F430 Exhaust Flange Leak - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 01-06-2013, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Exhaust Flange Leak

I recently replaced the exhaust on my 360 with a used F430 exhaust system. I have noticed that at start-up when cold, as the water condensation begins to form, that water is pooling up on the top surface of the exhaust flange (where the muffler mates to the exhaust tips) and also a small leak of condensate from between the the flanges indicating a bad seal / gasket. I removed the muffler and examined the mating surfaces to discover that the bottom flange plate (on the exhaust tips) is not perfectly flat. There is small gap between the mating surfaces that is measurable when mating the muffler flange ... maybe 0.020" when measured with no gasket in place. It appears that using a new gasket is not going to fix this problem as the gasket material is fairly thin and in order to seal properly, the two flange surfaces need to be more flat than is the case. In addition, I suspect that the weld around one of the exhaust pipes at the joint to the flange may need repair.

I am going to try to use a flat file and some elbow grease to see if I can get the bottom flange a bit more flat. Also, see about getting the pipe / flange weld renewed.

Next question ... has anyone used Permetex Ultra Copper RTV Silicone? It is rated to 700 deg F. I have seen several reference in other forums (Corvette and others) where this product has been used successfully, especially in cases where flanges may not be perfect. I am thinking of applying a coat of that compound to both sides of the exhaust gasket, hopefully, to fill any minor voids.

Last question ... has anyone substituted the single dual-hole gasket and used two donut exhaust gaskets that one can acquire at NAPA, etc.

I am attaching a pic of the water condensate collecting on the top left side flange. Appreciate any comments.

Steve
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post #2 of 9 Old 01-07-2013, 04:48 AM
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You can buy thicker aftermarket exhaust gaskets that are made from a compressible material on eBay. Might be easier than filing down metal.
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post #3 of 9 Old 01-07-2013, 05:33 AM
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Steve- Take the exhaust manifold to a machine shop and have them true all the mounting surfaces together. Hard to do much accurately with a file.

Taz
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post #4 of 9 Old 01-07-2013, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Steve- Take the exhaust manifold to a machine shop and have them true all the mounting surfaces together. Hard to do much accurately with a file.
That would, of course, be the correct thing to do, Terry. It is not really the exhaust manifold. It is the flange that keeps the exhaust tips together and mates to the flange on the muffler. But to do that, I have remove the rear bumper and take off the exhaust tips, the studs are tack welded to the underside of the flange so those would have to be removed. So am going to try to file away a bit of high spot first and then also try a thicker gasket that Voicey suggested. That work is easy to do and only requires a bit of my time and effort and is low cost ... if all that fails, then to plan B.

Steve
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-07-2013, 10:10 AM
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Steve- Does sound like a bit of work to remove. With the thicker gasket. If you do have to remove, a large belt sander would do the job with the correct medium.

Taz
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post #6 of 9 Old 01-07-2013, 10:22 AM
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I have a lot of experience using the Ultra Copper on the race cars and some muscle cars and really swear by the stuff. Also used it in conjunction with double gaskets or thicker gaskets etc. For small leaks the stuff is great. If you have a huge gap you might need to do more but I would give the Ultra Copper a try.

I've recomended it to a lot of friends headers and muscle cars and it usually takes care of the problem.

On the racecars I've only used it when I have had a problem getting the gaskets to seal alone but I think on any application where I wasn't planning on taking the exausht off a few times a year I would automatically use the U C on it so I know it will seal the first time. About the only down side I can think of is just the appearence?

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Last edited by KKRace; 01-07-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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post #7 of 9 Old 01-07-2013, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds like a plan ... also, thanks to Voicey, I checked ebay and there is supplier in UK that provides gaskets that 1.5mm thick of compressible gasket material for about 12 pounds sterling including shipping. A bit more if one wants to also get the hardware (studs, nuts and washers). I have ordered those gaskets as they a bit thicker than the the OEM gaskets. Am going to take the muffler to a shop to run a weld bead around the pipe where it joins the flange. Am hopeful that these measures will cure the problem.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKRace View Post
I have a lot of experience using the Ultra Copper on the race cars and some muscle cars and really swear by the stuff. Also used it in conjunction with double gaskets or thicker gaskets etc. For small leaks the stuff is great. If you have a huge gap you might need to do more but I would give the Ultra Copper a try.

I've recomended it to a lot of friends headers and muscle cars and it usually takes care of the problem.

On the racecars I've only used it when I have had a problem getting the gaskets to seal alone but I think on any application where I wasn't planning on taking the exausht off a few times a year I would automatically use the U C on it so I know it will seal the first time. About the only down side I can think of is just the appearence?
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post #8 of 9 Old 01-13-2013, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quick Update ...

Just a quick update on my exhaust leak.

I was able to ameliorate the problem fairly easily. I obtained some high silver content solder (35% silver) which can be used to solder stainless steel. I removed the muffler and using a stainless steel brush, I brushed the bejus out of the joint where the pipe and flange are joined. Using the appropriate flux and a bottle of MAPP gas, I was able to heat that joint hot enough to flow the silver solder into the joint. I also puddled some molten solder around the joint ... resembles brazing. Problem cured. Cost me $40 for the silver solder plus the MAPP gas and about 60 minutes of my time. I am not the most skilled welder / brazer and although the overall appearance is not up to the standard of more skilled artisans, my problem has been resolved.

Just a tip for others ... high content silver solder seems to work nicely and one might keep this method in mind for minor leaks and such. The melting point of high content silver solder is about 1100 deg F or so ... which is well above the temp that a muffler is likely to get. Although not structurally as sound as welding, it seems to be a good solution for minor leaks.

Steve
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post #9 of 9 Old 01-14-2013, 06:49 AM
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A lot of times brazing or soldering can hold up better than welding. Welds have a habit of cracking sometimes. The nice thing about what you did is it does not require any heat treating or stress relief.

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