F430 Price check 2005 F430 - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 24 Old 02-04-2014, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Price check 2005 F430

Hi all,

I'm considering purchasing my first Ferrari and wondering what kind of deal you think this is.

2005 F430 Spyder
33,000 miles
Carbon fiber seats
No accidents
70% F1 clutch
Ceramic disc brakes
Service records available
Upgraded sound system
Annual service due now
Tinted front lights and tail lights (not sure if this decreases value)
Painted wheels
$95k

What kind of loss am I looking at if I keep this car for two years and put about 15k miles on it, including expected maintenence?

Thank you for the insight!
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-04-2014, 09:53 PM
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Doc- Welcome to Ferrari Life. Very low price for an F430, if she checks out well. You can expect the depreciation to be pretty light at that price, even with 50% more mileage. If I knew exactly how much she would depreciate, I would be making a killing on the stock market using the same crystal ball.

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post #3 of 24 Old 02-04-2014, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Doc- Welcome to Ferrari Life. Very low price for an F430, if she checks out well. You can expect the depreciation to be pretty light at that price, even with 50% more mileage. If I knew exactly how much she would depreciate, I would be making a killing on the stock market using the same crystal ball.
Thanks! When I was trying to figure it out, I looked at 2003 360s with 50k miles as a comparison and it's hard to find Ferraris with such high miles, which worries me. The one that I did find was about 70k, so it may have another 25k depreciation in two years based on that?
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 02:58 AM
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At that price, it's almost fully depreciated. That's even high 360 money. So there probably won't be much depreciation in two years, even with twice the mileage.

That said, I'd want to know why it was priced so low. A VERY thorough PPI is called for.

I believe the reason you don't find many high mileage ones for sale is that they're such great cars. So second and third owners are keeping and driving them.

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post #5 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the insight, guys. Do you recommend doing the PPI at a dealership or independent mechanic? Sounds like a great deal.
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post #6 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by studentdoc View Post
Thank you for the insight, guys. Do you recommend doing the PPI at a dealership or independent mechanic? Sounds like a great deal.
The PPI depends on the resources available to you. I had my PPI done at a dealer, but later wished I had done it at my independent mechanic because he's better.
If you have access to a GOOD, highly recommended, reputable independent mechanic with the right computers for the Ferrari, go with the independent.

Also, with regard specifically to this car, I'm not exactly sure of the color (would venture to guess it's Rosso), but that car is gonna be hard to sell. If you buy it, you're going to have a tough time selling it. Are you willing to put in the money (which might be quite a lot) to get it into a "sellable" condition? That means, largely, making it as close to OEM spec and appearance as is financially possible? also, I realize 33,000 miles on a 9 year old car doesn't seem like a lot, but that car is "high mileage" for a Ferrari. FWIW, my 2001 360 Spider has >21,000 miles on it, and I'm proud.

Also, with those miles, do you know if the car has any history as a "rental" vehicle? Do you know the condition of the brakes? Ceramic brakes are horrifyingly expensive to replace. I'm just worried about this car because there could be a great deal of "hidden" consequence here, and also I believe it will be tough to re-sell. That just means you're gonna lose more money.

Good luck.
Raj

PS: Remember the immortal advice of EVERY Ferrari purchase: if you can't afford a good one, you sure as hell can't afford a bad one.
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 09:29 AM
 
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The dealership to do the PPI???--- The expression about foxes and hen-houses comes to mind.

Jerry
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post #8 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
 
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The car is silver. I am worried about finding a buyer later
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 04:15 PM
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You will ALWAYS find buyers for a Ferrari. The questions are the market and car's condition at time of sale. That will determine what those buyers are willing to pay.

Whether you feel it's rational or not, a modern Ferrari with 50,000 miles is considered high. That will definitely drive it at the low end of the market.

I think you have a much bigger concern with the CURRENT asking price. Ninety-five is significantly below current market, even if you adjust for the winter season. You should very carefully determine why. A low-priced car is a common sign the car needs significant work. As an example, if the car needed new CCR brakes, that 95 purchase price brings you right to market value, and you haven't even done the annual service yet...

If depreciation and the back end sale are such concerns for you, it's probably not the right car. I suggest you consider a 360.

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post #10 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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I realize depreciation is part of the game as I've owned several imports - just never a Ferrari. My guess about why the price is low is:

1.) The smoked lights and engine cover
2.) The aftermarket sound system
3.) 35k miles with signs of it (wrinkled and faded leather)
4.) Needs some at least two tires after seeing it

I agree that 50k miles on this car is high which is why I'm worried about resale. I just couldn't find a 360 with comparable miles to get an idea of what this car will be worth in 2 years.

Do I have to replace it with those brakes? Apparently, another prospect had the car inspected at the dealer but found another car, so that report will be available to me. Going to look into it a bit more and see.
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post #11 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 06:50 PM
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Those four items do not make it $30K below market.

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post #12 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 08:56 PM
 
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hi

Hi Doc. I'm with Killer. The items you listed are NOT worth a 30K price reduction IF that is where the market is for a decent '05. I havent looked lately but i bought my '06 a little less than a year ago. hence, i will give you my 0.02 to answer your questions.

1. PPI at a good independent is better. Those guys are not invested in the cars in any way shape or form. It's their lifeline to check out cars, trouble shoot and fix. They do not sell cars....well usually i think. I had a couple of dealers tell me all they will do is go down the checklist they have and then collect my 500 to 1200.00 I was lucky in that someone on here recommended a local shop where my car was being sold.

2. The list price on my red/tan F430 was $138.5K in spring of 2013 and my car is totally stock (no CCB's) with all records since new AND one owner. Oh and 12K miles back then. Your car in question is an '05 but with more bells and whistles, big thing being the CCB's which demands a higher asking price. Something jsut doesn't fit here. 30K miles is not a whole lot. If car needed nothing, i can see seller asking 115K which would be a 20K price diference. 125K remotely possible if the car was immaculate. Also, when you say 70% clutch is that the remaining life or worn %? The F430 is/was suposed to be the most reliable Ferrari at the time. Therefore if your PPI checks out and little is needed besides fluids and a checkup (500-1000$), buy it for 95K. However, my gut and 1 years worth of shopping tells me that there is something fishy going on. Especially when another interested party walked away and conveniently found something else.

3. I also think at this moment in time, the $95K is getting really close to bottoming out on the F430. Think about it, top end 360's demand 90k plus!

4. RED sells faster if you are looking at resale.

Feel free to PM if you want. Happy to give back to the community!
Good luck!
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by chenglo1 View Post
Hi Doc. I'm with Killer. The items you listed are NOT worth a 30K price reduction IF that is where the market is for a decent '05. I havent looked lately but i bought my '06 a little less than a year ago. hence, i will give you my 0.02 to answer your questions.

1. PPI at a good independent is better. Those guys are not invested in the cars in any way shape or form. It's their lifeline to check out cars, trouble shoot and fix. They do not sell cars....well usually i think. I had a couple of dealers tell me all they will do is go down the checklist they have and then collect my 500 to 1200.00 I was lucky in that someone on here recommended a local shop where my car was being sold.

2. The list price on my red/tan F430 was $138.5K in spring of 2013 and my car is totally stock (no CCB's) with all records since new AND one owner. Oh and 12K miles back then. Your car in question is an '05 but with more bells and whistles, big thing being the CCB's which demands a higher asking price. Something jsut doesn't fit here. 30K miles is not a whole lot. If car needed nothing, i can see seller asking 115K which would be a 20K price diference. 125K remotely possible if the car was immaculate. Also, when you say 70% clutch is that the remaining life or worn %? The F430 is/was suposed to be the most reliable Ferrari at the time. Therefore if your PPI checks out and little is needed besides fluids and a checkup (500-1000$), buy it for 95K. However, my gut and 1 years worth of shopping tells me that there is something fishy going on. Especially when another interested party walked away and conveniently found something else.

3. I also think at this moment in time, the $95K is getting really close to bottoming out on the F430. Think about it, top end 360's demand 90k plus!

4. RED sells faster if you are looking at resale.

Feel free to PM if you want. Happy to give back to the community!
Good luck!
Thanks for the great feedback. The asking price was $115k now $105k. Got it to $95k. Car hasn't sold for months. I will find out about the details on the % clutch and brakes. It's silver on black (not red). I may go for it, but I'll have it checked out again by my own independent if that ends up being the decision. I am going to get the report from the dealer's PPI to see any red flags as well. The brakes do squeak a lot - but the owner said that is normal for the CCB?

The community you guys have here is really great and appreciated. Thank you.

Last edited by studentdoc; 02-05-2014 at 11:57 PM.
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post #14 of 24 Old 02-06-2014, 03:14 AM
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Remember- The most expensive Ferrari is a cheap one.

There's a reason that car is not selling.

You're clearly being tempted by the seemingly low price, which is distracting you from some potentially costly warning signs. Understandable, and a common mistake.

Caveat Emptor

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post #15 of 24 Old 02-11-2014, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Many thanks to everybody who has helped me on this board, and an additional thank you to Cheng for reaching out to me and giving me a lot of insight into the buying process. It's tough buying that first one...

I was just at the dealership where the seller had the car serviced to get records, and the issues the car has had are as follows:

1.) The front bumper & windshield were replaced through insurance as a result of sand and pebbles causing damage. I spoke with the insurance company and they verified it was NOT a collision and the seller wanted replacement instead of repair.

2.) The F1 system had a problem that was corrected with a roughly $8,000 repair. The invoice shows as "268 CF" for $1755 and "Pipe kit" for $5400 and "Control valve" for $850

3.) Check engine light is on and the dealer ran a test and said the error codes show O2 sensor (something apparently exclusive to cars in CA) is bad and another for misfiring that they are stating is likely caused by the O2 sensor.

The clutch and carbon ceramic brakes have 70% remaining. The interior has obvious signs of wear and tear (fading & wrinkled black leather). The exterior is silver.

I will likely take this for a PPI this week or next, unless you guys see red flags and/or problems now or with reselling in the future.

Thank you again!
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post #16 of 24 Old 02-11-2014, 07:38 PM
 
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Was it a ferrari dealership? Just curious if it was like a Bobs auto plaza or sometjing. Hopefully not. Is seller going to pay service center to fix cel issue b4 you bring to ppi? If not you might be inheriting gremlins. Id defer ppi until seller and service cntr eliminate cel issues or o2 issues. Your money for ppi might go further without these issues taking up your inspectors time. As I stated before there are lots of f430s to choose from especially in your geographic location.

I think theres like 7 in my state maybe plus or minus 1 or 2. And none for sale!
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-11-2014, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by chenglo1 View Post
Was it a ferrari dealership? Just curious if it was like a Bobs auto plaza or sometjing. Hopefully not. Is seller going to pay service center to fix cel issue b4 you bring to ppi? If not you might be inheriting gremlins. Id defer ppi until seller and service cntr eliminate cel issues or o2 issues. Your money for ppi might go further without these issues taking up your inspectors time. As I stated before there are lots of f430s to choose from especially in your geographic location.

I think theres like 7 in my state maybe plus or minus 1 or 2. And none for sale!
This was a Ferrari dealership - the one that he goes to and has a relationship with. I didn't think of having the seller pay to fix the issue, but I can certainly ask them to. Craig who will do the PPI mentioned that the dealer can easily turn off the light and reset it, so he would not know what the issue is. So I thought it would be better to leave it for the PPI to fully inspect... and then if all checks out, either negotiate fixing the error with the seller or have him fix it prior to purchasing. Bad move?

There are many F430s to choose from... not at this price, but I don't mind paying more for peace of mind. Thanks again Cheng!
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-11-2014, 08:10 PM
 
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Craig will sort it out for you. Yes at that price point theres not much. I saw one last year for under 100k but it had 50k miles at least and was a rental car.

Craig at fastcars will impress you for sure. In addition ifvyou get it and issues arise craig can service the car for you for prbly less than the dealers. He can give you great examples of how some repairs go thru the roof due to inaccurate diagnostics. Good luck. Tell him I said hi.
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-11-2014, 08:15 PM
 
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btw

If there happens to be a red 2007 with 32k miles at a local ferrari dealer I may consider that one first. Ferrari deslers are usually more skepticsl about what they are selling. Ie they would be unlikely to sell you a problem car because that may give them a bad rep down the road. I know u dont really like red so thats out of the question. However for resale I think red sells faster if 2 cars were identical otherwise.
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-11-2014, 08:38 PM
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Caveat Emptor

As mentioned - the most expensive Ferrari is the cheap one to buy. If it needs work just to bring it to par- new CCBs, F! work etc= it can rapidly approach the price of a pristine low mileage equivalent model. And don't expect to get that money back when you sell- we expect it and demand it to be perfect. That is why the buyers guides say buy the best, newest model you can afford. We also know that we are such snobs that a replaced bumper dings a car tremendously and makes them pariah cars not worthy of us! We want pristine 8 year old cars that need nothing and look perfect.


OTOH, once a car is on the market for a while, stigmatized, the price has to drop to sell. I looked at a 2007 612 priced low- 35K miles with an extra set of wheels etc. It was sub 100k, and went lower. It needed service and some interior leather work. The owner offered to do the service and the leather work. I told the broker no, because I did not want to low ball him. The next week it was listed for my low ball offer. Someone got a good deal.



Then OTOOH, remember the interweb is for forever- just like home buyers know your home's price history, imagine that the next buyer will also know your cars- cached sites make that possible. CARFAX is one step away from such data. If depreciation is really a factor for you, and you may need to sell quickly- be prepared to take a hit.


I would inspect it thoroughly, consider a warranty against big things and if it moves you, buy it for that reason.

Two things my father taught me -
A cheap Ferrari isn't and if it is too good to be true, it is.


ScottS

I have regretted often, but repented never. Is this a good thing? -Enzo Ferrari
2012 California Argento Nurburgring /Nero 2005 F430 Nero 6spd. 2009 Maserati GT-S F1
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