360 Oil leaks and fumes with the top down - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 05-20-2009, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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360 Oil leaks and fumes with the top down

So I changed the trans oil in my 360.... what a difference it made! Thanks Gcalo for the advice. Everything sealed up tight and no leaks on the trans. are apparent.... although I am getting a little gear oil/motor oil fume smell with the top down.... so I cleaned the engine compartment spotless... the smell abated, but then soon returned. I noticed there are a few small oil leaks around the valve cover and oil hoses on the back side of the motor. a small pool of oil was also found on top of the intake manifold on top of the motor.
Would small motor oil leaks smell like gear oil? I've never smelt the motor oil, but i'm looking forward to fixing the leaks here and there and changeing it myself soon.
Valve cover gasket hard to change?
Thanks! Love working on my car myself. Maybe someone can suggest a service manual for me?
LP
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post #2 of 12 Old 05-20-2009, 08:48 PM
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You are making me nervous mentioning "gear oil" odor with top down.

I say this because I have nearly finished my upgrade option that removes the transmission oil water cooler and replaces it with a small air cooled coil with an electric fan to cool the tranny fluid.

The "smell" concern is that the OEM heat exchanger is a ticking time bomb on all 360's! A friend had his let go recently which filled the tranny/gearbox with coolant and filled the entire cooling system with 75 weight tranny oil! That cost him $10,000.00 to have repaired, and he has to deal with remnants of oil in cooling areas and water in the tranny. I know of 2 - 3 others in this area who have experienced the same.

My upgrade will sell for less than the cost of the OEM heat exchanger from Ferrari and will separate the fluids as they should be. It takes about 8 - 10 hours to replace. At current shop rates that's about a tenth of what my friend paid and you'll never again have worries about the water in the tranny!

So, Levi, check your engine oil for any signs of H2O!

Valve cover gaskets are not so tough but maybe you can slightly torque what's there to see if the leak stops.

Look for all areas of oil leaks.

Keep us posted on the ease of shifting.
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post #3 of 12 Old 05-20-2009, 09:16 PM
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Gcalo, You have my attention. Can you advise what the issue witih the heat exchanger is and how to tell if you are moving towards a major problem.
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post #4 of 12 Old 05-20-2009, 09:29 PM
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The heat exchanger is about 8" - 9" in length. It sits below the intake manifold and comes off the rear of the water pump and dumps into the cylinder heads. There are two oil lines connected that go to the tranny.

This device is a disaster waiting to happen and it's outrageously expensive to repair.

Interesting to note that this is NOT used in the Challenge cars! Ferrari knows better.

My upgrade removes that stupid design (used on the 430's but somewhat different and located differently but none the less a dumb design) completely, reroutes the oil lines to an new oil cooler (which is a Ferrari part BTW) that has a temp sensor to bring the fan on/off. The cooler is located in a clever place.

Believe me anyone who owns a 360 or CS should be very concerned. The OEM exchanger is a time bomb!

My upgrade will sell for about $650.00 total!

The OEM exchanger is nearly USD$800.00!

A photo of the OEM part is below.

As to querrying the situation, you have to monitor your oil for signs of water but it could be too late by then.
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post #5 of 12 Old 05-21-2009, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcalo View Post
The heat exchanger is about 8" - 9" in length. It sits below the intake manifold and comes off the rear of the water pump and dumps into the cylinder heads. There are two oil lines connected that go to the tranny.

This device is a disaster waiting to happen and it's outrageously expensive to repair.

Interesting to note that this is NOT used in the Challenge cars! Ferrari knows better.

My upgrade removes that stupid design (used on the 430's but somewhat different and located differently but none the less a dumb design) completely, reroutes the oil lines to an new oil cooler (which is a Ferrari part BTW) that has a temp sensor to bring the fan on/off. The cooler is located in a clever place.

Believe me anyone who owns a 360 or CS should be very concerned. The OEM exchanger is a time bomb!

My upgrade will sell for about $650.00 total!

The OEM exchanger is nearly USD$800.00!

A photo of the OEM part is below.

As to querrying the situation, you have to monitor your oil for signs of water but it could be too late by then.
Very interesting. Will have to ask my mechanic about this when the 360 goes in for service in a week.

Right on the 360 Challenge. It has a seperate oil cooler mounted behind the engine.
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post #6 of 12 Old 05-22-2009, 08:12 AM
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Yes and that cooler is air fed by a chute attached to the rear lid.

Not practical for a street car as it needs to be going about 100 mph for cooling!

However the way some folks drive here in CA that might work!
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post #7 of 12 Old 05-22-2009, 09:39 AM
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MY engine is always cooled

Greg: the OEM on the Oil cooler, is it from a 430 or 'another' model from older vintage or such.

BTW: You gave a very good discussion.

LASTLY: What do the CHALLENGE cars use? Why not just go that route?

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post #8 of 12 Old 05-22-2009, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
---Greg: the OEM on the Oil cooler, is it from a 430 or 'another' model from older vintage or such.
Not from a 430. It's the same as what is used on the Challenge car but with an special electric fan attached with a non-invasive temp sensor (no leak possibility).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
---LASTLY: What do the CHALLENGE cars use? Why not just go that route?
It's air cooled by a scoup on the engine hatch. That can't work on a street car unless you are going more than 100 mph. Now for you, Rik, that's not a problem, but for most of us it is!

The entire kit from me has everything required. It's a bolt-on assembly that just takes a little time.

Coolant has to be drained down a bit, OEM heat exchanger removed and replaced with supplied hose and clamps, OEM oil lines rerouted, electic feed installed, cooler mounted, lines attached, electric connected, tranny oil refilled, coolant added and bled, car driven a bit, then air bled from tranny by means of opening tranny fill port, adding a bit more tranny fluid (maybe), and that's it.

Tranny temp runs 47 degrees cooler, engine runs cooler cause no tranny heat inserted and coolant water flows more efficiently.

With the addition of Redline tranny oil that gearbox is a seeing a new life and no longer any fear of coolant water getting in.

I had been working on this for a while before my friend's system blew up. I had anticipated this happening. What a mess and what a cost!
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post #9 of 12 Old 05-22-2009, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcalo View Post
Yes and that cooler is air fed by a chute attached to the rear lid.

Not practical for a street car as it needs to be going about 100 mph for cooling!

However the way some folks drive here in CA that might work!
I do remember the set up on the 360 Challenge. Even with it, you used to build up an enormous amount of heat in the engine bay.
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post #10 of 12 Old 05-22-2009, 10:44 AM
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I took into consideration the engine heat build-up when finding the most suitable location for the coil. Where it's placed in the Challenge car blocks some engine heat release through the challenge grille!

I believe where I am placing it will prevent heat build-up and will actually help rid engine heat.

The major point here is that the 360, CS, and 430 transmissions get very hot from the cats on both sides.

That quickly degrades tranny oil.

The tranny heat then gets dumped back into the engine through the cooling system! What a stupid concept. Not only does the engine run hotter but the tranny never really gets cooled!
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post #11 of 12 Old 07-08-2009, 07:32 PM
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You can now read the published presentation of the cooler

http://www.dynamtechgroup.com/ferrari-tranny-cooler.php
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post #12 of 12 Old 04-13-2011, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Turns out I had leaky valve covers! The gaskets seemed really cheap and just flaked apart when evaluating... I expected more out of Ferrari on this one...
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