360 Stradale Buyers - BEWARE! (ZFFDU57A040139182) - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-02-2015, 03:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Stradale Buyers - BEWARE! (ZFFDU57A040139182)

I want to start by saying that the car itself, as far as I know, is fine. It's the representation, and the people behind it, who are disgusting, and shouldn't be trusted. Also, this is gonna be a long post - so I apologize in advance...


Back in late March, I was contacted through Facebook by Matt O'Connor, a young guy in Arizona who, apparently, sells cars for a living. He routinely sends me VINs of Ferraris for my database; Ferraris he sees and/or sells - and this thread will ensure that he never sends me anything in the future - but this scam, and all of its perpetrators, need to be outed.

Anyway, in late March, Matt contacted me and said he had another VIN for me, "but there are complications." He said it was a car to which he had access to sell, but he was put under an NDA, and legally couldn't disclose the VIN, or say where it was and how he got it, unless I, too, signed an NDA.

"Send it over!" I said; I had no problem with signing it, and was rather intrigued. After I signed it and e-mailed it back to him, he said the car in question was ZFFDU57A040139182, the Stradale that used to be stored at Paul Walker's shop, Always Evolving Performance, in Valencia, CA; Paul didn't own the car ...but it was owned by Roger Rodas. So now, Roger's widow wants to sell it, and the asking price was $215,000.

A week later, a fellow FerrariChat member (who will go unnamed unless he wants to post in here himself) contacted me about a different Stradale that he was considering buying. But in the end he said, "It's a no go - but if you find a good Stradale keep me in mind."

So I said, "Actually, I know of one for sale..." And that began the start of what I thought was going to be a promising arrangement.

I went back and forth between Matt and the prospective buyer, negotiating to close the gap between the asking price and what the prospective buyer wanted to pay. The prospective buyer actually became more flexible with what he was willing to pay once he learned the car was owned by Roger Rodas. I should note here that I know the buyer, and we even have mutual friends. I once went to the Auto Gallery to inspect a different Ferrari for this guy, and I know the cars in his collection - it's a big collection, and it pales in comparison to his other interests. He's not a tire kicker; he could probably check his couch cushions and find the money to needed to buy this car. So when we started negotiations, I knew starting low was just that: starting. He asked me if the seller would take $180-190K.

I went to Matt and asked what the lowest was that Mrs. Rodas would take for 139182. He said "probably $210." I asked if she would consider $190K - he said, "I'm calling the broker, and seeing what his bottom line is." So Matt wasn't the only broker on that of the deal; he was going through someone else, who wanted to remain anonymous, even though he was supposed to be representing the car for Mrs. Rodas. This mystery prick later turned out to be some schmuck named Mark from Old American Iron. I threatened to sue, I even gave him all of my contact information to forward to his attorney, and the paperwork he promised I would receive in the mail still hasn't arrived.

Anyway, later that same day, Matt got back to me and said the lowest Rodas would go was $200K. I went back to the buyer and he went up to $193K; then, he got more aggressive and increased his offer to $200K - perfect, right? I went back to Matt and said the buyer would go to $200K, but that would include our commission(s).

Later that night, Mark was supposedly admitted to the hospital after an accident, pain pills rendered him incomprehensible, and Rodas still wouldn't go directly through Matt, so we had to wait.

The next day, I explained to Matt that the buyer was serious and ready to pull the trigger. If his offer of $200K was accepted, he would immediately wire $100K; immediately. Matt told me that the other broker "was thinking about it." Two days later, I was told that Mrs. Rodas still hadn't made up her mind.

Two days later, I hear back from Matt - he said, "Apparently, Rodas decided to sell it [139182] to her cousin in an effort to possibly buy it back in the future.. Idk."

So I went back to the buyer and broke the bad news. He immediately replied and said, "Offer $225K." That offer seemed to get everyone's intention, at which point they requested a Letter Of Intent - and to address it to Tim Noblett for some reason (whoever he is, I don't know, his name was never mentioned before the LOI came into the discussion). So the buyer immediately put one together. In the LOI, the buyer stated he was willing to pay between $210-225K depending on miles and condition; does the car come with all original luggage; the money would be wired in full upon inspection before the car is transported; and a $100,000 deposit would be sent immediately.

I sent the LOI, and then heard from Matt the following day:
"Yes. So, we sent over the LOI to attorney, and the family spoke with him. They liked the idea and still love the 225k number, but They weren't exactly thrilled with the 210-225k gap on the LOI. So, I'm working with them in the morning and to get all the details. I have been told the car was shipped to Tahoe to the cousin, and The transfer back to Mrs. Rhodas has to be agreed by a majority of the family or something. So, trying to speak to them first thing to get exactly what's going in that family meeting."
So I replied:
"There shouldn't be any issue with the mentioned gap in the LOI if the car is as-represented. The LOI is clear about the buyer taking the car at $225K if the car is as-described. And how did the car already get to Tahoe? It was just in Valencia...?!? It's taken multiple days for EVERYTHING to get through to this woman and get approved by her - but she CONSIDERS selling it to her cousin and it gets whisked away to Tahoe on the same day?!? Why do I feel like there isn't full disclosure here?"
Further discussion reveals that there's another broker involved - another mysterious jerkoff named Leonard. At this point, I ceased with the niceties and resorted to bluntness - where are we with this deal, wtf is it taking so long for her to make a decision, who are these other people and what is their relevance/involvement, do we have a deal or not?!?

A few days later, Matt sends me this message:
"Hey, wish I had better news, but the family has decided to keep the CS. Tell him that I'm sorry about the confusion that happened, and hopefully we can go forward. To try to keep him happy, I am absolutely willing to look for an exact car that wants, whether it would be another CS or another Ferrari for very close or at wholesale value, that I will make little or no commission whatsoever. And the little money that we could possibly make, would go straight to you."
At that point, I lost all patience. I told Matt to make sure that Mrs. Rodas and/or the mysterious other broker(s) contact me at their earliest convenience. With each passing day, I sent Matt lengthier and more aggressive messages, explaining that legal action seemed like my only logical recourse. A few days later, Matt replies and says, "Call this guy, his name is Mark - (623) 313-3310."

That same day, I hear from the buyer:
"Carbon - I am moving on. Sorry things didn't work out. No offense but wasted too much time and effort to buy a car and felt I dealt 100% in good faith. I don't believe anything the guys you work with is true."

As I said earlier, I called Mark, gave him all of my contact information, and I was promised paperwork from his attorney - my mailbox is still empty, my inbox is still empty, and I have no missed calls.

Ten days ago, the buyer sends me another message:
"I was told by a broker that the Stradale is still in her hands. The reason she didn't sell was she was told it could brong more money. Not sure how much but they want more - 250 275 who knows maybe they will tell you."

The buyer goes on to say that he still wants the car - and that if I can get it done, he'll triple my commission!

So I went back to Matt...
"Who is this Mark fellow, and how and why is he even involved in the first place? I heard today that the Stradale is still with Mrs. Rodas, and that the real reason she didn't sell was because she was told it could bring more money.

Call someone, talk to someone, I don't care what you do - I better get paid, or I'm gonna plaster this whole thing all over the Internet. And it'll take "Mark's" attorneys a long time to get those posts removed - IF he can get them removed - and it'll cost him a LOT of money. People will read and re-read my detailed comments for MONTHS, maybe even YEARS, before Mark's attorneys can MAYBE have them removed. And I will bump my threads as often as necessary, so that people are constantly reading how this whole thing was a scam. I will post the NDA, I will post the LOI, I will post clips of conversations, I will post everything; I will implicate EVERYONE: you, Mark, Old American Iron, Mrs. Rodas, Mark's attorneys - EVERYONE.

And now that we know she still has the car, my buyer is, miraculously, once again interested. If she thinks she can get more, and wants to hold on to the car, fine - I'll go ahead with everything I mentioned above. But if she wants to sell it to the person who submitted an offer, and a binding LOI(!), let's make the sale."
No reply. Five days later, I sent him another message and said I needed an answer that same day.

Matt's last reply:
"I don't know who your souce is, but what I was told is that Mrs. Rhodas does not have the car any more. They have specifically stated that it is with a cousin. Now, whether that's true or not, I can't confirm or deny it, as I do not have connection directly with the family and never had one. As for selling it goes, she has/had the right to sell it or not. As for everything else, I'm told that Mark will be sending over a few things shortly. I do not know what, when or anything. You'll have to speak to him about that."
So that's the whole ridiculous story in a nutshell. I'm told I should pursue legal action, since nothing in the LOI stated it was non-binding, therefore it's a bound document on its face value and needs to be honored. If anyone is familiar with the law surrounding these types of issues, I'd be very interested in learning. I will be cross-posting this thread everywhere, as well as tagging Matt O'Connor on Facebook - all in the hopes that these soulless pieces of **** actually try to sue me; at least then I'll get to see everyone's full names on court documents. I personally saw this car in Valencia, CA, two years ago. The pictures I took in March, 2013, were the only ones used in the attempted brokering of this car; Rodas, Matt O'Connor, Tim, Leonard, Mark - no one was able to even provide updated pictures of the car. I don't know if this whole thing was a scam from the very beginning, or if Rodas really did back out in the hopes of selling it for more money, or if she really decided to sell it to a family member with the option of buying it back later on. No matter what, I feel I'm owed compensation - not just for the work I put into trying to make this happen, but also for the business I lost, because the buyer will never again ask me to help him find a car. And I don't blame him one bit.

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post #2 of 21 Old 05-02-2015, 12:09 PM
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Carbon- Sounds like a thoroughly disgusting waste of time for you.

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post #3 of 21 Old 05-02-2015, 12:15 PM
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Carbon- Sounds like a thoroughly disgusting waste of time for you.
+1.

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post #4 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 05:06 AM
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Whatever happened to the good faith, honest deals, and gentlemen's agreement ?

How unfortunate to have to deal with such souls. I do not understand.

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post #5 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 05:11 AM
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Unfortunately I was the perspective buyer - all well documented. Carbon couldn't improvise if he so desired.

Read the thread over on F - chat.

I see no reason Carbon is deserving of anything but support for his service which is why I contacted Carbon originally as there was another Stradale which I found out thru Carbon it was in an accident - valuable information. Carbon then informed me he knew of another Red Stripe Stradale.

We were 7,000.00 apart - that's less than 4% again all this is well documented.

The idea of having a Stradale from the shop of Paul Walker next to the CGT price was secondary and I threw caution to the wind as negotiations went on.

On the other hand knowing how Rodas maintained his CGT it was assumed the Stradale would be no different and there were more than a few people involved so to keep everyone honest there was a carrot offered in the LOI.

A white Stradale came on the market at 200k - passed only because I was asked by the sellers representative for an LOI which was now over asking price and only required a visual inspection. The variance was to make sure all valuables Manuals Keys etc would not be subject to sticky fingers. Not once was the LOI found insufficient by the sellers representative.

Carbon simply needed to put an eye on the car - prior to that inspection I would wire 100k to show the level of commitment.

I posted a thread when there was no doubt in my mind the Stradale would be mine as the LOI offer was the asking price and went well above as were the commissions.

There is always a risk when buying a car - but Carbon brought the seller a buyer and for that reason he is owed a commission.

The fact is a buyer can make a seller sell but a seller can not make a buyer buy - but for have no desire to pursue.

Carbon's entire premise - the seller was not a seller and for that reason the deal did not go thru.
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Italian Lover View Post
Whatever happened to the good faith, honest deals, and gentlemen's agreement ?

How unfortunate to have to deal with such souls. I do not understand.

w/ smiles
Jimmy
Jimmy

That's the truth and also have no understanding.

Keep in mind I was also offered other cars in the collection and was seriously considering those cars and knew of someone who had purchased a car from that collection right before this debacle.
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 05:30 AM
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Jimmy

That's the truth and also have no understanding.

Keep in mind I was also offered other cars in the collection and was seriously considering those cars and knew of someone who had purchased a car from that collection right before this debacle.
Doug, sorry to hear you had to go through this.

Years ago, I was about to purchase this Miura and I had my share of unprofessional dealings by this broker that left me empty handed all because he did not live up to the promise and agreement and instead sold it to a higher bidder even after the handshakes. At the time, I did not let it bother me too much but it was not the right thing for him to do.

At the end of the day, things like such are not worth wasting more time for. Onward and upwards.

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post #8 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 06:39 AM
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Doug, sorry to hear you had to go through this.

Years ago, I was about to purchase this Miura and I had my share of unprofessional dealings by this broker that left me empty handed all because he did not live up to the promise and agreement and instead sold it to a higher bidder even after the handshakes. At the time, I did not let it bother me too much but it was not the right thing for him to do.

At the end of the day, things like such are not worth wasting more time for. Onward and upwards.

w/ smiles
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Thanks Jimmy for the empathy.

I was naive and posted showed pictures etc.

Sometimes peoples words are worthless and they do need to be left behind.

My closing words to Carbon were find better business associates - not those words of course.
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 08:21 AM
 
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Carbon- Sounds like a thoroughly disgusting waste of time for you.


Carbon, with all respect, you are just wasting more time even talking about it. But it in back of you and move on to the future.

Beyond venting, it's fruitless.
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post #10 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 02:33 PM
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Carbon, with all respect, you are just wasting more time even talking about it. But it in back of you and move on to the future.

Beyond venting, it's fruitless.
A major asset of this forum is venting in hopes for resolution.

My guess is most of the members originally showed up / posted because they had a problem and wanted to discuss it and seek the best resolution.

Would also venture to guess there is a method to Carbon's perceived madness - suggest giving Carbon the benefit of doubt this is how he has chosen to make a living.

Last edited by champagne612; 05-03-2015 at 03:16 PM.
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 04:41 PM
 
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A major asset of this forum is venting in hopes for resolution.

My guess is most of the members originally showed up / posted because they had a problem and wanted to discuss it and seek the best resolution.

Would also venture to guess there is a method to Carbon's perceived madness - suggest giving Carbon the benefit of doubt this is how he has chosen to make a living.
So he is here posting for his business? I guess that's none of my business.
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 05:05 PM
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So he is here posting for his business? I guess that's none of my business.
I have never been solicited but there was a fee for his services which were initiated by me. Would he like to find someone a car and get paid - yes.

I simply think he is making people aware of a bad group of people who represented the car was for sale. He shook the tree and it resulted in some interesting posts not here but on another site. One dealer publicly threatened to sue him for his NDA. Which makes no sense since I submitted the LOI and the VIN and I didn't submit to an NDA.

Carbon brought the seller a buyer at or above asking upon a simple visual inspection - again I think he has every right to tell the truth and awarded a commission.

Apologies - my response is based on the F chat thread and posts.

Simply venting
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-03-2015, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Doug, I am very grateful for your continued support; thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.gerbic View Post
Carbon, with all respect, you are just wasting more time even talking about it. But it in back of you and move on to the future.

Beyond venting, it's fruitless.
I have started other threads - albeit on a different forum - about cars with which potential buyers should be very wary. But since I didn't have any direct involvement with the buying or selling of those cars, those threads were deemed helpful, and were subsequently appreciated.

This thread however, both here and on another site, has received alternative tones. The only difference between this thread, and the "buyer beware" threads I've posted in the past, is that I was involved in this deal, and stood to make a commission. Irrespective of my gripe, potential buyers need still be aware of who's representing this car, how it's being (mis)represented, and the well-hidden fact that it's mired in legal complications.

The car itself is fine, as far as I know, and it was fine the last time I personally saw it. But I have learned considerably more about since starting this thread - and the information that's been given to me in the last couple of days is all red flags; all information I wish I knew before the deal began.

I am not a car salesman or broker. I am an informationist; a documentarian; an aspiring historian. My interest lies in documenting Ferraris, not selling them. However, I have sold a few Ferraris over the last decade, because I was in the right place at the right time, I had information that was relevant to the purchase(r), and either the buyer or the seller involved was a friend on each occasion.

I've been told that my posting about this situation makes me look petty. But if I wasn't directly involved in trying to broker this car, it wouldn't at all be petty; it would be informative, like my other threads. It's a bit confusing that I'm petty, and not at all helpful, simply because I was supposed to get paid.

A few weeks ago, I told Matt O'Connor that I felt I was owed a commission for my successful efforts in bringing a serious and committed buyer to the table. If the people involved quietly cut me a check, that wouldn't erase the fact that the car is still being represented by an ever-expanding group of very shady people. What if they cut me a check, and I kept my mouth shut? I wouldn't be petty, would I? I'd be a scumbag; I'd be one of them. What if they cut me a check and I still started this thread? Would that still make me petty? Or would it mean something else?

Yes, of course, just like anyone else, I would like to make money; I would like to be paid for my efforts. But my primary interest is, and always has been, documenting Ferraris, and informing the Ferrari community at large about various cars, model statistics, and the potential dangers associated with getting involved in any way with specific Ferraris that have sketchy history.

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post #14 of 21 Old 05-05-2015, 08:33 AM
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It's sad they didn't live up to thier word but I think you just have to suck this one up and in the future make sure they sign an agreement saying they have the sole right to negotiate on behalf of the owner and if not tell them to put you in touch with someone that can. I certainly wouldn't take any calls from Mark again regardless of what he's selling unless he's got the car and the title in hand.

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post #15 of 21 Old 05-10-2015, 09:54 AM
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-11-2015, 05:00 AM
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It's sad they didn't live up to thier word but I think you just have to suck this one up and in the future make sure they sign an agreement saying they have the sole right to negotiate on behalf of the owner and if not tell them to put you in touch with someone that can. I certainly wouldn't take any calls from Mark again regardless of what he's selling unless he's got the car and the title in hand.
You hit the nail on the head for me.

When a buyer commits it's expected the seller be able to perform in time of the essence especially after requesting an LOI.

Regardless I will continue to support Carbon as he brought the seller / broker a buyer - therefore he is at the very lest owed a commission and I hope / support him to bring this to court - where disputes are settled.

For 2500 - 7500 the selling representatives could have satisfied all parties.
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post #17 of 21 Old 05-11-2015, 05:02 AM
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Used car sales. Shocker.
Which is why it's important to show right from wrong.

For many people in business time is valued as their inventory - tell a lawyer his time is worthless or even better a judge.

Was I shocked - yes.
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post #18 of 21 Old 05-11-2015, 06:10 AM
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Oh, i didn't say people's time wasn't valuable. But I have bought used cars before and know what to be prepared for. Disappointment. Unless someone actually stole my money, it's just another day in the used car biz. Even well intentioned people can have the rug pulled out from them, specially when their are too many chiefs and not enough indians. If I knew I had at least three "brokers" (specially guys not in the biz, just chasing a commission) between me and the buyer, i would have had pretty low expectations of it going smoothly. By my count you had at least 5 people in this deal. Not counting other suitors and their "brokers" as well as various relatives, lawyers and possibly farm animals. Kinda hard to play telephone like that. Doesn't really let anybody off the hook for mis representation, but it also makes it hard to put anybody on the hook. All in all, wasted time. To be expected when buying anything. Frankly, I don't see much wrong with this scenario as presented. You had a bunch of guys trying to make a buck, when one or more doesn't, he starts looking to place blame. I'm sure it's much worse in real estate



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post #19 of 21 Old 05-11-2015, 08:00 AM
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Oh, i didn't say people's time wasn't valuable. But I have bought used cars before and know what to be prepared for. Disappointment. Unless someone actually stole my money, it's just another day in the used car biz. Even well intentioned people can have the rug pulled out from them, specially when their are too many chiefs and not enough indians. If I knew I had at least three "brokers" (specially guys not in the biz, just chasing a commission) between me and the buyer, i would have had pretty low expectations of it going smoothly. By my count you had at least 5 people in this deal. Not counting other suitors and their "brokers" as well as various relatives, lawyers and possibly farm animals. Kinda hard to play telephone like that. Doesn't really let anybody off the hook for mis representation, but it also makes it hard to put anybody on the hook. All in all, wasted time. To be expected when buying anything. Frankly, I don't see much wrong with this scenario as presented. You had a bunch of guys trying to make a buck, when one or more doesn't, he starts looking to place blame. I'm sure it's much worse in real estate
I see your side - too many cooks in the kitchen but that is more the norm than not when a private collection car is for sale.

In Real Estate - only purchase if it's a closed audience and it's a fast moving deal if it's on the the open market I have zero interest. A buyer can force a seller to sell but a seller can not force a buyer to buy.

When leasing - I spend all the money to court the tenant. Offer higher brokerage fees free architect whatever it takes and it works 80% of the time but I know that's part of the business.

So I see it all as just the opposite - there was a guaranteed sale the only variance was if it was as described or in a less than described condition. I am certainly entitled some room for a car that has not been visually expected.

For business expectancies - who knew that I was not going to flip the car and make 75k. As anyone can see this could get real ugly real quick.

I get the real seller may have an attachment to the car and for that reason no desire to push the seller to sell. Simply feel Carbon is owed a commission for bringing the seller a buyer in hopes this thread is printed in court
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post #20 of 21 Old 05-11-2015, 03:23 PM
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Good Luck Carbon! But it ain't gonna happen. That's why he is on here. next best thing. trash em online.



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