F430 Engine Vibration - Ferrari Life
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 Old 05-03-2014, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bradenton, FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 80
Engine Vibration

This may be an over the top question, but has anyone mounted a camera in the engine bay to watch engine/exhaust movement when driving? I'm still trying to eliminate the rattle that I think is coming from my Capristo brackets. They're installed correctly with a washer between the bracket and rear panel. I've changed the torque on the bolts several times to no avail. I was thinking if I could see what's happening when I get the rattle that might help me confirm that it is the brackets and perhaps help figure out a solution. I've pounded in the back and the only thing I heard movement from is the grill in my rear diffuser. Eliminating that was a quick fix.

Rich

2006 F430 Spyder, 2011 Carrera S & 2006 BMW M3
Member FCA Florida, Suncoast PCA & BMWCCA
RCBFL is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 05-03-2014, 09:48 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
tazandjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Ferrari Life Posts: 11,860
Rich- Many of those kinds of noises are caused by the exhaust hitting something. Noise changes as exhaust warms and also as torque is applied to the engine. Motor mounts, maybe, or exhaust mounts allowing the exhaust to hit a cross member or body part?

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
tazandjan is online now  
post #3 of 21 Old 05-03-2014, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bradenton, FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 80
Taz - anything is possible. The sound is of a lighter metal, but I certainly can't rule out what you've suggested. The motor mounts are new and the transmission mounts should be ok as a new clutch was installed by the dealer when I purchased the car. I'll do some more looking around to see if there are signs of something rubbing. I haven't been under the car yet, but plan to do so sometime in the near future just to assure myself that everything looks okay. I'm retired and spending time rolling around on a creeper isn't as easy as it once was

Rich

2006 F430 Spyder, 2011 Carrera S & 2006 BMW M3
Member FCA Florida, Suncoast PCA & BMWCCA
RCBFL is offline  
 
post #4 of 21 Old 05-08-2014, 03:57 AM
Owner
 
RichardCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Zurich for 23 years
Ferrari Life Posts: 416
Rich I have something else for you to consider, simply when the exhaust is cold, go round the back of the car and tap each exhaust tip cover (of the 4) with a screw driver handle or similar. Two of mine ring and this could be your cause as the welds have cracked inside the exhaust tip cover. In fact I think this is the sole cause of my vibration problem after a thorough investigation of the car today with underfloor off, its certainly not the Capristo HEADERS. Moving the washers on the Capristo BRACKETS just reduced the noise from the 2 broken tip covers. I tried two other 430's this morning and none of their exhaust tip covers were broken. I will cross post this on the Capristo Brackets thread. Please note this refers to broken or cracked welds on the Exhaust TIP COVERS, not the Exhaust BRACKETS. Noise travels through the exhaust, you can tap the metal exhaust header with a metal object, with the heat cover off and the Cracked TIP cover will ring all the way along at the end.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by RichardCH; 05-08-2014 at 07:45 AM.
RichardCH is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 05-09-2014, 04:16 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Ferrari Life Posts: 13
Vibrations

Hi everybody,
I have been referred to this thread and would like to give some information.
Ou Capristo exhaust bracket has the function to enable the exhaust to move
to the rear when being warm and to move to the front at cold condition. By means
of this exhaust bracket a lot of issues are avoided e.g. broken manifolds or broken
end tips. As a matter of fact the exhaust was firmly fixed to the gearbox previously
and now the exhaust is fixed to the chassis of the car. It is fixed to the traverse
where the bumper is also fixed too. The exhaust is lying on springs. Consequently
the vibrations caused by the exhaust should be absorbed by the springs. However,
if any vibrations are transferred and there are any components on the car (plates or
grilles) which are not completely fixed, then it could happen that these components
are made vibrating. One has to find those parts which are not completely fixed and
afterwards they have to be completely fixed. As a matter of fact with 1 or 2 of 10 sold
exhaust brackets our customers inform us about some vibration to be noticed.
However, after a throgough investigation, the reason for the vibration is found.
It is not the exhaust bracket itself, that is vibrating,but any other part of the vehicle.
However, a possible reason is that any part of the exhaust system has already any
kind of damage. I just try to imagine when the original manifolds have already cracked and the engine is being started, the exhaust would intend to expand , but
this is not possible because the original exhaust bracket is too riggid, the broken pipes get under pressure and, in consequence, they do not vibrate. Now at these
damaged manifolds the Capristo bracket is mounted. Our Capristo bracket allows the exhaust system to expand to the rear. Therefore the manifolds remain without any tension. And then the broken parts would vibrate as a consequence. This is
a theory of my own which is explaining to myself. In every case you should know that owing to the installation of the Capristo bracket your exhaust system is without any tensions and that will save a lot of issues in future. I hope that your manifolds
have not been impaired up to now so that they are already cracked. Perhaps you could try to put a piece of soft plastic between the mounting plate and the chassis
to isolate the exhaust a little bit from the chassis. It is all-important that all orignal Ferrari bracket parts are dismantled and that only the Capristo bracket remains on the car.

This is a short installation manual for the exhaust bracket so that you can see which OEM parts have to be removed. http://capristo.de/FTP/PDF/Ferrari-4...ng-holders.pdf

I hope that I could help you a little bit by means of this information.

Antonio
Capristo Exhaust is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 05-11-2014, 11:22 AM
Owner
 
RichardCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Zurich for 23 years
Ferrari Life Posts: 416
Rich, did you try this, where are you ??
RichardCH is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 05-11-2014, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bradenton, FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 80
I've been "banging" around my the rear of my car for awhile. I found a couple of small items that I could tighten, but nothing that would account for the rattle. I'm going to remove the rear diffuser and check everything from underneath. I've only had the car for 2 months and the Ferrari dealer I bought it from did do a through inspection of the car. I was there when it was on the lift and with the underneath panels off. Neither the mechanic or I found anything wrong, although at that point it didn't have the brackets and we weren't looking for a rattle.

I'm on the West Coast of FL and Capristo has an operation on the East Coast. If I don't find anything wrong I'll call them and see if I can bring the car over for an inspection.

Are you in FL?

Rich

2006 F430 Spyder, 2011 Carrera S & 2006 BMW M3
Member FCA Florida, Suncoast PCA & BMWCCA
RCBFL is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 05-12-2014, 02:17 AM
Owner
 
RichardCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Zurich for 23 years
Ferrari Life Posts: 416
so the problem is not any of your 4 tip covers if you tap them with a scewdriver handle ?
RichardCH is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 05-12-2014, 05:01 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Ferrari Life Posts: 13
Hello,
Also consider the possibility that maybe the headers have a tear. And fact is that the exhaust system no longer has this high tension, the broken part could be brought to vibrate.
The best would be, if you put the car on a dyno tester, and while someone drives, the other looks for what is vibrating.
Antonio
Capristo Exhaust is offline  
post #10 of 21 Old 05-12-2014, 06:38 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bradenton, FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 80
Richard - I did the test you suggested and didn't find anything. Antonio, thanks for the suggestion. Is paying for an inspection at your FL location possible?

Rich

2006 F430 Spyder, 2011 Carrera S & 2006 BMW M3
Member FCA Florida, Suncoast PCA & BMWCCA
RCBFL is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 05-13-2014, 09:27 PM
 
chenglo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Midwest
Ferrari Life Posts: 531
missing nut

independent ppi foundthat my f430 was missing a nut on one of the exhaust brackets near the tail pipes. not visible unless the rear diffuser was off if im correct. dealer ran thru the car b4 it went to ppi also. if you didnt check, might be worth a look to make sure all nuts and bolts are accounted for.
chenglo1 is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old 05-14-2014, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bradenton, FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 80
Cheng - thanks for the suggestion.

Rich

2006 F430 Spyder, 2011 Carrera S & 2006 BMW M3
Member FCA Florida, Suncoast PCA & BMWCCA
RCBFL is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old 05-14-2014, 08:51 AM
Owner
 
RichardCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Zurich for 23 years
Ferrari Life Posts: 416
taking the F430 diffuser off is a very simple job
RichardCH is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old 05-16-2014, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bradenton, FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 80
Took the diffuser off and checked everything. Nothing loose, broken etc. The rattle occurs 2,600 - 2,800 rpm. With the vehicle stationary I had my son bring the rpm up to that range and we could hear the rattle. I pushed down on the Capristo braket with a wooden handle and the rattle stopped. There's no question that's what's making the noise. I'm going to tighten the bolts more when the car cools down and will then check it to make see if it rattles and to make certain that there's still movement. My instinct is that it needs some high heat abrasion resistant material to insulate the washers from the bracket. Possibly nylon washers.

Rich

2006 F430 Spyder, 2011 Carrera S & 2006 BMW M3
Member FCA Florida, Suncoast PCA & BMWCCA

Last edited by RCBFL; 05-16-2014 at 11:40 AM.
RCBFL is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 05-16-2014, 07:38 PM
Owner
 
yronZFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: FIVE-O
Ferrari Life Posts: 56
This is how much my bolts are tightened. My exhaust moves as it should when it gets hot (and moves back when it cools down) and I don't have any rattles.

Good luck and hope you fix your rattle!
Attached Images
 
yronZFF is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 05-17-2014, 09:48 AM
Owner
 
RichardCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Zurich for 23 years
Ferrari Life Posts: 416
I'm not entirely sure nylon would be a good idea, if there is heat transmission it will melt, I remember I once forgetfully put some locking nuts on my exhaust mounts, the nylon locking rim melted within 5 miles, if the bracket is fully secure to the cross member, just tighten up the spring bolts
RichardCH is offline  
post #17 of 21 Old 05-17-2014, 10:03 AM
Owner
 
StefVan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Switzerland
Ferrari Life Posts: 2,354
I agree with Richard, don't put anything else there than high temperature resistant material.


Rich, don't hesitate to tight these bolds really tight. It will not be a problem for the brackets to still move backwards with the heat. If you have a chance, please post a picture of your brackets so that we can see how its installed.
StefVan is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 05-18-2014, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bradenton, FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 80
I worked on this some more yesterday. Being I could hear the noise when the car was stationary while revving the engine, I had my son work the throttle and I carefully (very hot) adjusted the bolts. The noise decreased significantly although there's still some at a low rpm. The top springs are almost completely compressed meaning there's only a very small gap between the top 2 washers. I don't get as much forward/rear movement on the bracket as I had. The bolts will turn if I twist them by hand so I don't think they're too tight.

What do you think and thank you for all your help.

Rich

2006 F430 Spyder, 2011 Carrera S & 2006 BMW M3
Member FCA Florida, Suncoast PCA & BMWCCA
RCBFL is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 05-19-2014, 01:15 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Ferrari Life Posts: 13
Hello Stef, long time since I heard from you. I hope everything is well. I don't think that the springs or washers can vibrate because there are springs on top and at the bottom, so these washers are constantly under pressure. But, when I now look at the picture, I see that the exhaust system grows very much. I think this picture was made in a warm condition. I assume that the big, black bracket that is screwed on the chassy, that this vibrates against the frame. I would try something very simple. When the engine is cold, then you have a space of about 2-3mm between frame and black bracket. I would take some black silicone and inject it in between. And then, don't start the car anymore until the silicone has completely hardened. If it is this plate, that is touching the frame, then the silicone should insulate it from the frame. But I would exclude, that it is the washers, on the condition that all 8 springs have been installed.

Of course, you can also drive to Taurino with the car. I can then also have a look at it over Skype and maybe we can then find a solution. But I would first try that with the silicone.

Ciao Antonio
Capristo Exhaust is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 05-19-2014, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bradenton, FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 80
Attached are pics of my brackets with the engine cold. There's enough space between the bracket and the rear of the car that I don't believe that's causing the rattle. As you can see from the pics with the mirror, the top spring is almost fully compressed. The last pic shows how much of a bolt is extending below the bracket.
Attached Images
             

Rich

2006 F430 Spyder, 2011 Carrera S & 2006 BMW M3
Member FCA Florida, Suncoast PCA & BMWCCA
RCBFL is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale