360 Clutch Wear Indicator Using SD2 - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 01-19-2013, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Clutch Wear Indicator Using SD2

Several months back I purchased my 2004 Ferrari 360 with the F1 transmission and during the inspection, the clutch wear using the SD2 was about 5% ... that seemed a bit low for a car with 16,000 miles, but the seller indicated that the clutch was replaced by the owner prior to him. There was no service record for clutch replacement, but everything else checked out fine on the car, and so far I am pleased with it and it keeps putting a smile on my face. But, I am now starting to think that maybe the seller's comments about the clutch may not be factual ...

Fast forward to present ... I now have about 19,000 miles on the car and the car is starting to exhibit some early symptoms of clutch wear ... noticed today it missed a shift and once on my drive it shifted out of gear to neutral. Now maybe this is just coincidental, but got me to thinking.

- The car has 19,000 miles ... maybe is really the original clutch
- The seller of the car ... could he have enlisted the help of a service guy to reset the clutch wear indicator using an SD2 or similar device. Knowing that I was going to have an inspection performed, could some one proactively reset the indicator so that during inspection it would give a reading that I indicated above?

So my question to the community with more experience than I ... Is it possible the scenarios I described above? Or am I being paranoid? Not that a new clutch is going to break the bank, but I don't like the thought of being deceived either.

Thanks for any help and advice ...

Steve
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post #2 of 13 Old 01-20-2013, 08:20 AM
 
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Hi Steve, it is possible to play with the SD2 number on clutch wear. They could have reset the clutch wear. With the SD2 , you would have to look at a few different numbers and see if they altered the set up. I have had ferrari's at my shop and noticed that the clutch system is not working properly. I noticed someone as altered the setup.
You would have to check the clutch again . It's also possible the clutch sensor was not change and it's losing it's position.
Good luck and let me know .
Thanks
Alex.
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post #3 of 13 Old 01-20-2013, 08:33 AM
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Steve- You can visually inspect clutch wear through the inspection ports. Have PIS reset and let your technician check the clutch and see if she needs replacement. The wear indication you get from the SD2 is an estimate based on a lot of factors and is nowhere near a precision measurement.

Taz
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post #4 of 13 Old 01-20-2013, 08:52 AM
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Since you are the owner of the car now, you have access to all service records. Call the closest dealer and they can check.

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post #5 of 13 Old 01-20-2013, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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I did not know there was inspection ports on the 360. I will look for them. Can you tell me where these ports are?

When I bought the car I talked to dealer and they did not have record of clutch replacement, but that would not have ruled out replacement by an Indy shop.

The cynical side of me is thinking that my clutch may be near EOL as I have just over 19,000 miles on car nearly 9 yrs old. I have read that clutch life can vary a lot and as Taz and others have pointed out in many of these posts, overall life is highly dependent on how the car is used (or abused). I am thinking from the many posts that 20,000 miles or so is pretty common. But, have read of some who have experienced a lot less and a lot more.

I have been trying to adopt the habit of not downshifting in normal traffic to slow down, being cognizant of when the clutch engages in first gear before applying a lot of power and not selecting too high a gear in stop and go traffic. I believe this forum has really helped develop my driving technique.

If it comes to a new clutch, I might be able to make lemonade from that lemon as I will be assured of a good clutch, TO bearing, seals, etc and then I can be the master of how it will be in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Steve- You can visually inspect clutch wear through the inspection ports. Have PIS reset and let your technician check the clutch and see if she needs replacement. The wear indication you get from the SD2 is an estimate based on a lot of factors and is nowhere near a precision measurement.
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post #6 of 13 Old 01-20-2013, 09:11 AM
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Mark- There is no central repository for service records on older cars. Do not even think there is for newer cars.

Taz
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post #7 of 13 Old 01-21-2013, 11:55 AM
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Altering the "new clutch thickness" with an Sd2 changes the wear percentage, since it's just an extrapolation of a couple of factors. I've seen clutch thickness changed to make clutch life look higher. However, this does not mean that this is the case here. If the Clutch was not set-up properely when replaced (very common, i'm afraid!) then not only will the clutch wear reading be totaly wrong, but it can also wear much, much quicker.

The 2004 software within the control unit is very good, and high mileages can be achieved between changes if set-up correctly and consequently driven properely.

You really need to see if you can find evidence of the clutch replacement.....
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post #8 of 13 Old 01-21-2013, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bisel View Post
Fast forward to present ... I now have about 19,000 miles on the car and the car is starting to exhibit some early symptoms of clutch wear ... noticed today it missed a shift and once on my drive it shifted out of gear to neutral. Now maybe this is just coincidental, but got me to thinking.
Steve

Steve....here are some things to keep in mind from a guy who has an F1 360 with 45k miles on it...

When mine started doing that a few weeks ago - it led me to think the same thing. After spending 5 hours in the bay with a Ferrari tech at a Ferrari dealer...I found that the first step to handleing this problem without replacing the clutch is to have your guy adjust the PIS with an SD2. It will cycle thru the gears and adjust the PIS to a point best suited with the current clutch wear - regardless of what it is in terms of percentage.

2nd....a couple of points to make a note of regarding the "pop into neutral at stopping or pop into neutral then upshift to 3rd higher gear" issue:
- did it happen when you had been driving it for a while / stop and go traffic / mid range engine temp and oil temp?
- Did you lift throttle when it was in process of shifting...before making sure the shift had fully occured? ...or....
- Did you push throttle past 5k range before shifting while in 2nd or 3rd gear - after having been in stop and go traffic immediately prior?

That was when mine would do it....and the PIS re-adjust solved this issue for the most part....along with being more mindfull of when a shift had finished / throttle etc.

Every car of course will be a little different - and I have put 1500 miles on mine in the spanse of 45 days...partly because I love to drive it, but also because If something is gonna break - I want to know sooner than later. Mine has changed 1% since 500 miles of my driving....so 1k miles and 1% wear per SD2...YMMV depending on how you drive yours, but go for the easy stuff first...

If after the PIS adjust it still doesnt clear that issue up 99% better - have them look to see if there is any gear or other oil along the walls of the clutch housing. I was told by my tech and a fellow 360 owner I met a week ago, is the best way to know clutch is gone on an F1 360 is when you shift with steady throttle pressure - and the revs jump before the shift is completed. If that happens - park her and get it replaced before you get stranded somewhere.

Otherwise - it should be something that SD2 or other adjustments can fix.

Oh...and lastly... in the words of my Ferrari Tech:

" Are there any lights / warnings On? No? Does it sound good and drive well after warm up? Yes? Does it leak oil or smoke? ...No?....well then stop worrying yourself and me so damn much, stop looking for a way to pay me money for no reason, and go drive that beautiful ride like it should be driven!"


Last edited by CBOND2X07; 01-21-2013 at 12:59 PM. Reason: left part of quote out
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post #9 of 13 Old 01-21-2013, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, CBOND ... I will trot it over to my tech and have him put in on the SD2 and run through those steps.

Had it out today and it was fine, but I was not pushing hard at all. On Sunday I was pushing it a bit when I noticed those symptoms. To address your questions:
  • Was not stop and go traffic ... open road. Pushing it a bit with hard acceleration (but not abusive at all)
  • Did not lift throttle
  • Engine temp / oil temp well inside normal range
You did mention that if the revs climb before shift is complete, that might be an indicator of clutch wear. If I gently accelerate ... this is not noticeable ... I would say it does not occur. But the stronger I accelerate, with steady throttle applied, I do notice revs climbing before shift is complete. It is not severe ... if I had describe it ... it is almost like double clutching when downshifting ... only I am up-shifting.

Taz ... I appreciate your comments about the clutch wear as an indicator only and not an accurate gauge. I do have two prior SD2 readings of wear indicators ... one in September and one in early December. So I can compare when I see my tech.

I'll update when I know more.

Thanks, guys.

Steve
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post #10 of 13 Old 01-24-2013, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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I had my car out to my tech. He put the SD2 on and cycled the transmission through shifting sequence. All checked out well. The PIS is set at 4.7 and the car does not creep in 1st gear ... engages at about 1100 rpm (idles at 1050). So everything is fine on that front. Clutch wear shows 29% at 19,000 miles. In October, clutch wear was showing 27% and that was 2500 miles ago. So, the wear indicator is not indicating anything untoward.

My tech is a former Ferrari test driver ... something like 20 years experience working for Ferrari in Italy ... we went for test drive and he gave the car a clean bill of health. Could not duplicate any symptom I experienced (one missed shift and shifting out gear into neutral). Soooo ... maybe I fat fingered the shift paddle. It would not beyond me to do that. He also said the slight hesitation that I complained about when shifting up is normal. And when down shifting, the car "double clutches" as it should. Bottom line, I was told to stop worrying and drive the car. He said that if the car frequently falls out to neutral, bring it back ... but in mean time he thinks it is fine.

Guys, this is my first Ferrari ... my dream car so to speak ... maybe I am just nervous about what might go wrong and "feel" things that are not there ... but am sure having some fun!

Steve
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post #11 of 13 Old 01-24-2013, 01:00 PM
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Steve- It is normal to be a bit paranoid at first and one reason is you did not understand what was happening. Now that you can say things like PIS and know what they mean, that paranoia should fade rapidly. The biggest problem with many Ferrari is just having somebody you can trust that can maintain her, and you do not have that problem. So not to worry, if anything breaks, your tech can fix it. Like he said, just enjoy driving her, maintain her by the book or a bit better, and she will treat you well.

Taz
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post #12 of 13 Old 01-24-2013, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bisel View Post
.....Guys, this is my first Ferrari ... my dream car so to speak ... maybe I am just nervous about what might go wrong and "feel" things that are not there ... but am sure having some fun!

Steve

BOY DO I KNOW THAT SAME FEELING!!!

It seems I am not the only one who spent the first month of F-Ownership as a worrying-ninny who kept (and sometimes keeps) finding some strange occurance or noise to panic about.

Good to know I am in good company.
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post #13 of 13 Old 03-05-2013, 07:10 AM
 
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Gear go netural all in a sudden

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBOND2X07 View Post
BOY DO I KNOW THAT SAME FEELING!!!

It seems I am not the only one who spent the first month of F-Ownership as a worrying-ninny who kept (and sometimes keeps) finding some strange occurance or noise to panic about.

Good to know I am in good company.
Dear All
First of all, all info are so useful for me
I am driving a spider 360 Year 2001 RHD
I got the same problem, no matter I was driving smoothly and hardly
No matter on highway or in traffic jam, after a while the gear jump to neutral
but mine one got the bonnet lip open light on, so the dealer helped me changed the sensor
but problems didnt go, then the dealer checked for couple days and told me that the F1 control was leaking oil in turn the pressure is not high enough to change the gear. And they changed that parts for me, and they told me my wear of the clutch was 40% but after changing the parts
all in a sudden the wear was up to 70% and they ask me to change the clutch. I found that it was very strange.
Kindly chip in what do you think ?
Tks for million
Ron from Hong Kong
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