F430 F1 Pressure Issue - Page 2 - Ferrari Life
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post #21 of 34 Old 01-04-2020, 12:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by StefVan View Post
Greg, I think that on your Launch "Oil Leak With Clutch Electrovalve ON" and "Oil Leak With Clutch Electrovalve OFF" refers to the clutch, not the E-DIFF valve. They are the same parameters as on the SD3/DEIS "OIL LEAKAGE WITH CLUTCH SV TRIGGERED ( cc/min)" part of the F1 system. Although, I see that the Launch has a "Ediff System Leak" parameter which I suppose is a calculated value. This parameter doesn't exist on the SD3.



Try to make several bleed cycles of the E-DIFF as I described on the website. You'll see a lot air getting out at the E-DIFF bleed nipple. I would do after a complete F1 bleed cycle to make sure no air got back there.
Bleed e-diff and then f1 or f1 then e-diff ..trying to make sure what you meant

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post #22 of 34 Old 01-04-2020, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Stef. Thats exactly what I did today. I ran several bleed cycles on the Ediff as you described. I tested the Ediff and it seems like it acts like you described. Ohm reading also seems fine. 2.3 to 2.4.

I also bled the clutch valve several times and the upper bleed nipple block by the F1 pump. Not sure how or if ? I need to do a bleed on the lower bleed nipple at the F1 pump block ? Maybe the Launch doesn't support this ?

Do you know how to bleed that one ? Sorry for all the questions.

I did use new clear hose but didn't really see any air bubbles. Maybe 1 or so. I did not pull the actuator back off again (lots of work as you know). But I think its fine. After the first actuator bleed it really acts much better. No lag on 3 to 4 shift. Shifts are quick and clean. Really smooth and quiet with the Liqui Molly in there.

I did a 70 mile drive today after the bleed and it shifts great, clean and crisp . I did get 2 shifts to neutral (both 5 to 6). Not sure if its worth chasing this issue anymore?. It really is 150% better than when I started all this. According to the Launch there is a few really low pressure drops. Thats probably when I get the miss shift. Maybe the TOB Bearing? I can live with it till it needs new clutch if that's what it is . Unless you have any other suggestions? Again....Thanks for all the help. GL

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post #23 of 34 Old 01-08-2020, 07:55 AM
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Well done Greg and thanks for your update.

You'll need to bleed the F1 system and clutch also at these 2 bleed nipples (as shown on the picture below). Not sure this can be done without a diagnostic tool but you can give it try. Make sure the pressure stays at maximum while bleeding allowing the pump to prime almost permanently with of course enough fluid in the tank. A lot fluid comes out there so the tank will get empty really fast. BTW, the hydraulic block shown on 1) is known to have hairline cracks which can cause pressure loss. Hill Engineering offers a better manufactured solution.

From the beginning of our email exchanges, I suspected a failing TOB seal. I still think that you have an issue there which causes these big pressure drops. Yep, maybe you'll have to address this because I'm afraid that it will go progressively worst again.

Best,
Stef
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post #24 of 34 Old 01-08-2020, 08:05 AM
 
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Stef

Hello and good day .. I normally chat on ferrarichat and new here ..

What would you say is the proper sequence

E.g

Nipple 1
Nipple 2
E-diff
F1 actuator

Thoughts

Thank you in advance

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post #25 of 34 Old 01-08-2020, 01:01 PM
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Hi,
Thank you for joining us here on FerrariLife

In normal cases like regular fluid change, you don't need to bleed the F1 actuator. Bleeding the actuator is only necessary if for instance one of the hydraulic hoses have been removed or in case of loose bleed screws/worn O-Rings. If this is the case, then purging the air trapped there would be the last operation. So in order: E-DIFF, Nipple 2, Nipple 1 and F1 actuator.

Stef
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post #26 of 34 Old 01-08-2020, 01:38 PM
 
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Thanks for the quick and detailed response

I didn't realize on a fluid change there wasn't a real need to flush the actuator ..that makes a flush easier .
Alot easier

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post #27 of 34 Old 01-08-2020, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Stef. My launch tool does support the bleeding on the clutch side on the F! pump . (Nipple 1 and 2) So I did do a long bleed on both of these nipples. and Yes.... I have installed a new clutch bleed block from Hill . I noticed a little oil on my old block so I think it was cracked. Its probably the TOB bearing. I will get some miles on it this spring and summer and see how it does. What is the 2 bleed nipples on a block under the right hand cover where the pump and tank are located? Is it the Lins that go to the Ediff? And how do you bleed these ? Thx. GL

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post #28 of 34 Old 01-08-2020, 10:08 PM
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You're welcome Greg. You did well to replace the OEM clutch hydraulic block as they very often end up with small cracks.
Do you mind to post a picture of the 2 bleed nipples on a block you mentioned?
Many thanks,
Stef
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post #29 of 34 Old 01-08-2020, 10:28 PM
 
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Stef
Maybe Greg is referring to block 35 in the attached diagram ..the e-diff block near tank.. if remember correctly the top bleed screw is always pressurized(car running or ign on) rhe bottom isn't since it is the return from e-diff

Not sure if these need to be touched if following your e-diff process ..

Thoughts

Thank you

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Last edited by theflash32; 01-08-2020 at 10:34 PM.
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post #30 of 34 Old 01-08-2020, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hi theflsh32, Yes.....thats the bleed block I'm referencing. I thinks its the end of the Ediff supply lines ? or the start of the lines ? Do we need to bleed them ? GL

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post #31 of 34 Old 01-09-2020, 12:34 PM
 
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It is actually the start and end of the lines that go to the e-diff .. feed and return ..as I mentioned above I don't believe you need to touch these since you are doing a complete bleed in ediff using Stef's method ..

I will defer to Stef if he feels differently


I would like to thank you and Stef for an informative thread

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post #32 of 34 Old 01-09-2020, 12:39 PM
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Thanks theflash32 & Greg, I see now what you mean.

Indeed, the upper hose is the E-DIFF fluid delivery hose while the one below is the return of the E-DIFF. It's the link between the power unit and the E-DIFF. Unless you've detached the 2 quick coupling hoses from this block connected at the opposite side of the block (towards the power unit), there is no need to bleed these 2 nipples. Although, if these quick coupling hoses have been detached, than you'll need to bleed also at both nipples on this block using the same procedure as I explained on my website, and then end up with a bleed at the nipple nearby the E-DIFF control valve.
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post #33 of 34 Old 01-11-2020, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Stef. You have been great. One last question (maybe). If my TOB bearing was to blame for the pressure loss swings in my F1 system? Wouldn't I see some sort of leak or oil somewhere ? My clutch housing seems completely dry. No sign of oil anywhere? Everything is completely dry. All the bleed blocks, Edif and all the hoses. Wouldn't pressure loss = leak somewhere? Thx. GL

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post #34 of 34 Old 01-12-2020, 01:31 AM
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You're very welcome Greg.

There is often confusion made between pressure loss and fluid leakage flow rate. Based on the Bernoulli equation, this can be quite precisely evaluated but depends on many factors like fluid gravity, velocity, pipe sections, etc. In a nutshell, only a couple of small fluid drops can already create a big pressure loss, enough to cause F1 gear engagement issues. If your TOB seal is for instance causing this, you won't see any fluid but your clutch may tend to slip more than usual as it will get contaminated with small fluid drops on it. Your graphs show very large pressure drops at the moment you engage a gear which really makes me think that your TOB seal is worn or no more correctly placed. Unfortunately, the only way to know is to remove the gearbox.

Best,
Stef
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