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Best 430Scuderia 03-26-2019 10:58 AM

430Scuderia problem
 
Hi every one, Hope every one is enjoying his Ferrari.

I have my 430 Scuderia since 2009 (new), I have no dealer in my area, so I am force to make the maintenance by my self, i bought all the required tools to fix any car i own.

Before one month i was driving my scuderia at night and suddenly had problem “slow down” in red color, immediately i put neutral and pulled over side of the road, i found that the clutch hydrolic pipe is damaged, and leaking all the F1 oil

The second day I replaced the damaged pipe, and bleed the system. But still there is delay in engaging all the gears. Also i found that my cluch is worn out 100% through the computer, while it was 45% before the problem happened.

I bought new clutch, and found out when i compared the old with the new one that there is 5mm deference in the pressure plate only, and the clutch disc is nearly exactly the same. Also compared it with a very old one i have before it is also the same. So the bearing sensor is reading 100% worn out clutch because of the pressure plates bent extra

The car is still disassembled .... just today i installed the gear to the engine, hope tomorrow i can do more in the assembly

My question any one have experience. if i put 5mm plate (or what ever the size) or washers under the bearing sensor holder, can be solution to use my old clutches with a reading in the computer.

Still i have problem with the gear atuator delay, but i will try to fix it as soon i complete assembly the other parts

Hope nothing else got damaged

Regards,
Tars

Fiammenghi Engineering 03-27-2019 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733699)
Hi every one, Hope every one is enjoying his Ferrari.

I have my 430 Scuderia since 2009 (new), I have no dealer in my area, so I am force to make the maintenance by my self, i bought all the required tools to fix any car i own.

Before one month i was driving my scuderia at night and suddenly had problem “slow down” in red color, immediately i put neutral and pulled over side of the road, i found that the clutch hydrolic pipe is damaged, and leaking all the F1 oil

The second day I replaced the damaged pipe, and bleed the system. But still there is delay in engaging all the gears. Also i found that my cluch is worn out 100% through the computer, while it was 45% before the problem happened.

I bought new clutch, and found out when i compared the old with the new one that there is 5mm deference in the pressure plate only, and the clutch disc is nearly exactly the same. Also compared it with a very old one i have before it is also the same. So the bearing sensor is reading 100% worn out clutch because of the pressure plates bent extra

The car is still disassembled .... just today i installed the gear to the engine, hope tomorrow i can do more in the assembly

My question any one have experience. if i put 5mm plate (or what ever the size) or washers under the bearing sensor holder, can be solution to use my old clutches with a reading in the computer.

Still i have problem with the gear atuator delay, but i will try to fix it as soon i complete assembly the other parts

Hope nothing else got damaged

Regards,
Tars

Hello Tars,

i have no experience with the Scuderia but, as per wath i understood, your thinkings are logic, however i can ask to my dealer, can you send a picture of the two pressure plates that have 5 mm difference ?

Fabio

David @ FluentInFerrari 03-27-2019 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733699)
Before one month i was driving my scuderia at night and suddenly had problem “slow down” in red color, immediately i put neutral and pulled over side of the road, i found that the clutch hydrolic pipe is damaged, and leaking all the F1 oil

The second day I replaced the damaged pipe, and bleed the system. But still there is delay in engaging all the gears. Also i found that my cluch is worn out 100% through the computer, while it was 45% before the problem happened.

This simply is not possible. It is highly probable that the system is not bled correctly. With that said, it is not possible to accurately determine the clutch wear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733699)
I bought new clutch, and found out when i compared the old with the new one that there is 5mm deference in the pressure plate only, and the clutch disc is nearly exactly the same. Also compared it with a very old one i have before it is also the same. So the bearing sensor is reading 100% worn out clutch because of the pressure plates bent extra

Clutch wear typically occurs at the friction disc, although the 430 had issues with the pressure plate fingers breaking off. As wear is a calculation based on where the pressure plate is at rest to where it ends up (when the clutch is fully disengaged) a thicker plate will result in a lower wear number, presuming that all other variables/parameters are left alone.

My only question here is: Are you using a genuine Ferrari replacement clutch kit? If it is, that's good. If not, send it back. Pressure plate height is measure with the unit assembled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733699)
Still i have problem with the gear actuator delay, but i will try to fix it as soon i complete assembly the other parts

What are you using as a diagnostic tool? Have you bled the actuator and the clutch? Are there any error codes. In my professional opinion, if the car shifted fine before the hydraulic line failed....and now, after your repair, it didn't, you still have air in the system.

Best 430Scuderia 03-29-2019 07:25 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiammenghi Engineering (Post 733701)
Hello Tars,

i have no experience with the Scuderia but, as per wath i understood, your thinkings are logic, however i can ask to my dealer, can you send a picture of the two pressure plates that have 5 mm difference ?

Fabio

Dear Fabio

Unfortunately i have installed the new clutch, I took pictures of the old ones which are lower by approximately 5 mm from the pressure fingers

Also attached pictures for the old frection discs which are nearly same as the new one

Regards

Tars

Best 430Scuderia 03-29-2019 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari (Post 733703)
My only question here is: Are you using a genuine Ferrari replacement clutch kit? If it is, that's good. If not, send it back. Pressure plate height is measure with the unit assembled.



What are you using as a diagnostic tool? Have you bled the actuator and the clutch? Are there any error codes. In my professional opinion, if the car shifted fine before the hydraulic line failed....and now, after your repair, it didn't, you still have air in the system.

Dear David

That means what i am saying is correct about the pressure plate going down 5 mm while it is not assembled. I missed to measure it while installed, any how it is lower than the new one

Regarding the parts, it is original ferrari parts

I am using TEXA diagnostic tool, and i bled theactuator many times also the clutch, but still there is air coming out, i think i have to do it too many times.

Regading the actuator do i have to hold it horizontally or vertically to get fhe air out?

Regards
Tars

Best 430Scuderia 03-29-2019 07:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
To make it more clear, add small washers under item no 44 in the attached, so i think the computer will read again the thinkness of the washers

David @ FluentInFerrari 03-31-2019 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733717)
To make it more clear, add small washers under item no 44 in the attached, so i think the computer will read again the thinkness of the washers

This is not needed. The differences in pressure plate height are not relevant. If all of the other related clutch components are in specs, a normal "new clutch closed position" procedure will work just fine.

David @ FluentInFerrari 03-31-2019 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733715)

That means what i am saying is correct about the pressure plate going down 5 mm while it is not assembled. I missed to measure it while installed, any how it is lower than the new one

This does not matter and is irrelevant.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733715)

Regarding the parts, it is original ferrari parts

This is good! Just be sure to inspect and, if necessary, machine the flywheel if there are signs of warping. If there is any evidence of leakage or if the bearing is noisy, the throw out (annular) bearing should be replaced.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733715)

I am using TEXA diagnostic tool, and i bled the actuator many times also the clutch, but still there is air coming out, i think i have to do it too many times.

The Texa should be able to perform these functions. You'll need to bleed the clutch, the junction block, the actuator and the e-diff, depending on just how low the hydraulic fluid got. You may have to bleed multiple times. The position of the actuator doesn't really matter.

Best 430Scuderia 04-11-2019 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari (Post 733723)

The Texa should be able to perform these functions. You'll need to bleed the clutch, the junction block, the actuator and the e-diff, depending on just how low the hydraulic fluid got. You may have to bleed multiple times. The position of the actuator doesn't really matter.

I bleed the system many times, first and reverse are very good when i am stopping, but, i feel there is clutch slip then it engaged while driving, i am not sure if it is air or software issue

Also the clutch wear % still 100%, did not changed?

Have you got an idea where is the problem?

Regards

Tars

David @ FluentInFerrari 04-11-2019 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best 430Scuderia (Post 733775)
I bleed the system many times, first and reverse are very good when i am stopping, but, i feel there is clutch slip then it engaged while driving, i am not sure if it is air or software issue

Also the clutch wear % still 100%, did not changed?

Have you got an idea where is the problem?

Regards

Tars

Did you go through the new clutch setup on the Texa? Specifically, did you set the "new clutch closed" position? Where is the PIS set? And, when the clutch was apart, did you machine or replace the flywheel?

Best 430Scuderia 04-19-2019 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari (Post 733777)
Did you go through the new clutch setup on the Texa? Specifically, did you set the "new clutch closed" position? Where is the PIS set? And, when the clutch was apart, did you machine or replace the flywheel?

Thanks David for helping me, it took from me a while to reply As the weather is very cold. And it is not easy for me to work in the garage 39F

By mistake I was entering the clutch closed position wrong, but now it is correct, and the clutch % is around 3% which is good as reference.

And the flywheel was in a very good shape

For the PIS: the gear start moving on 8.3 mm , I put is 8.5 mm which it start to moves at low acceleration RPM, then I change it to 9 mm and drove the car, but automatically it goes to 11.4 mm after I restart the engine.

But still I have slip, but it is shorter some how than before ????? On all gears, even down shifting, maybe it needs more bleeding ?????.

Some time I think it is not slipping, maybe something else,..... but the Rpm goes up then go down. ....Which is slipping

Thanks if you have idea what could cause the clutch slipping...

- if the actuator have air...... I think I could have problem with the gear engagement.....not delay.... hope I am correct.
- if the clutch bearing have air ....... it will move slower than usual..... which maybe my case...... I will try to bleed again the clutch bearing ...... while I bleed it more than 10times now
- if the pump pressure is low...... it won’t change the gears or make wrong engagement ....as they need high pressure more than 40 bar

Regards
Tars


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