Daytona "A" ; Facts versus wishful thinking - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 58 Old 01-26-2012, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Daytona "A" ; Facts versus wishful thinking

Dear friends

I've called Marcel Massini to have a "final" answer about all those "noises" occuring from every potential dealer/seller regarding the Daytona "A" suffix since several years.
He sent me the prepared comment which will answer most of the questions arising regarding the "A" suffix. I also have to admit that the information given to me is much more detailed I ever expected and by way much more than the answers provided in Gerald Roush's book "Daytona". I would like to thank Marcel's for his kind permission to publish his comment here!:

Ferrari 365 GTB/4 and 365 GTB/4A

In the beginning there were only Euro model 365 GTB/4.

So for the first series of Euro cars, as per the Italian homologation papers for the 365 GTB/4 the early Euro model 365 GTB/4 was homologated by the Ministero dei Transporti del Aviazone Civile - Direzione Generale Motorizzazione M.C.T.C on Nov. 3, 1969, with certificate 7230 OM. According to this document the stamping is 365 GTB/4 *00000* with the addition of DGM 7230 OM (DGM = Direzione Generale Motorizzazione).

And then we go on to Euro model pop-up light cars starting on June 19, 1971 there was an addition to this homologation (for European cars) concerning the pop-up lights and the single reverse light. These Daytona's are named 365 GTB/4-A and the homologation starts with chassis #14175 (Rosso Rubino 106-R-12, leather Rosso 101. Assembly sequence #451, factory completion date 26th February 1971). Accordingly the stamping is 365 GTB/4-A *00000* DGM 7230 OM.

The last page of this document is the "Dichiarazione di Conformita" with which Ferrari confirms that the vehicle is homologated with the Certificate 7230 OM and they list the type and series (tipo e serie) as 365/GTB4 (x).

So... a Euro car with pop-up headlights and a centered back up light, that's it!

So all Euro cars up to s/n 14175 were covered headlights when new.

All Euro cars starting with s/n 14175 have pop-up lights and two reverse lights under the rear bumpers. Only the US version had a single centred back-up light.

No different cams, no different carbs, no different rear gears, no more power, NOTHING!

And then we have the USA cars starting with s/n 13361 which was the prototype USA version Daytona, and therefore had pop-up lights.

S/n 13893 was the first production USA version Daytona, so pop-up headlights as all USA Daytona's had pop-up headlights.

The "A" cars and indeed all Euro cars have about 15hp - 25 hp more than a US Daytona, because the US Daytona has a smaller inside diameter (and very restrictive) exhaust header.

The US version had heads 1 mm. higher than the european version, so a slightly different compression ratio.

Present: 365 GTB/4, Scud
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post #2 of 58 Old 01-27-2012, 06:35 AM
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And on the seventh day, Marcel rested.


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post #3 of 58 Old 01-27-2012, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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I only tried to find ways to increase the knowledge of the forum regarding the often heard question about that. But never mind.

Present: 365 GTB/4, Scud
Past: 250 GTE, 250 PF (2), 275 GTBsn, 330 GTC, 456GT, 550, 360Stradale, 430Scuderia, F40, F50
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post #4 of 58 Old 01-27-2012, 10:01 AM
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212- Thanks. A much more complete description than what I wrote here.

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/174415-post2.html

Taz
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post #5 of 58 Old 01-27-2012, 10:37 AM
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Thank you 212 for posting this detailed information.

Thank you to Marcel for allowing his information to be used.

Jeff
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post #6 of 58 Old 01-27-2012, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 212Export View Post
All Euro cars starting with s/n 14175 have pop-up lights and two reverse lights under the rear bumpers. Only the US version had a single centred back-up light.

No different cams, no different carbs, no different rear gears, no more power, NOTHING!
.
Many thanks to Marcel for allowing this to be posted.



One correction though, US cars have slightly less drag and cleaner rear underbody air flow ..... the one back up light vs the Euro two
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post #7 of 58 Old 01-27-2012, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
Many thanks to Marcel for allowing this to be posted.



One correction though, US cars have slightly less drag and cleaner rear underbody air flow ..... the one back up light vs the Euro two
+1

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post #8 of 58 Old 01-29-2012, 08:00 AM
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212 thank you for taking the time to shed light on this question and my thanks to Marcel for assisting us to increase our intimate knowledge of these magnificent works of art.

Have you or he come across the A etched on the side glass before?
Is there any significance to it?
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post #9 of 58 Old 01-29-2012, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1exander View Post
212 thank you for taking the time to shed light on this question and my thanks to Marcel for assisting us to increase our intimate knowledge of these magnificent works of art.

Have you or he come across the A etched on the side glass before?
Is there any significance to it?
Its seems to be a Saint Gobain related sign (the glass producer). Marcel hinted to the same, but I formyself can not tell for sure. Sorry.

Present: 365 GTB/4, Scud
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post #10 of 58 Old 01-29-2012, 02:05 PM
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I am also pretty sure it is related to the original glass manufacturer, it also shows in original Boxer windows.


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post #11 of 58 Old 01-29-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
I am also pretty sure it is related to the original glass manufacturer, it also shows in original Boxer windows.


Onno
Onno would that be the 365 era Boxers as the BBi does not have the etchings.
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post #12 of 58 Old 01-29-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
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Onno would that be the 365 era Boxers as the BBi does not have the etchings.
Yes, perhaps the early 512BB's as well. I'll see if I can find some pics.


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post #13 of 58 Old 03-09-2012, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
I am also pretty sure it is related to the original glass manufacturer, it also shows in original Boxer windows.

Onno
Also found on my 73 Dino, Saint Gobain glass
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post #14 of 58 Old 03-09-2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SCM246 View Post
Also found on my 73 Dino, Saint Gobain glass
Can you post a picture please?
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post #15 of 58 Old 03-09-2012, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SCM246 View Post
Also found on my 73 Dino, Saint Gobain glass
And my 77 308 GT4

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post #16 of 58 Old 03-10-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1exander View Post
212 thank you for taking the time to shed light on this question and my thanks to Marcel for assisting us to increase our intimate knowledge of these magnificent works of art.

Have you or he come across the A etched on the side glass before?
Is there any significance to it?
This is the "A" Alexander was asking about.
SCM246 and Barry. Do you have this markings on your car guys ?
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Last edited by wheels1; 03-11-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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post #17 of 58 Old 02-18-2013, 12:11 AM
 
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Maybe this has been answered, but I'm confused. in the text of Marcel's comments, it says,
"there was an addition to this homologation (for European cars) concerning the pop-up lights and the single reverse light. These Daytona's are named 365 GTB/4-A and the homologation starts with chassis #14175"

This is followed by,
"
So...a Euro car with pop-up headlights and a centered back up light, that's it!"

But then the confusion comes when further down it says,
"
All Euro cars starting with s/n 14175 have pop-up lights and two reverse lights under the rear bumpers. Only the US version had a single centred back-up light."

Can someone clarify?
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post #18 of 58 Old 02-18-2013, 12:51 AM
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USA car with back up light, Euro car with reversing light's
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post #19 of 58 Old 02-25-2013, 04:16 PM
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i will try to post what i have learned. anyone is free to make suggestions.
it will be easier if we ignore the usa daytona version for now. just considering the euro daytonas.
consider two categories:
1-early euro daytona
- plexi nose
- aluminum doors
- 2 reverse backup lights
2- late euro daytona
- pop up headlights
- steel doors with internal reinforcement
- single centered backup light
now to consider the usa daytona version. these are the brief differences between usa and euro daytonas
1-usa daytona
-pop up headlights
-steel doors
- single centered backup light
- smog pump
- more restrictive exhaust
- different carb jetting
- lower compression ratio due to heads being thicker, possibly for the air injector pump nozzles
there are also slight differences between early and late daytonas but not really worth mentioning.
i suspect that many anecdotes of the euro daytona being faster may be due to the fact that:
1- less restrictive exhaust
2- higher compression ratio
3- many euro cars lack the weight of the smog equipment, air conditioning and steel doors.
this is a very brief description as there is a ton of minutia not listed.
hope this helped.
ed
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post #20 of 58 Old 02-25-2013, 08:14 PM
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Ed- Air conditioning was standard on all Daytonas, was it not?

Taz
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