330 GTC vs. 365 GTC - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 28 Old 01-15-2011, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
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330 GTC vs. 365 GTC

I have been quietly following the 330 GTC market for a while after being hugely impressed seeing JazzyO's magnificant 330 GTC carve up the Alps. Prices seem to have settled in the Euro 150-200k range depending on condition. Looking at the 365 GTC however, they seem to command a siginifanct premium over the earlier car. Other than a slightly larger engine, are their any other differences?
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post #2 of 28 Old 01-15-2011, 01:22 AM
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Go for the 365GTC, Boxer. The additional Euros' well worth it.

Visually, the most noticeable difference is the side vents behind the front fenders in 330, whereas the louvers situatied in the front bonnet, I believe. Engine capacity, of course bigger, build is better, only 170 or so were built (?), thus more rare, on and on.

Prior to my purchase of Daytona, I was looking for 330 GTC too, but did not find a suitable one then. The other sidenote was that the styling was a little too tame (subtle) for my taste (performance is not the only factor to consider), therefore I changed my search. I figured I can look again for either 330 or 365 when I am a lot older to enjoy their virtues and beauty.

Of course, this is none of my business, but seems like with the monster collections of yours, seems to me like these two are a bit too timid for your thirst for absolute power ? Good luck with your search, Boxer.
w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #3 of 28 Old 01-15-2011, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chen Shiba DDS View Post
Go for the 365GTC, Boxer. The additional Euros' well worth it.
I'd like to qualify this statement a bit more.

Someone who was much more qualified than I shall ever be commented on another forum yesterday "much rather go for an excellent 330GTC than a reasonable 365GTC". Obviously, as a 330GTC owner you need to take my view with a reasonable amount of salt, but I think there is much truth to the statement.

When all things are equal, and you have a perfect 365GTC and a perfect 330GTC then the 365GTC is preferable. But only by a small margin. The 365GTC is a great car, and it has a reasonable increase in power and torque over the the 330GTC, making it as quick as a Daytona to 100mph. But the 330GTC isn't far behind and everything else is the same apart from the side vents.

As for the styling, I think it is not age related and to suggest you're too young to buy a GTC is a bit, well, let's then just say that I'm an old soul because I love their styling and I'm "only" 40.

As for whether or not these cars fit Boxer's collection, I think only he can answer that - it's undoubtedly true that a GTC is very different from his current collection and it would fill a gap that is apparently a recent need.

But, FWIW, they are absolutely excellent driver's cars and if you are looking for a vintage Ferrari that is also practical, the GTC is your baby. About as reliable as a vintage Ferrari can be, with plenty of luggage space and great handling characteristics. And finally, it's sensibly priced.

Someone said that the principle fault of the GTC is that it ticks too many boxes, and I think that's very true. Because it is so easy to live with, and the styling isn't very radical, it doesn't inspire many people. And it was never raced, so that makes it undervalued. But the thinking man can turn this into his advantage.

I think these cars will increase in value as more and more people realise you're buying a 275GTB chassis with a torquier engine for much less money. And the 365 is then an even better bet for future value than the 330GTC.


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post #4 of 28 Old 01-16-2011, 04:45 AM
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Not being an owner of these models (yet), you must take my comment for what it is.

My prime feeling about the "gentleman's Ferraris" like the 330/365 GTC (and the 250 GTE!) is that it is ultracool to drive them when you actually are reasonably young. I really love them and I think they are just so beautiful because of their gentlemanly toned down elegance. These are cars I would like to use as classic daily drivers, particularly down town like to the gym, the grocery market, coffee & newspaper stops, etc. This respectfully casual use makes a man look like a megabundle of millions of Swiss Francs, with loads and loads of style to go with it. The classy girls will go absolutely mad and short out upon your arrival. That is my absolute conviction and trust me, I have a good feeling for such things. It's a gift I possess...

Here's a little curiosity I've noticed: Men and boys of all ages turn their heads ten times out of ten when passing in the 430 Spyder but not so often when I drive the 612. As it turns out, time and time again, women react totally on the contrary and seem to be very intrigued by the toned down elegancy and grand appearance of the 612. My conclusion is, any model of a "gentleman's Ferrari" should be part of every Ferrarista's collection.

It is our common mindset that a Ferrari has to be extreme in everything, particularly in design. We all seem to buy Ferraris in this category, and buy again and again and enjoy them immensly. I say add any of the 330/365 GTC models and it would make a very handsome contrast to your modern Ferraris and like in Boxer's case; with super-Ferraris as well.

Now to your question, Boxer. When I do my regular pondering of a 330/365 GTC purchase, sure I glance more at the 365 GTC. But I would personally not care which one of the two would turn out to be the "right" car to buy. If it's about performance, I'll just go for a brief ride in any of my other Ferraris and then straight back to looking like trillions of Swiss Francs in the GTC... Although chances are I'll buy the 250 GTE. It has put the hook in me even more.

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post #5 of 28 Old 01-16-2011, 07:11 AM
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@ Boxer: 330 GTC ! 365 GTC is rarer and torquier (drove both, owned one), but imo not worth the price difference, especially when thinking at the possible bulk of folks ready to make a bid in case of resale plans.

@ Capolino: Have been in Lugano in the Restaurant l'orologgio, that would be a great meet up on one of our next Fled's !
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post #6 of 28 Old 01-16-2011, 10:13 AM
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Capolino: Have been in Lugano in the Restaurant l'orologgio, that would be a great meet up on one of our next Fled's !
212!

L'orologgio is a great down town stopping since it is just opposite the big down town parking lot by the main post office. The parking lot has no reservation possibilities however and being smack in the centre it tends to be full at all times.

My personal suggestion for rounding up a few Ferraris in Lugano is my second home, Villa Principe Leopoldo. They have their own parking on the premises. The view from the terrazza galleria is spectacular. If you give me a little bit of time in advance I will speak to Sr. Speziale, the head waiter, to have the parking roundabout by the main entrance cleared for our day's play. That is a great spot for photographing all the cars together.

In case you're going there by yourself, please let Sr. Speziale know that you are a friend of the "balled Swede" and he will be extra delighted to cater for your needs. I mean it with all my heart.

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post #7 of 28 Old 01-16-2011, 11:36 AM
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Stayed at Lugano last November at the Leopoldo, must remember to ask my dear friends here before I go. Although I must say, the truffel risotto was really good! Next time, though, the Orologio!


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post #8 of 28 Old 01-16-2011, 03:53 PM
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Stayed at Lugano last November at the Leopoldo, must remember to ask my dear friends here before I go. Although I must say, the truffel risotto was really good! Next time, though, the Orologio!


Onno
Oohh, November and white truffle, well done! Congratulations on the risotto! If you ask before hand, they can do the suckling calf tartar with truffle and the Tournedos Rossini with white truffle instead of black truffle. I do like both restaurants though so please remember to ask for my whereabouts next time you sail by Lugano. I'd love to join for a bite to eat with you guys.

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post #9 of 28 Old 01-16-2011, 08:05 PM
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Thank you both for the suggestions !
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post #10 of 28 Old 01-16-2011, 08:15 PM
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I'll be coming to Brescia in March to test drive the Siata (if it is accepted for the Mille Miglia), so I'll probably come through Lugano again. I'll get in touch!


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post #11 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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@ Boxer: 330 GTC ! 365 GTC is rarer and torquier (drove both, owned one), but imo not worth the price difference, especially when thinking at the possible bulk of folks ready to make a bid in case of resale plans.

@ Capolino: Have been in Lugano in the Restaurant l'orologgio, that would be a great meet up on one of our next Fled's !
Bonhams has two coming up for auction:

Lot Details

Lot Details

any thoughts on either?
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post #12 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 12:25 AM
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+1 for the 365GTC for rarity

Quote:
Originally Posted by 212Export View Post
@ Boxer: 330 GTC ! 365 GTC is rarer and torquier (drove both, owned one), but imo not worth the price difference, especially when thinking at the possible bulk of folks ready to make a bid in case of resale plans.

@ Capolino: Have been in Lugano in the Restaurant l'orologgio, that would be a great meet up on one of our next Fled's !
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post #13 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 12:51 AM
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If you want to buy from owners rather than dealers, then Gilpatrick's 330 Register has a free Sell/Buy webpage you can advertize on
330 Register - Ferrari 330s For Sale


Even if you don't use the Buy/Sell page, the Register should be your first stop in checking out the history of any 330 prior to purchase.
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post #14 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SCM246 View Post
If you want to buy from owners rather than dealers, then Gilpatrick's 330 Register has a free Sell/Buy webpage you can advertize on
330 Register - Ferrari 330s For Sale


Even if you don't use the Buy/Sell page, the Register should be your first stop in checking out the history of any 330 prior to purchase.
There's a sage advice, SCM246. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #15 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 04:23 AM
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Sorry for the temporary hijack of your thread, Boxer, but I wanted to make a comment to the guys in the Continent. All those chatting by you guys are simply most entertaining for someone like myself, who longs for an extended trip to the other side of the gaia. Now back to the thread, I would pick the blue one just for the color and price, Boxer. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #16 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 05:16 AM
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For me it would boil down more to availability of these rare tipo's on the market, condition and recent maintenance history rather than 330 vs 365. I prefer the looks of the former with the classic air outlets on the flanks and this preference would be balanced out by the extra power (20hp?) and torque of the latter.

After driving JazzyO's magnificent 330 GTC that must be one of the best examples in the world, both in driving and in appearance, I have seen how important top condition is to enjoy this sublime beauty.
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post #17 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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If you want to buy from owners rather than dealers, then Gilpatrick's 330 Register has a free Sell/Buy webpage you can advertize on
330 Register - Ferrari 330s For Sale


Even if you don't use the Buy/Sell page, the Register should be your first stop in checking out the history of any 330 prior to purchase.

Excellent tip. I will check out the 330 Register.
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post #18 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 11:58 AM
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Bonhams has two coming up for auction:

Lot Details

Lot Details

any thoughts on either?

No opinion. No meaningful shoths from the underside or details from anywhere. No way to judge. If you are seriously on a 330 GTC, I would advise you to try to find a excellent late example (chassis # > 10500). In the development history of the type have been some meaningful changes over the course of the production line.

- From chassis # 9989 the fuel line has been changed due to getting to hot and vaporizing.
-Also the braking servo was initially a Dunlop C84 unit but was succeeded by an additional Bonaldi type 18172 unit in December 1966 and then, from chassis # 9829 in May '76, a Bonaldi Master Vac 14-18943.
-Also regarding the transmission, after chassis # 9939 molybdenum-sprayed sychromesh rings were fitted for easier gearchanging and longevity.
-Headlamps until mid-'66 were Marchall after that Carellos.
-Before chassis # 9893 a single oil cooler was fitted, after that twin oil cooler were used at the same location.

Hope this helps.
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post #19 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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No opinion. No meaningful shoths from the underside or details from anywhere. No way to judge. If you are seriously on a 330 GTC, I would advise you to try to find a excellent late example (chassis # > 10500). In the development history of the type have been some meaningful changes over the course of the production line.

- From chassis # 9989 the fuel line has been changed due to getting to hot and vaporizing.
-Also the braking servo was initially a Dunlop C84 unit but was succeeded by an additional Bonaldi type 18172 unit in December 1966 and then, from chassis # 9829 in May '76, a Bonaldi Master Vac 14-18943.
-Also regarding the transmission, after chassis # 9939 molybdenum-sprayed sychromesh rings were fitted for easier gearchanging and longevity.
-Headlamps until mid-'66 were Marchall after that Carellos.
-Before chassis # 9893 a single oil cooler was fitted, after that twin oil cooler were used at the same location.

Hope this helps.
Very much so. Both the Bonhams cars are early models.
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post #20 of 28 Old 01-17-2011, 10:58 PM
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It would seem from the changes mentioned that people should avoid early 330GTCs.

Well, let me tell you that the owner of of 11339 (212's former car which is in very good condition) would gladly trade his for 9367, which is my car.

I have not found any cause for concern that I own an early 330GTC in the 15,000kms that I've owned it. It's been driven in various climatic conditions including the heat and the oil temp stays put where it should be. It did not on FLED2 but that was because a fan wasn't working. The oil temp has not seen more than 100 degrees C since July 2009 even in +30C weather working the car hard and so the second oil cooler is unnecessary unless your car lives in Dubai or Nevada (and then I suspect there would only be a problem if the car is worked really hard, like on a track). On almost all occassions my oil temp remains below 90 C.

I haven't had any complaints about brakes - I don't know which servos are on my car but at least it's something that can be easily fixed if there should be a problem.

As for synchros, well if a GTC hasn't had a gearbox revision since new then it will need one in any case. Synchros should be replaced at that time with better versions. As a matter of interest, synchros for 2nd and 3rd cannot be found globally at the moment (I know because my gearbox has been in preventative revision over the past 2 months). Piet Roelofs has expressed his intention to remake them soon. The other synchros can still be found.

The upshot of all this is that, in my humble opinion, there is absolutely no reason to avoid an early GTC. Condition is what it is all about - buy a good one, or restore one.


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