Daytona Spyder - real life input needed - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Daytona Spyder - real life input needed

Hello, newbie here. I live in the city in the wet Pacific Northwest, the only driving I do is the occasional weekend trip to another town, etc. I have had a lot of high power muscle cars and exotics. I like the power and driving experience of a fine car, the whole sensory experience, but do not like the attention they attract. That is NOT why I buy great cars. The last exotic I had was a Ford GT, which was excellent to drive, but not so great to live with (doors made parking very problematic, car attracted way too many idiots, no trunk!).

Like probably every other aficionado on the planet, I have always liked the Daytona Spyder. A few years a go I drove a Daytona coupe that was in need of repair, and the experience was not good, I'm not sure how reflective it might have been of a properly maintained car, but the steering was very heavy, felt like the steering rack was almost seized, and the clutch was heavy, transmission very heavy making shifts verrrry slow, the air conditioning really did not do anything to deflect the summer heat,etc. I did have a Maserati Ghibli spyder a few years ago and the climate system on that was a complete joke even after I had it serviced and re-charged, maybe it's a vintage Italian thing?

So gents, all glamor, nostalgia and romance aside, can you please share your real world experiences with these cars so that I can decide whether it is worth pursuing a good one? Also, who would you hire to fly wherever and authenticate /inspect a prospective car? How do you weigh in on the pros and cons of a spyder conversion versus an original spyder if one wants to actually drive it? If the new California was a better design I would just get it; and re the 599 I suppose it is better to wait for the coming replacement....

thanks in advance for your thoughts
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post #2 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 08:11 AM
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welcome: I am certain there are at least a handful of persons that can answer that question. BTW: Have you checked out the buyer's guides? They are very accurate IMO.

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post #3 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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welcome: I am certain there are at least a handful of persons that can answer that question. BTW: Have you checked out the buyer's guides? They are very accurate IMO.

rik

Thank you. No I have not seen any buyer's guides, where could I obtain them?
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post #4 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 09:16 AM
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Top Tab Called Articles

click on articles and then buyers guide. The Quarterly, which is now a yearly I guess, is good reading also.

I guess you have access to those..but not sure.
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post #5 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 09:45 AM
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Think you might need to be an Elite member to access those buyer guides.

Well worth the subscrption fee though.

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post #6 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 11:09 AM
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A wonderful car, but....

Presumably you realize original Daytona Spyders currently change hands well north of $1M (a million dollars) while cut spyders go for about the same as coupes in the same condition ($300K and up -- mostly up). Even though that's the kind of money you're looking at, you may find your earlier driving experience isn't too far off.

A well sorted Daytona has seriously heavy steering below about 30 mph and doesn't begin to feel light and nimble until 75-80. A properly functioning Daytona transaxle will generally shift easily (usual exception is into 2nd when cold) although the clutch is always stiff and heavy by any standard. Generally well balanced suspension although somewhat stiff and noisy at lower speeds. Most cut spyders won't drive as nice as originals because of chassis flexing, just like coupes always drive better than original spyders. Original a/c usually regarded as a joke but can be upgraded to adequate. By all accounts a lovely driving car at speed on the open road but not so much in town.

For comparison, a used 599 will cost considerably less than a cut spyder but be several orders of magnitude more comfortable, quieter, safer, more convenient & easier to drive, and way faster. The same could be said about used 550s and 575s except you can probably get 3-4 nice 550s for a cut spyder. With the possible exception of subjective personal aesthetic preference, the modern cars are vastly superior in every possible way. The modern spyder closest to a Daytona would be the 550 Barchetta, also way less expensive and far superior.

For qualified inspectors, Gary Bobileff in San Diego comes to mind and I'm sure there are others. Since any Daytona is now at least 40 years old, you would certainly want to have it inspected by a seriously qualified and experienced expert (like Bobileff) before purchase. They are wonderful cars in their own way but you definitely want to keep your eyes wide open when looking at them.

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post #7 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 11:56 AM
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Welcome to FL, RedRocket. It might help a bit if you give us more background of yourself and expectations in order to assess and make comments based on your expectations.

Owning and driving such mentioned "old and inferior" cars do require different values than the typical superior/better/faster/more comfortable ad naseum argument. There's a bit of paradigm shift necessary. What are your expectations ? Baed on that, it may take you a bit longer to find virtues in such cars. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #8 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. With the background I did post, I attempted to express the idea that I have a lot of experience with carbuerated cars, even Weber cars, and I know about wrenching, oil leaks, gasoline vapors etc. And tempermental/incompetent mechanics! Although I must say I don't have the setup to do any mechanical work myself nowadays. Otherwise - I am a professional investor.

Yes I have experience from The Era of cars when you absolutely needed a fire extinguisher! I see that some Daytonas have "upgraded" to power steering racks, although i have no experience with that and wonder if it is good as it sounds. I assume that a p.s. car would be much easier to drive at slower speeds.

As for expense, I know the original spyders escalated back in price a few years ago before 2008, and perhaps - on paper - they have kept those prices, but I wonder if they in real terms might go for far less than $1million. That said, I am not concerned about the purchase price, I am more concerned about the marginal changes in value back to where they were priced a few years ago, and the general liveability of such a car. IE, I don't want to be stupid about overpaying for a real spyder, which I view as way over-priced at $1 million. Honestly, I don't drive much now and need an excuse to go for a ride, although the drivers here are notoriously bad and one really has to have their foot near/on the brake pedal most of the time. One of the problems with new sportscars like the GT, F's, L's, etc is that - around here anyway - the cars are so low that people can't see them in their mirrors and so near-miss accidents would happen to me several times a day. That's why I drive an ML63 now! which is also a cool high power vehicle.

As for new Ferrari's, yes they're all good but I hate the drastic depreciation and frankly I don't think any of the new models are going to be classics. To me the rear of the modern cars are butt-ugly. How many will age gracefully, like the 250SWB, the 250 GTO, Lusso, 275GTB or Daytona?

What do I expect? Reasonable expectations about how impractical a DS is - but also I am thinking that to get one is to achieve a longheld lust for ownership of one of the world's most beautiful sports GTs, not for bragging rights or macho ego reasons, but just because isn't that why we all work so hard? For me it isn't the money, to hoard it, but to enjoy it after we have taken care of the more important things like family and community.

So just wondering if anyone cares to share their ups and downs with driving their Spyders in mostly sunny day siituations in a mildish climate where rain showers are inevitable. Thanks in advance

Last edited by Red Rocket; 03-10-2011 at 12:31 PM.
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post #9 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
click on articles and then buyers guide. The Quarterly, which is now a yearly I guess, is good reading also.

I guess you have access to those..but not sure.
Got it, thanks very much
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post #10 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Maybe I can ask another question. Has anyone ever tried to retrofit one the new style lighter effort clutches that supercars now come with? i.e. the ceramic clutches, or something similar?
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post #11 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 12:54 PM
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Thanx for the response, Red Rocket. I think I do have a better understanding now. Sounds good to me.

Before I bought my Daytona back in 2006, I was seriously considering a Daytona Spyder (conv.) too. I did my bit of researching and found one that looked good in Connecticut, whereupon I flew in from Japan to see the car in person. I usually do not that when I purchase a car. At the time, I was not very confident, thus the visit. It was a black/ tan US model. Cosmetic wise, it was very nice. The short drive around by the owner was impressive, but I felt mechanically it needed some sorting to do. His asking price back then was something like 260K or so. I did give some thoughts but decided to walk away, mainly because I felt I would not make the best use out of such a car. Few months later, the same car was on sale thru the AutoSports Design in Conn. or NY (???) for over 300K.

Anyway, my suggestion is to contact Mr. Michael Sheehan in LA and I am sure he can give you prudent advices. Back in the '80s he owned a decent size shop that did many conversions of Daytona. w/ smiles Jimmy

Last edited by Italian Lover; 03-10-2011 at 12:56 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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post #12 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanx for the response, Red Rocket. I think I do have a better understanding now. Sounds good to me.

Before I bought my Daytona back in 2006, I was seriously considering a Daytona Spyder (conv.) too. I did my bit of researching and found one that looked good in Connecticut, whereupon I flew in from Japan to see the car in person. I usually do not that when I purchase a car. At the time, I was not very confident, thus the visit. It was a black/ tan US model. Cosmetic wise, it was very nice. The short drive around by the owner was impressive, but I felt mechanically it needed some sorting to do. His asking price back then was something like 260K or so. I did give some thoughts but decided to walk away, mainly because I felt I would not make the best use out of such a car. Few months later, the same car was on sale thru the AutoSports Design in Conn. or NY (???) for over 300K.

Anyway, my suggestion is to contact Mr. Michael Sheehan in LA and I am sure he can give you prudent advices. Back in the '80s he owned a decent size shop that did many conversions of Daytona. w/ smiles Jimmy
Thanks Jimmy. I have heard of Mr. Sheehan. Was he at one time associated with Symbolic in La Jolla?
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post #13 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Presumably you realize original Daytona Spyders currently change hands well north of $1M (a million dollars) while cut spyders go for about the same as coupes in the same condition ($300K and up -- mostly up). Even though that's the kind of money you're looking at, you may find your earlier driving experience isn't too far off.

A well sorted Daytona has seriously heavy steering below about 30 mph and doesn't begin to feel light and nimble until 75-80. A properly functioning Daytona transaxle will generally shift easily (usual exception is into 2nd when cold) although the clutch is always stiff and heavy by any standard. Generally well balanced suspension although somewhat stiff and noisy at lower speeds. Most cut spyders won't drive as nice as originals because of chassis flexing, just like coupes always drive better than original spyders. Original a/c usually regarded as a joke but can be upgraded to adequate. By all accounts a lovely driving car at speed on the open road but not so much in town.

For comparison, a used 599 will cost considerably less than a cut spyder but be several orders of magnitude more comfortable, quieter, safer, more convenient & easier to drive, and way faster. The same could be said about used 550s and 575s except you can probably get 3-4 nice 550s for a cut spyder. With the possible exception of subjective personal aesthetic preference, the modern cars are vastly superior in every possible way. The modern spyder closest to a Daytona would be the 550 Barchetta, also way less expensive and far superior.

For qualified inspectors, Gary Bobileff in San Diego comes to mind and I'm sure there are others. Since any Daytona is now at least 40 years old, you would certainly want to have it inspected by a seriously qualified and experienced expert (like Bobileff) before purchase. They are wonderful cars in their own way but you definitely want to keep your eyes wide open when looking at them.
Much appreciated, thanks for the thoughtful response. Yes I do like the 550 Barchetta's although the fact (myth?) you can't drive fast with the top up is a deal breaker for me.

Honestly, for me, it would either be the new California or 599 replacement, or else a Daytona Spyder. I'm not considering anything else at all. I think I still have enough patience left for owning a 40-year old exotic, and my wife - God bless her - thinks the Daytona Spyder is one of the greatest cars of all time. But otherwise I just don't care enough about other cars to bother. I don't intend to do many track days, I have never needed to be the fastest or have the most expensive car on the street. I've been thru it all before, the positives and negatives of great cars, (and the bills!!!), and now I just want to enjoy a special car that enjoys a unique place in history. YMMV

Last edited by Red Rocket; 03-10-2011 at 02:01 PM.
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post #14 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 01:51 PM
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Thanks Jimmy. I have heard of Mr. Sheehan. Was he at one time associated with Symbolic in La Jolla?
I have met Mr. Sheehan a few times in person and chatted for few hours over lunch. I do have much respect for his vast knowledge and experience. I happen to enjoy him as an individual. I am sure he can give you sound advices as what to look for. I happen to feel he is honest and straighforward and there are enough brokers that are contrary to that. Probably, he remembers of me since we met last November when I was in LA. I hope to see him again next week when I fly in.

The fact that your wife has such a positive view of Daytona Spyder is good enough for me. Great taste and my compliments. If I were living back in LA or similar climate zone, I have no hestitation to acquire a Daytona Spyder conversion. Where I live, it just does not fit in well, as much as I like it.

Good luck with your search and hope you find the right one. All of us here (I'm sure) are willing to do what we can to help, Red Rocket. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #15 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 02:10 PM
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Thought I would add few scanned pics of the aformentioned Daytona in Conn. that I went to see. Sorry for the quality. They were scanned from pictures furnished. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #16 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cosmetically it looks very nice! I don't know how you could walk away without getting it, esp. at that price. You must be made of strong stuff!
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post #17 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 02:56 PM
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Cosmetically it looks very nice! I don't know how you could walk away without getting it, esp. at that price. You must be made of strong stuff!
Welllllllllllllllll,......Red Rocket, it was a very nice one. The owner was a meticulous person and he was honest and straightforward, no BS. As I mentoned earlier, my main reason to walk away was what I stated before. As for the price, the market at the time was such. I have no idea what it is now. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #18 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 04:08 PM
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can't add much to what camdon said. But i can second that the experience you had in the first one sounds about right. If you didn't like that...... I'm sure 212 will chime in soon, in the meantime, check out his recent thread "fled 5" about driving his through Switzerland and Italy.
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/el...-fled-5-a.html

and good luck on your ferrari purchase!



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post #19 of 45 Old 03-10-2011, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. The link wouldn't work for me.

I see the Reggie Jackson/Kneivel car chassis number 16835 went for $880,000 incl. premium, at RM a few months ago according to one website, so apparently spyder prices are well south of $1 mill. recently. That's in the right direction for buyers anyway.
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post #20 of 45 Old 03-11-2011, 02:18 AM
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A few comments:

- suggest you PM Wheels1 for his thoughts. His Daytona Spider is in the final stages of restoration.

- as you seem fairly flexible between modern and vintage, suggest you also consider an F50, similar money to the Daytona Spider, soft top is good to 70 mph based on personal experience, and it comes with a hard top you can fit for winter. Phenomenal car to drive.

- Mike Sheehan does have a relationship (or at least did) with Symbolic in La Jolla

- Oher suggestion if $$$ is not a major issue would be to consider a 275 NART Spider. Clutch, steering etc will be lighter than the DS.
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