal, this is not correct. I bought my 1967 330/365GTC #10581 from Luigi Chinetti's Chinetti Int'l in 1978. I just posted on your other thread the below photo. It was fitted with unique 15" wheels custom-forged by Campagnolo for Leopoldo Pirelli, C.E.O. of Pirelli and 215/70VR15 tires. All other GTC's, both 330s and 365s, were fitted with 14" wheels, either alloy or Borrani, and 205/70VR14 tires. 330GTC production began in 1966 so the tire had to be in production by then.

Note the very significant difference in the appearance of wheels and tires of my 365GTC and those of the 330GTC
I don't like to contradict people, but the 330 GTC did not fit 70% profile tyres. they weren't invented til 1968. This car fitted 205VR14 .

I do However wonder what make of tyres they fitted. I think the Michelin XWX came out in 1966 (though not in 70 profile until i think '69), but i wondered if some of these cars fitted 205VR14 Cinturato, and if so what tread pattern?

It would however make sense that a later car might fit a 215/70VR115 as that low profile tyre on a taller wheel; has almost the same diameter as a full profile 205VR14.

That is a lovely bit of history. I shall make a posting when/if Pirelli make these tyres, it would be great to have some pictures of your car with these tyres on. do you know when that was done? The 215/70VR15 CN12 Cinturato that we are having made came out in 1971. Pirelli did however make an earlier low profile tyre called a Cinturato CN36 which came out in 1969 and looked like this.



I don't as yet know if Pirelli ever made a 215/70VR15 in the CN36 tread pattern, I do know in 71 they made 215/70VR15 CN12 for Lamborghini, (and probably Ferrari too).

My guess is that when those 15" wheels were put on your car, it would have been one of the first cars to fit Pirelli's, hot out of the press, low profile tyres. A special car.
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post #8 of 10 Old 07-28-2015, 06:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by dougal View Post
Since my last post Pirelli have added some more tyres to this range


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Originally Posted by intrepid View Post
a very correct Ferrari tire; it was supplied with the 330GT2+2
Sorry again, The Ferrari 330 GT 2+2 definitely didn't fit 205/70VR15 CN12, the car is too early.

In 1964 Pirelli developed the knew extra large, extra high speed 205VR15 Pirelli Cinturato CN72 HS which became the tyre of choice for nearly all the top notch Italian cars that fitted 15" wheels

Last edited by dougal; 07-28-2015 at 06:11 AM. Reason: missed a bit
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post #9 of 10 Old 07-28-2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dougal View Post
I don't like to contradict people, but the 330 GTC did not fit 70% profile tyres. they weren't invented til 1968. This car fitted 205VR14 .

I do However wonder what make of tyres they fitted. I think the Michelin XWX came out in 1966 (though not in 70 profile until i think '69), but i wondered if some of these cars fitted 205VR14 Cinturato, and if so what tread pattern?

It would however make sense that a later car might fit a 215/70VR115 as that low profile tyre on a taller wheel; has almost the same diameter as a full profile 205VR14.

That is a lovely bit of history. I shall make a posting when/if Pirelli make these tyres, it would be great to have some pictures of your car with these tyres on. do you know when that was done? The 215/70VR15 CN12 Cinturato that we are having made came out in 1971. Pirelli did however make an earlier low profile tyre called a Cinturato CN36 which came out in 1969 and looked like this.



I don't as yet know if Pirelli ever made a 215/70VR15 in the CN36 tread pattern, I do know in 71 they made 215/70VR15 CN12 for Lamborghini, (and probably Ferrari too).

My guess is that when those 15" wheels were put on your car, it would have been one of the first cars to fit Pirelli's, hot out of the press, low profile tyres. A special car.
Thank you, Dougal. I may have misstated; by the time I bought my 365GTC in 1978 I recall that GTC's were routinely fitted with 205/70VR14 tires, usually Pirellis, occasionally Michelin XWX's. The 15" wheels on my car were ordered by Leopoldo Pirelli and I believe were fitted early on if not from new. In the photo in my post above, the GTC is wearing 215/70VR15 Pirellis. As to the tread pattern, I honestly don't recall. I do recall that years before, when racing my old 1956 TR3 I shed the awful Dunlop Gold Seals fitted from new and tried a set of the original Michelin X's. They turned out to be just too sticky, on hard corniering they would hold and hold then suddenly let go with little or not warning, very difficult to drift the car. I switched to Pirelli Stelvios that were just wonderful to race on. This was in the late 1950s.

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris

Last edited by intrepid; 07-28-2015 at 12:01 PM.
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post #10 of 10 Old 07-30-2015, 02:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hi

A GTC should fit a 205VR14, The 205/70VR14 is a Dino tyre and a lot smaaller in diameter. In that the 205VR14 does not list an aspect ration (ie 70) that means it is in fact a 205/80VR14, which means the side wall height will be 80% of 205mm (ie 164mm therefore 6.5") and a 205/70VR114 has a side wall that is 70% of 205mm there fore 143mm or 5.6"

It is interesting to know that most people fitted Pirelli https://www.cinturato.net/pirelli-classic-tyres . Can anyone remember which tread pattern they fitted

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