Expert help needed to identify a Daytona. - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-24-2012, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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Expert help needed to identify a Daytona.

Please explain to me what the difference between a 365GTB4 and a 365GTB/4A is.

In addition the car has all its side glass marked with a capital A.

Chassis Number on this particular car is 16511 and engine number is 22921.
The manufacturers plate is clearly marked as 365GTB/4A
(this is the sister car to the "exhaust BB"

I shall post pics of the side glass later.
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-24-2012, 07:43 AM
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Peter- Ferrari identified the American style flip up lights on Euro Daytonas with an A suffix. Gerald Roush speculated it was some sort of souped up version of the GTB/4 in early editions of the FML, but recanted and his Daytona book explained it correctly.

Sorry, nothing very romantic.

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post #3 of 24 Old 01-24-2012, 09:08 AM
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Engine number seems from '77 - '78 (if it matches a chassis number, like classic Ferraris should do). Could this be from a 400i? I can't think of any other V12's from that period.


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post #4 of 24 Old 01-24-2012, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
Engine number seems from '77 - '78 (if it matches a chassis number, like classic Ferraris should do). Could this be from a 400i? I can't think of any other V12's from that period.


Onno
Onno this is the Daytona which was pictured next to the "exhaust BB".

I took the numbers of the licence disc....as far as is recorded this is a matching numbers car. Car first registered in SA in 1971 so it could well be a 1970 car.
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-24-2012, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Peter- Ferrari identified the American style flip up lights on Euro Daytonas with an A suffix. Gerald Roush speculated it was some sort of souped up version of the GTB/4 in early editions of the FML, but recanted and his Daytona book explained it correctly.

Sorry, nothing very romantic.
Terry thank you for the info.....it seems peculiar that the factory would etch the letter A on the glass?
First time I have seen it on a South African Daytona.
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-24-2012, 11:22 AM
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Peter- No idea why they would put the A on the glass, too, unless there was originally a difference between US spec glass and Euro glass and they eventually went to one type of glass for all the Daytonas, like they did for the headlights.

All the Daytonas I have seen had matching engine numbers. Not sure how much architecture similarity there is between the Daytona's Type 251 engine and, say, a 400's Type F101C . Always possible Ferrari made a new engine, but they usually stamped the original engine number on the block.

Ask Marcel Massini. He has a data base on all the Daytonas.
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-26-2012, 10:22 AM
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Hi Peter.
Very early Daytona's had matching engine numbers to chassis numbers. Ferrari changed to a different system, I am not sure exactly when, but 14383 has an engine number of B1174 which is an early car.

Your car 16511 and engine number is 22921 should be a 72/73 car.

The engine number should start with a B so it might be B2921. If so this still seems not quite right to me. [ but you never can be sure with Ferrari].
My car is 16611 and the engine number is B2374 and they go very roughly in order.
This is some info i posted on another site:-
16915 is B 2754
16611 is B 2374 my car
16531 is B 2321
16333 is B 2078
15671 is B 1642
14539 is B 1246
14383 is B 1174

If you have any other info on this car or a photo that would be great. All i have on my data base is that it is a RHD car.
Grant
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-26-2012, 01:15 PM
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Grant- Great info. Mine was 14009 and still matched. I think. Long time ago.

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post #9 of 24 Old 01-26-2012, 10:37 PM
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There was never a "matching" Daytona engine/chassis correlation. Also not on the very early production.
The early production Daytonas had a "B" followed by a 1 to 2 digit number and then up to a 4 digit number very soon (as mentioned else before). The folio di montaggio actually is the only feature to "prove" the matching correclation between normal chassis number and "special" B ???? number. For those unable to find out about their cars, any classiche certification will relate to the factory internal numbers known and hence rate a engine as "original" or "replaced".
Also, every Daytona has a internal Scaglietti body number. It is sometimes possible to find some interesting stories about damaged or replaced major parts by correlation of those numbers over the chassis and engine number.

Classiche certification will give you a free mind in that case. Much cheaper and faster will be a report from Marcel Massini.

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post #10 of 24 Old 01-26-2012, 11:25 PM
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In addition, please see the comment on my new thread "Daytona "A"; facts versus wishful thinking ?"

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post #11 of 24 Old 01-27-2012, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
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There was never a "matching" Daytona engine/chassis correlation.
Interesting! It seems the Daytona was the first to have this relation changed? The following Boxer's certainly never had the chassisnumber on the engine. I wonder why Enzo changed that - perhaps to have more flexibility? We know that the engines were produced by Ferrari and the chassis (of the Boxer at least) by Scaglietti, and chassisnumbers were often not properly sequential. It may just have been easier for each to have their own number.


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post #12 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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My apologies it appears that I may have confused the issue by using the word "matching".

What I meant is that the original first time registration papers on the car and its books have the same engine and chassis numbers.
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post #13 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 08:15 PM
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212- So in the photo above, B96 is the engine number and 12481 is just another chassis stamping? I misread that one.

We already established the A stands for American style headlights and Marcel says the back-up lights were different, too.

Taz
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post #14 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1exander View Post
Onno this is the Daytona which was pictured next to the "exhaust BB".

I took the numbers of the licence disc....as far as is recorded this is a matching numbers car. Car first registered in SA in 1971 so it could well be a 1970 car.
Peter.
Please can you tell me where i can find this picture? If you have a picture of the car and one of the engine it should help id the cars year.

Ferrari UK registered the Daytona's with the DVLA, all having the chassis number the same as the engine number. I don't think the car in question came through the UK. Maybe SA did the same thing or maybe when Ferrari sent out the papers for the Daytona's, they came with the chassis number the same as the engine numbers?
Luckily for us in the UK it quite easy to rectify the log book with the correct chassis numbers.

Last edited by wheels1; 01-28-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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post #15 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 09:26 PM
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This is a photo of my engine number before restoration :- The Ferrari 251 is the engine type.
Grant
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post #16 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1exander View Post
Please explain to me what the difference between a 365GTB4 and a 365GTB/4A is.

In addition the car has all its side glass marked with a capital A.

I shall post pics of the side glass later.
Peter. The glass came with a S.Gobain with a Securit in a diamond logo from the factory. Could this diamond be worn to look like an A?
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post #17 of 24 Old 01-29-2012, 04:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels1 View Post
Peter. The glass came with a S.Gobain with a Securit in a diamond logo from the factory. Could this diamond be worn to look like an A?
No here is a series of As
On the rear glass it is etched at the left front corner and on the front window glass left top corner and then again the same for the Right side.
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post #18 of 24 Old 01-29-2012, 04:23 AM Thread Starter
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The chassis tag
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post #19 of 24 Old 01-29-2012, 04:24 AM Thread Starter
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The licence disc.
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post #20 of 24 Old 01-29-2012, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Peter.
Please can you tell me where i can find this picture? If you have a picture of the car and one of the engine it should help id the cars year.

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/bo...rbishment.html

a few pics mixed with the BB that we did exhausts on.

Thank you for taking the time.
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Last edited by a1exander; 01-29-2012 at 07:23 AM.
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