Front Suspension Mods - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-22-2009, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Front Suspension Mods

If you notice a bit of front end dipping or road contact at speed on road high spots, there is a cure.

The front springs on the 360 and 430 are the same. They are approximately 348 lbs in force. They need a slight boost.

AFCO makes a replacement spring that is 400 lbs that fits perfectly, stops the dip at speed, and stiffens front body roll just slightly. It's their model # 23400 wich is 13%- 15% stiffer than the OEM.

See:http://www.afabcorp.com/AFCO_Dynatec...p_coil-over-10

These are great springs that run less than $70.00 each.

They are available from GAT Racing, 3720 E. Hardy Dr, Tucson, AZ 85716 (520) 325-4462 Fax (520) 323-1429. I can't find a web site or e-mail for them. Contact Mark. He is very helpful.

These cure the problems! A friend has done it and in about a week mine will be done.

More to come.
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-01-2009, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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In preparation of my new front springs going in on Tuesday, I removed my front shocks and thought I would share my experience of removing them since what i figured out differs from that of the W/S manual and it saves a ton of time!

360 Front Shock Removal

Front shock removal is quite simple but if done from a lift it is can be even easier.

I do caution not to support the car on jack stands, because you have a little tuggle with the nut securing the front torsion bar to the lower shock bolt. I supported my car on 5 short pieces of a 2”X10” on each side about 6” behind each wheel. This gives full support with no car movement. It makes me feel more secure.

You will need 10 mm, 17 mm, and 19 mm sockets as well as a 17 mm and 19 mm flat open end wrenches. If you have also a 17 mm open end wrench about 4”- 5” in length it makes the torsion bar nut removal easier after the two nuts are loosened.

The nut on the tie rod end of the torsion bar has only one set of 17 mm cutouts. So a short 17 mm open end makes location of the cutout aaand its movement in there quite easy.

The W/S manual says to first remove the upper 10 mm bolt that holds the shock electrical connector. With this I agree, and then remove the connector.

However I digress from the W/S manual procedure. I then suggest to put a 19 mm socket on the lower shock nut and a 19 mm open end on the nut up against the torsion tie rod end side of this assembly. Loosen that 19 mm nut just a bit so you can move the 19 mm open end wrench a bit. Move the 19 mm open end so that you can locate the 17 mm cutouts on the tie rod not to install the 17 mm regular length open end. I braced the 19 mm wrench and then taped against the 17 mm to just break the bond.

I then put my floor jack under the brake rotor with a hockey puck between them and put just a slight bit of upward pressure on the assembly. It makes removing the tie rod thread assembly much, much easier. The W/S manual says nothing of this. I then put the shorter 17 mm open end on the tie rod nut and worked it so I could free it completely and rotated it slightly upward out of the way.

I then put the 19 mm socket on the shock bottom bolt nut and while holding the 19 mm open end on the other side completely removed that nut. I gradually taped the lower shock bolt until it came free out the other side. I then removed the floor jack and moved out of the way.

I put the 17 mm socket on the wrench and with the hammer taped each of the upper bolts to slightly loosen them. I then loosened each almost completely, supported the shock assembly slightly with one hand while removing one of the upper bolts and then did the second.

The shock assembly will easily remove over the wishbone but be careful as you lift it out, because if you are too energetic you can ding the inside of the fender leaving a noticeable dent on the outside. (No, I did not ding my car.).

Another word of caution, use some type of a permanent marker and mark on the top of the casting which is Right and which is Left.

Inspect the lower rubber bushings for wear and integrity and replace if necessary. P/N 157630.

Replacement is the reverse. Don’t forget to use the floor jack to put slight upward pressure on the rotor to make re-installation of the tie rod threads and replacement of the two upper mounting bolts easy.

Torque values: upper shock bolts – 36.88 ft-lbs (50Nm); lower shock bolt nut – 44.25 ft-lbs (60 Nm)
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-12-2009, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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A few photos to show the AFCO spring installed.

First one is the spring and the second is the tie rod end of the sway bar almost completely out of the lower shock bolt.

More to come.
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-16-2009, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I finally this past W/E was able to finally adjust the shock.

Instructions below:

AFCO 10” Spring Installation

360/430 Front Spring Installation

The AFCO replacement spring for the 360 front suspension is an AFCO P/N: 23400. It is a 400# spring and it measures 10” in height. The OEM spring is 9.5” +/- in height, and it is about 350# in pressure. The P/N: 23400 AFCO is about 15% slightly greater in pressure which gives the front end just a bit more control, less sway, and takes away the slight dip at speeds.

The link to the AFCO 10" springs is: http://www.afabcorp.com/AFCO_Dynatec...p_coil-over-10

The final vehicle height adjustment process can be done easiest with the shock body mounted in the spring compressor. It can certainly be done with the spring mounted, but it is much easier to do it with the spring compressed outside of the vehicle. See 360 Front Shock Removal.

Have a knowledgeable person compress the springs on a quality piece of equipment if you are not familiar with spring compression. It is a dangerous process for a novice!

Remember that prior to removing the OEM spring one must measure the original location of the spring support collar to a fixed point on the shock before removing the OEM spring. Mark with a small felt pen on the shock body and record the distance on each shock. You are measuring from the bottom of the spring support collar to any point on the shock for a reference point! When installing the new AFCO spring you will then have a reference point to drop the additional required ½” on the spring support collar.

There is a ½” height difference between the OEM and the AFCO spring, and then, and when the AFCO spring is mounted into the coilover the spring supporting collar (measurement) must be lowered by this ½” amount to equal the original spring distance.

The additional pressure of the AFCO spring will raise the vehicle about 1” when the spring support collar is dropped the additional ½” from the OEM location on the shock body.

When the factory spring is replaced with the AFCO spring and adjustment will be done with the shock assembly mounted on the vehicle, one must refer to the Motion Ratio table for additional turns.

With the spring in the compressor and with the support ring set to the OEM spring distance above-marked, there are approximately 16 additional turns required to lower the spring support ring so that the vehicle will settle to factory settings. This is based upon the OEM springs set to the OEM Ferrari ride height.

See “Lowering A 360/430” for the procedure and preferred tools.

When the adjustment is done with the spring in the compressor, turning the spring support ring is easy.

Again, mark the OEM distance of the spring support ring on the shock body before spring removal, compress the OEM spring, loosen the locking ring and remove, slowly loosen the spring support ring until free, remove the spring, install the AFCO spring and compress, reduce the distance you measured for the OEM spring by ½” (12.5mm) and then set the spring support ring down 16 turns from there. Lock the rings and slowly decompress the spring.

Check the lower shock support bushings before reinstallation and replace if necessary. This is important as they may knock. They are Ferrari P/N: 157630.


Upon installation of the complete coilover assembly the front body height should be exactly as prescribed in the “Lowering A 360 or 430” discussion. Check the measurements from below as prescribed by Ferrari, and adjust as necessary.

If too low (which they should not be) one can always turn up the ring to raise the vehicle. See the M.R. chart for the effect.

Last edited by Gcalo; 03-16-2009 at 04:53 PM.
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-17-2009, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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The best source for the AFCO springs is:

GAT Racing
Attn: Mark
3720 E. Hardy
Tucson, AZ 85716
V 520-325-4462
F 520-323-1429

I have not found a web site or e-mail address for them unfortunately.
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-19-2009, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Here is the current update.

I was not using my brain when I lowered the car with the new AFCO springs.

I had forgotten that new springs settle! DAH.

Well the car has dropped about 1/2" more than I want it and it's below the factory spec. For some this would be great, but it's already starting to scrape! I don't want scraping!

So I am going to let them settle a bit more and then turn up the spring support ring to raise the car.

So stand by and I'll update with the final number of turns.

It looks like I should have gone only 8 turns beyond the lowered 1/2" mark rather than the stated 16.

I will fully advise and update the process.

If anyone needs the file I can e-mail it.
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-26-2009, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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Here is the update.

The springs have fully dropped causing the F/E measurement to drop to 4.25", and for me that was way too low.

So I turned the ring up a total of 9 turns from where I had dropped it (24 turns total)which equates to approximately 0.755" where is exactly where I want the vehicle height to be at about 4.99".

So, after you drop the OEM ring location the first 8 turns, the only go another 7-8 turns from there to yield the proper vehicle height.

The above document will be updated and will be available to anyone by request.

Also, don't waste the $50.00 on the Hill LNS-02 wrench. It will not work with the shock mounted in the vehicle.

The McMasters-Carr spanner wrench is perfect for both the smaller and the larger rings, and you can use it perfectly with the shock mounted.

More to follow.
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post #8 of 20 Old 01-03-2018, 06:46 AM
 
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Has anyone seen these Hamann springs on Ebay?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132448997...84.m1558.l2649
Are they worth buying?
Thanks.
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-14-2018, 01:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcalo View Post
Here is the update.

The springs have fully dropped causing the F/E measurement to drop to 4.25", and for me that was way too low.

So I turned the ring up a total of 9 turns from where I had dropped it (24 turns total)which equates to approximately 0.755" where is exactly where I want the vehicle height to be at about 4.99".

So, after you drop the OEM ring location the first 8 turns, the only go another 7-8 turns from there to yield the proper vehicle height.

The above document will be updated and will be available to anyone by request.

Also, don't waste the $50.00 on the Hill LNS-02 wrench. It will not work with the shock mounted in the vehicle.

The McMasters-Carr spanner wrench is perfect for both the smaller and the larger rings, and you can use it perfectly with the shock mounted.

More to follow.
Which McMasters-Carr spanner wrench do you use? Thanks!
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post #10 of 20 Old 11-03-2018, 11:37 AM
 
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Great information! I purchased the same springs as well!



I was wondering if you considered changing the rear springs as well, to balance everything out? If so, which AFCO springs would you use?


Thanks!
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post #11 of 20 Old 11-04-2018, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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AFCO no longer makes the AF23400 springs I had used.

I made contact with the person I knew there, and he confirmed this fact.

There are a few pieces floating around in a few inventories, but that's it.

The rear springs are completely different and much higher ratios.

Always a good idea to use the same make springs all around to prevent unusual oscillations

I have sourced a maker to do the fronts and the rears to my specs, and I will have those in a while.

There is now a huge difference in lateral stability (YAW motion) with these springs installed.

Ferrari does a great job for the average driving applications, but the cars can use improvement

Frafoss, I will have to look up the wrench number

It is McMaster’s spanner wrench P/N: 6975A22
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post #12 of 20 Old 11-05-2018, 12:05 PM
 
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Gcalo,


Thank you for the update!


I was able to find brand new AF23400's! It is old stock but new.


I look forward to your update
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post #13 of 20 Old 11-05-2018, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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As I had stated there are a few springs in inventory at various locations.

Take your time installing them.

They are 13 mm shorter than the OEM springs.

Mark the location of the upper cap so during reassembly you can adjust for that 13 mm

I will update on rear springs very soon.
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post #14 of 20 Old 11-28-2018, 08:14 PM
 
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How about the Rear?

Gcalo,


If you were to replace the rear springs, what spring rate would you put to balance the car? With 400 lbs in the front, would 600lbs be too hard?


Thanks!
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post #15 of 20 Old 11-28-2018, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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You need 700-725 lbs pressure
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post #16 of 20 Old 11-29-2018, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
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The 700 - 725 lb springs are near impossible to find.

This is why I am contracting with a factory to make them
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post #17 of 20 Old 12-13-2018, 05:42 PM
 
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Any luck on find the rear springs ?

Also, can someone please confirm the spring rates for the F430 ?

There are 2 tables which I found on the internet, and one of them is from StefVan (the table on the right)

The Left table with spring rates circled in yellow OR the right table with spring rates circled in red ?

Please click on the image below:

https://imgur.com/a/fWL5ZEd

This is so misleading as I'm about to order shortened springs with uprated spring rates for my F430
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post #18 of 20 Old 12-14-2018, 03:35 AM
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Hi, as mentioned in your other thread, I indeed published this OEM spring characteristic document which can be found here: https://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/s...0-Spring-rates

You'll find there the complete version of it (your source doesn't seem to be the full version).

With all the data provided above "Cs Colour Categories", you can make your own calculations. Mine are one way of calculating spring load Kg/mm but it's not the only way.
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post #19 of 20 Old 12-16-2018, 11:01 PM
 
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I was able to put together 400lbs for the front and 600lbs for the rear both brand new AFCO springs.


Just don't have time to have it installed and am afraid that it will just stay in the garage.


So if anyone is interested, just ping me!
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post #20 of 20 Old 01-26-2019, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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600 lb springs for the rear are wholly inadequate!

Those are less than the OEM springs.

So you will be creating a big problem!
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