360 360 vs F430 purchase? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 10-18-2015, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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360 vs F430 purchase?

Hello All,

There are usually not many Ferraris for sale locally, so the selection is always very small.

My preference is to buy a 575M manual (FHP or HGTC if a miracle happens) or 456/612 manual, since I've always wanted to own a 12-cylinder, manual, Ferrari. I'm also partial to the 4-seaters.

I recently found a 2002 360 Modena manual with a rare sunroof option, with 45,000 km, asking $116 CAD and a 2005 F430 manual, with 14,000 km, asking $196K CAD. Both Ferraris are local, which doesn't happen often and there are lots of advantages when buying local, including having my mechanic performing a PPI.

Both the 360 and F430 would be a "temporary hold" Ferrari until I did find what I am searching. Likewise, their re-sale values are important factors in my purchase decision. I'm sure I would enjoy driving either Ferrari.

On this basis, which of these two cars would you estimate to hold their current price better or possibly increase in the next 1 to 5 years?

Thank you,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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post #2 of 16 Old 10-19-2015, 01:58 AM
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Gianni,
Neither car will appreciate in value during your timeframe.
Additionally, while I'm totally ignorant of the market in Canada, that is an astronomical sum for both cars.
Other than pure enjoyment, I can't see an upside to buying one of them for a short term.

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post #3 of 16 Old 10-19-2015, 03:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
Gianni,
Neither car will appreciate in value during your time frame.
Additionally, while I'm totally ignorant of the market in Canada, that is an astronomical sum for both cars.
Other than pure enjoyment, I can't see an upside to buying one of them for a short term.
Killer,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I should have put the $USD values, which are $90K for the 2002 360 and $150K for the 2005 F430.

For comparison in Canada to give you a better idea of the market for 360 and F430 manual gearbox cars, there are for sale:

- 2000 360 manual with 54,000 km (33k mi.) asking $64K USD
- 2000 360 manual with 15,000 km (9k mi.) asking $124K USD
- 2003 360 spider manual with 20,000 km (12k mi.) asking $132K USD
- 2005 F430 manual with 14,000 km (8k mi.) asking $151K USD
- 2007 F430 spider with 23,000 km (14k mi.) asking $173k USD

F1 gearbox 360 can be purchased in Canada for $60k USD and under, while and F430 are $75k USD and under, commonly with 50,000+ km (30,000+ mi.). Low km (mi.) 360 and F430 with F1 gearbox are obviously more money.

So it appears there is a high premium for the manual gearbox 360 and F430 in Canada, and while I suspect it's the same in the US, I have not followed the US market recently.

With the high $USD and low $CAD, then adding federal import duties, local taxes, and transportation costs, it is no longer economical to import a car from the US to Canada, even though the purchase price may be lower in the US.

Thanks again,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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post #4 of 16 Old 10-19-2015, 06:27 AM
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Even in US dollars, with no additional fees, they're still very high priced.
Not sure what the sunroof adds to the 360's market value, but a stick adds maybe $5K (last I checked). But I would think the 30K miles would cancel out any premium. In any event, I don't see how a high-mileage coupe can get $90K.
Less sure of the 430, but again, that's high for a similar car in the US.

There are several 456s on the market, even paying all the import fees you'd still be fare below the local 360 and 430.

Maybe if one of them were the car of your dreams, but I still can't see how the math on either of them makes sense in the short term.

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post #5 of 16 Old 10-19-2015, 05:28 PM
 
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Gianni,
Go to autotrader.com and see what cars are selling for. A 2005 F430(first year) should be $120,000(US) or less. The price you are showing seems high.

2006 Ferrari F430 Coupé,
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post #6 of 16 Old 10-19-2015, 10:54 PM
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A 10 second internet search found this one @ USD124.

2008 Ferrari 430 . for $159,995 in Ottawa | autoTRADER.ca

But prices overall seem high and selection ridiculously low. We have many more Ferraris in our tiny country. Don't Canadians have taste?

Onno



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post #7 of 16 Old 10-20-2015, 07:12 AM
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Might as well get the 3 pedal 2+2 V12 now before the prices go completely berserk and forget the V8. 3 pedal 575Ms have priced themselves out of the market at $200-350K. One with HGTC could bring a Superamerica price.

Taz
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post #8 of 16 Old 10-20-2015, 07:34 AM
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Sage advice, Terry. Prices for most 3-pedal cars continue to climb. I'm surprised at the prices of TRs these days.
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post #9 of 16 Old 10-25-2015, 05:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efg2014 View Post
Gianni,
Go to autotrader.com and see what cars are selling for. A 2005 F430(first year) should be $120,000(US) or less. The price you are showing seems high.
Hi... the prices listed above are from AutoTrader.ca. Compared to US cars, Canadian prices are higher simply because the supply is very small compared to the US. Not much I can do about it, except keep looking.

Thanks,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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post #10 of 16 Old 10-25-2015, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
A 10 second internet search found this one @ USD124.

2008 Ferrari 430 . for $159,995 in Ottawa | autoTRADER.ca

But prices overall seem high and selection ridiculously low. We have many more Ferraris in our tiny country. Don't Canadians have taste?

Onno
Hello Onno,

I don't think it's a matter of taste, it more like we have a very large ocean between Canada and Italy and very stringent car importing regulations.

Maranello to Amsterdam is 1,250 km or about a 12 hour drive, while Ottawa to Edmonton (where I live) is 3,500 km or a 36 hour drive. Being "next door" to Maranello has it's advantages.

Sometimes life is not fair

Ciao, ciao,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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post #11 of 16 Old 10-25-2015, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Might as well get the 3 pedal 2+2 V12 now before the prices go completely berserk and forget the V8. 3 pedal 575Ms have priced themselves out of the market at $200-350K. One with HGTC could bring a Superamerica price.
Hello Terry,

So far this year, I have only seen one manual gearbox 575M for sale in Canada and it was sold the first day it was listed on AutoTrader.ca. There has not been a 575M of any specification listed on AutoTrader.ca for the past 6 months and only 3 listed for sale this year total.

Not much I can do, except to wait and then hope that I'm lucky enough to be close to the location where it's sold to get to it first.

I missed out on two 575M F1s this year because they were both a 4-hour flight away from me and I could not get there fast enough before they were sold.

I made a mistake last year to listen to a PPI agent that talk me out of buying a 575M F1 (TdF blue that I posted here with the custom arm rest) because he thought it was over priced at $110,000 CAD ($83,500 USD). That same car resold earlier this for $129,000 CAD ($100,000 USD).

I say again, life is not fair sometimes. C'est la vie!

Nice to here from you again,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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post #12 of 16 Old 10-25-2015, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 360 Modena View Post
Sage advice, Terry. Prices for most 3-pedal cars continue to climb. I'm surprised at the prices of TRs these days.
Much like the surprising high TR prices, we may all be surprised when the 360 and F430 manual gearbox prices also go sky high because Ferrari is no longer making manual gearboxes.

It's for this reason that I listed "only" manual gearbox 360 and F430 above.

If I can't find a 575M (F1 or manual), I'm thinking it would be prudent to buy a 360 or F430 manual before they become unavailable or the prices get unaffordably high.

I'm guessing there were fewer F430 manual gearbox cars produced versus 360 manuals, which would make them more rare. Does anyone know for sure?

In either case, I suspect there were more F1 gearbox 360s and F430s versus manual gearbox cars, which is driving the current prices up, as shown in the list above. Or am I missing something?

Thanks to all for our input,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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post #13 of 16 Old 10-25-2015, 08:23 AM
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Gianni- Not the same thing as 3 pedal V12s. There were 246 3 pedal 575Ms and over 4000 3 pedal 360s and likely over 2000 3 pedal F430s.

Taz
Terry Phillips

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Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #14 of 16 Old 10-25-2015, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Gianni- Not the same thing as 3 pedal V12s. There were 246 3 pedal 575Ms and over 4000 3 pedal 360s and likely over 2000 3 pedal F430s.
Hello Terry, do you know how many of the 246 3 pedal 575Ms went to the USA?

If you take 10% of the USA number, based on population, that would estimate the number in Canada, which I suspect is very small and likewise the main reason for not be able to find one, let alone buy one, here.

Thanks for the information,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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post #15 of 16 Old 10-26-2015, 07:58 AM
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Gianni- We do not know how many 3 pedal 575Ms came to the US, but a good guess would be 50-70. One just sold at Mecum's Monterrey auction for $385K, so I would say they are unaffordable now.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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Last edited by tazandjan; 10-26-2015 at 10:31 AM.
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post #16 of 16 Old 10-27-2015, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Gianni- We do not know how many 3 pedal 575Ms came to the US, but a good guess would be 50-70. One just sold at Mecum's Monterrey auction for $385K, so I would say they are unaffordable now.
WoW. Market has really gone insane.

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