365 GTC/4 to buy or not to buy... - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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365 GTC/4 to buy or not to buy...

Currently I have a 360 spider (revvy V8), 1972 Maserati Indy (classic v8) and a Land Rover as a daily driver. I have been considering adding a V12 as a different type of car and was considering a 550/575/599.
The problem with this approach is that it then leaves me with 4 cars. 4 lots of servicing, tax etc. but more importantly 4 cars to use enough so that they don't deteriorate.

As an alternative, and keeping to 3 cars I was looking at the 365 GTC/4. Partly budget and partly personal preference I prefer the GTC/4 to a Daytona. This would get the V12 aspect but would mean selling the Indy as it would be too similar to the GTC/4 to keep both (and back to the 4 cars problem)

So in general I would appreciate people's thoughts or perhaps alternatives.

Specifically, Rardley have a 365 GTC/4 for sale at the moment. This car has had an engine change and has an engine from a 365 GT4 2+2, otherwise it's seems good at first glance, so specifically:
As the engine is the same series, does the engine change matter?
What are Rardley like to deal with
Anyone know the GTC/4 - it's number 16227?
Who, in the south of the UK can do a PPI on a GTC/4
Who would you recommend for servicing.
Advice is always not to buy the first car you see, but with such a rare car how to you avoid it. I can only find one RHD car for sale

Sorry for the long post but your help and advice would be appreciated.

Jem
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post #2 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 11:41 AM
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Hey Jem
Been sitting on the other side of the Irish sea for quite some time pondering the same conundrum (but in an even more restricted F car market). 360 (V8), Dino 308 (classic), Maser QP (DD), R.Rover (family). What have I been missing? - the V12 as well!

Must admit that adding another car aside from actual space problems did raise the issue of 'how many is enough' as well (very kindly pointed out by Mrs B ).

Still I'm thinking that the garage might not be complete without a V12 somewhere in there. I've no absolute answer to this conundrum, though I think if I were in the UK I'd buy a 550 in a flash - there's a lot around at very very good prices now. A V12 classic would be just wonderful as well (you can see where I'm going here...)

Never bought a car from Rardley but nearly did when I was looking for the Dino, and I found them very good to deal with and even received a couple of follow up calls afterwards to see if I had fared well with my search and acquisition. I think they have a fairly good reputation, but I am sure others who have actually purchased will offer a more complete opinion on that.

So no specific answers from this quarter, but a problem shared and all that...

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The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #3 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 12:44 PM
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Jem- Just make sure you have someone competent to service the GTC/4, because they are more of a pain than a Daytona for routine service. The carbs and intake manifolds have to be removed for adjusting valve clearances and the distributor(s) are buried under the cowl. The good news is that completed bodies and interiors for the GTC/4 were done at Pininfarina, so workmanship tends to be higher than for the Scaglietti built Daytonas.

The engines on the GT4 2+2 and the GTC/4 are virtually identical, so it is up to you to decide whether the value is affected too much. GTC/4s have finally started to appreciate, like the 365 GT 2+2.

Taz
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post #4 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 12:56 PM
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Mike Lester at Rardley is a great mechanic, used him for many years. Very good in particular with older V12's.

PS. Sorry we didn't get to chat much the other night Jem.
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post #5 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 01:27 PM
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Couple of quick comments:

- Mike Wheeler has a good reputation
- I would not touch that 365 GTC/4
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post #6 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 02:54 PM
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The engine from the 365 GT2+2 is, although related, quite different from the GTC/4's. I would never touch a classic Ferrari with such a change in engine spec, myself.

As a general comment, the GTC/4 is a lovely car and it is certainly worth looking out for a decent one. I would take my time and only commit once I found a good one. Remember - they are undervalued, and as such the difference in price between a dodgy and a good one is not that large, so it is worth holding out for the right car to come along.


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post #7 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 07:45 PM
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Onno- The 365 GT4 2+2 has almost exactly the same DOHC engine as the 365 GTC/4. We were not talking about the SOHC 365 GT 2+2 with an upsized version of your GTC's engine. Would not fit, most likely, because of the downdraft carbs. The sidedrafts on the GTC/4 were designed to lower the hood line for Pininfarina's design.

Taz
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post #8 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 08:31 PM
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Jem,

I'm with Boxer, I can't see a reason to buy a re-engined car like that.

Given your current lineup, I think a 550 is a better fit for a V12. Very reliable, near fully depreciated, and a nce riding GT cruiser.

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post #9 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Onno- The 365 GT4 2+2 has almost exactly the same DOHC engine as the 365 GTC/4. We were not talking about the SOHC 365 GT 2+2 with an upsized version of your GTC's engine. Would not fit, most likely, because of the downdraft carbs. The sidedrafts on the GTC/4 were designed to lower the hood line for Pininfarina's design.
Ah sorry, Taz, I didn't think of the predecessor of the 400i which does indeed have practically the same engine as the GTC/4. Too many 365 models...

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post #10 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,
thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry View Post
Must admit that adding another car aside from actual space problems did raise the issue of 'how many is enough' as well (very kindly pointed out by Mrs B ).
Barry, I'm like you and can make the problem worse as I really like 80s Aston V8 Vantages but cant rationalise having one in addition to other cars. I would have thought the exhaust on your 360 was loud enough to drown out any complaints about too many cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgt View Post
. Sorry we didn't get to chat much the other night Jem.
Good to see you, have to catch up more next time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
- I would not touch that 365 GTC/4
Because of the engine change or something else

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
Given your current lineup, I think a 550 is a better fit for a V12. Very reliable, near fully depreciated, and a nce riding GT cruiser.
Certainly an easier car to find and probably a more sensible choice (if adding another Ferrari to the list of cars can possibly count as sensible)
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post #11 of 49 Old 01-04-2013, 11:38 PM
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Jem, great to hear about your problems ! I would skip that car. Yes, engine "non-originality" in a world were availabilty for the same model with "correct" specs is there, is my main argument.

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post #12 of 49 Old 01-05-2013, 02:37 AM
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Funnily enough Jem, my first post on FerrariLife in 2007 was on whether to go for a 365 GTC/4 or a 550. Back then their prices were more or less equal at circa 90,000. Since then the GTC/4 prices have held fairly static while those for the 550 have dropped further.

The 550 is in spirit and execution a modern version of the classic V12 berlinettas with transaxle, 2 seats and big V12 up front. The GTC/4 is closer to the 2+2s with gearbox in front and occasional rear seats. History shows that the berlinettas fetch more than the 2+2s. A 550 at little more than half price of a GTC/4 represents at brilliant deal to me.

However a Ferrari should be less about the head (just enough for the budget and man maths, which the 550 excels at in my humble estimation), and more about the heart, the passion. This is purely subjective and there is no one right answer. Both the GTC/4 and the 550 are beautiful magnificent Ferraris. The question is while you are preoared to give up the Maserati Indy up for the GTC/4, are you prepared to do the same for the 550?

I put my money where my mouth is and went for the 550. Part of the fun of waiting for 6 months before I collect mine and drive her for the first time, is the anticipation. The more I read about the 550, look at the pictures of my bluebird and remember the times I drive agp22 and Onno's 550s, the stronger my passion for the 550 grows.

Of course with the 550 you will be able to keep Rachel honest in her fearsome Murcielago!

David

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post #13 of 49 Old 01-05-2013, 04:18 AM
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I have had the good fortune of putting a lot of miles on a good friend's C/4. It is a surreal driving experience, particularly going though a tunnel w/ the windows open @ 5500rpm; a religious experience. It is rarer than the Daytona w/ significantly fewer cars made - I believe the stock brakes are also much better than the Daytona stock brakes. I think the business about the difficulty of the valve adjustment job has gotten a little overblown over the years - with as few miles as these cars get driven anymore, do it once (and service the carbs while your'e at it), and then leave it alone!

As with any vintage Ferrari, buy the best one you possibly can. There are generally a lot of deferred maintenance issues w/ these great cars since they were "unloved" by the market for so long.
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post #14 of 49 Old 01-05-2013, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitalone View Post
The more I read about the 550, look at the pictures of my bluebird and remember the times I drive agp22 and Onno's 550s, the stronger my passion for the 550 grows.
It is a slow burner, no doubt about it. A car that just gets better as you drive it more.

But it is not a competitor to the GTC/4 in my mind. 20 years of difference in technology makes them very different cars. You should decide whether you want classical or more modern, Jem. The GTC/4 is wonderful, real presence on the road and stupendous engine. But it is a classic Ferrari, and as such not comparable to a 550. It needs much more babying. It will reward you in other ways than a 550 would.


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post #15 of 49 Old 01-05-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemt View Post

Because of the engine change or something else
)
The fact that it is not correct type of engine for a 365 GTC/4 would be no go from my end. If it was a replacement engine and had a clear story as to why, might be a different situation.
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post #16 of 49 Old 01-11-2013, 09:49 PM
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Good friends of mine who have or have had some very 'serious' Ferraris speak well of Rardley from experience over several decades, and my own experience (in terms of quality, time and cost) with work done on my Daytona was very good. Anthony Moody
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post #17 of 49 Old 01-11-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony moody View Post
Good friends of mine who have or have had some very 'serious' Ferraris speak well of Rardley from experience over several decades, and my own experience (in terms of quality, time and cost) with work done on my Daytona was very good. Anthony Moody
Welcome to FerrariLife.

was it your Daytona that was featured in the Top Gear episode a few years ago (drive to Monaco)?
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post #18 of 49 Old 01-12-2013, 01:48 PM
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Answers, well at least two

The model GTC4 is in my opinion a very beautiful and stylish car. And one I've been looking to get for some time. But with only 31 RHD examples made, there pretty scarce in the UK. I test drove the car you mention last week and it drove very well. Mike Wheeler is extremely knowledgeable and all my dealings with him have been very good. ( I bought a car from him last year )
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post #19 of 49 Old 01-13-2013, 12:09 AM
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Do it, but be patient and buy a good one or be prepared to pour in $$$$$ I would not buy a classic with a swapped engine either, will always be a hard sell later. Here's mine with recently fitted 9" wheels to the rear. Gives it a more brutish look

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post #20 of 49 Old 01-13-2013, 06:20 AM
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Wonderful looking car Greg. I recall seeing the photos when you got it. Super nice with the wheels now though.
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