360 OEM Racing Exhaust & ECU flash. - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 01-06-2013, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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OEM Racing Exhaust & ECU flash.

I have to uninstall my beloved glorious TiMate muffler because it is breaking the legal noise restrictions and beyond that neighbours are complaining too much
Breaking the legal noise restrictions is not a big issue indeed but as it has no valves it is making too much sound in the underground parking lot during first start up when the engine is stone cold..
So I decided to go for a OEM Racing Exhaust Kit (may be we can call CS exhaust kit). And after a short search on Ebay, I found complete new OEM Racing Exhaust Kit from a Ferrari dealer in US for price which is really nice . The brand new kit has every thing in it (mufflers,tips,insulations,even the hoses to valves,installation guides,etc.) + 2 New Motronic ECUS. The seller told me that I should re programme my current ECUS. I can not use the ECUS in the kit because they are for 2002-2004 360 F1 Modenas for US and Canada market. (I am sure that I can sell them later through Ebay).
My question is about the re-programming ECUS. What is the job content here? Any one has exprienced this before? And if I leave current ECUS like this what will happen?
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post #2 of 16 Old 01-06-2013, 07:17 AM
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Can not you put on a diffuser controlled at low rev much like the newer cars?

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post #3 of 16 Old 01-06-2013, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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TiMate is titanium and there is no way to weld steel valves to titanium pipes (and also its structure is not suitable for it )
However I made more researches in the web and i realized that ECU reprogramming is should be done for US & Canada versions not for EU versions.
So it is possible to direct install and use OEM racing system with current ECU configuration. I will miss my titanium system
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post #4 of 16 Old 01-06-2013, 08:20 AM
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Hakan- Your current Motronic ECUs will work fine with the racing exhaust. The bypass valves will open on the same schedule they did before you installed the Timate exhaust. Should be a good market for the used Timate system, too.

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post #5 of 16 Old 01-06-2013, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Hakan- Your current Motronic ECUs will work fine with the racing exhaust. The bypass valves will open on the same schedule they did before you installed the Timate exhaust. Should be a good market for the used Timate system, too.
You are rite ther are lots of Timate fans around. But mine is in very good condition and I want to keep it on the shelf.
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post #6 of 16 Old 01-06-2013, 09:20 AM
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If you look at the Timate's construction you will indeed notice that the tail pipes are indeed compatible with the stock exhaust system, yes they align up!

The tailpipes are exactly the same length and bends as stock system so some people have therefore already been using the standard 360 Modena pipe ends (and indeed some others have used Capristo pipe ends and others) on a Timate backbox. No welding, a bolt on affair with minimal effort. Even for non mechanically minded its very easy to change, you don't even need to remove the backbox, its so small you can swap the tailpipes with the box still attached! Takes less than and hour. Give it a shot, it may be enough as you can re-use standard valves then...

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post #7 of 16 Old 01-06-2013, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
 
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If you look at the Timate's construction you will indeed notice that the tail pipes are indeed compatible with the stock exhaust system, yes they align up!

The tailpipes are exactly the same length and bends as stock system so some people have therefore already been using the standard 360 Modena pipe ends (and indeed some others have used Capristo pipe ends and others) on a Timate backbox. No welding, a bolt on affair with minimal effort. Even for non mechanically minded its very easy to change, you don't even need to remove the backbox, its so small you can swap the tailpipes with the box still attached! Takes less than and hour. Give it a shot, it may be enough as you can re-use standard valves then...
Hi Trev. I thought of this but total timate system is weighing 7 kgs as whole. where one side oem tail pipe weighs 5-6 kgs. so it is quite obvious that muffler cannot carry oem tips in long term (if you dont support it with an additional brackets). And to be honest the OEM racing system offered as a real bargain if I am not satisfied I am quıte sure that I can re sell it with a minor loss and will return to my beloved Timate.
Now there will be only 2 US 2002-2004 F1Canada version ECUs nonfunctional staying on the shelf.

Trev by the way i am sending you PM about 430 throttle body installing and cancelling EGR valve.
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post #8 of 16 Old 01-07-2013, 03:23 AM
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Yes Timate muffler can fit to OEM tailpipes. I have seen the Sport exhaust on ebay, very good priced but without proper ECU tuning is useless
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post #9 of 16 Old 01-07-2013, 10:49 AM
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Mike- Useless is way too strong a term. With stock Motronic DMEs, you may not get all the possible benefits out of the system, but the car will run fine without the tuned ECUs and still benefit from the free flowing exhaust. Free flowing aftermarket exhausts are fitted all the time without benefit of tuned DMEs.

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post #10 of 16 Old 01-08-2013, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Mike- Useless is way too strong a term. With stock Motronic DMEs, you may not get all the possible benefits out of the system, but the car will run fine without the tuned ECUs and still benefit from the free flowing exhaust. Free flowing aftermarket exhausts are fitted all the time without benefit of tuned DMEs.
Free flow exhausts doesnt always have good results. I know a 355 owner that changed 5 exhausts to find the one he likes
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post #11 of 16 Old 01-08-2013, 09:55 AM
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Mike- Finding one that makes a sound someone likes does not mean others someone tried did not perform well. You are making way too broad statements based on limited evidence.

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post #12 of 16 Old 01-09-2013, 12:39 AM
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Well then how do you explain this report:

"This is Joe at Fabspeed motorsport. I own a 6 speed 360 spider and tried 4 different exhaust systems on my car in order to experience all the sound varieties and for empiracle and testing data. I do a lot of research design and development on exhaust systems and intake systems.

A couple of things to consider.
Yes the Ferrari oem challenge straddle muffler and the oem 430 muffler have the exact external size and shape. Therefore the mufflers are interchangeable. However Ferrari has different part numbers for these mufflers and Xray inspection shows the internal designs are quite different and the sound was different ......the 430 muffler is more restrictive internally and attenuates controls the sound more versus the straddle coupes muffler.

I actually installed both of these mufflers on my 360 as I wanted to recreate for sale a challenge straddle muffler for 360 cars based on what I believed Might be the best possible choice of sportscar sound and power. I actually bought at great expense a complete challenge straddle rear muffler with straddle tips and I had a factory f430 muffler with tips laying around too.

I waterjet cut tig welded the correct brackets in order to correctly mount the oem straddle system on my car. I installed everything and hooked up the vacuum valves. So I had everything installed and made solid works files of all the brackets and was ready to duplicate the entire oem ferrari challenge straddle system for regular 360 cars.

I was greatly disappointed with the retrofitted 360 challenge straddle muffler on my USA
360 spider. The problem was That the car was down on power and the sound was not as aggressive as I assumed it would be. In analysis I attributed this to 2 factors. One of these factors I could not remedy so I ditched the project.

On the straddle the oem factory headers do not have pre cats so the sound level is more sporty f1 like right from the factory. I can address that with race quality headers.

The real issue was that the 360s vacuum operated exhaust valves did not open up very often despite aggressive driving as my cars ECU was tuned for the cars original boat anchor coffin style muffler and the cars ECU opened the exhaust actuated bypass valves just as Ferrari programmed them to open for the big boxy muffler. So there I am driving and road testing with a complete expensive Challenge Stradale factory OEM rear muffler system with factory tips and the car sounds weak and is Down on power. Exhaust flapper valves only open at certain rpm points. I am frustrated and realize the difference must be locked in the Challenge straddle OEM ecu brain programming.

Anyway I swap out topside the challenge muffler to the 430 muffler . Car is even more muted and my exhaust valves open at the same rpm points ranges dictated by my ecu.

Pm me for more info I do have extra brackets mounting hardware laying around from this endeavor.


You will have to fabricate exhaust brackets in order to install the 430 muffler "

Check the link if you dont believe me

430 exhaust in a 360 Need Help - FerrariChat.com
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post #13 of 16 Old 01-09-2013, 06:07 AM
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Mike, I don't see that report supports your "useless" and "good results" comments.

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post #14 of 16 Old 01-09-2013, 10:53 AM
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Mike- Read what you posted. This owner fitted a Challenge Stradale exhaust, not a 360 racing exhaust, so it is pretty easy to explain. His big grump is about the bypass valves, which only open at wide open throttle on 360s and that would be true no matter which exhaust was fitted. So kind of a lame whine.

Note also this is written by someone from Fabspeed, who has a vested interest in selling Fabspeed components made in Taiwan.

Unless you have personal experience, "useless" is way too strong a term to use unless you happen to be an expert on the subject.

Did you ever download the WSM? Pretty good explanation of the bypass valve operation at C.3.05.

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Last edited by tazandjan; 01-09-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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post #15 of 16 Old 01-09-2013, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Mike- Yes fabspeed guy is right the 430, 360 cs and OEM 360 racing exhausts are very similar to each other but when you look at it either by x-ray or by cutting it inside of 430 and 360 mufflers air circulations are different (I remember that I ve already told this before in this forum).
Secondly in European versions you don't need to re-program your ECU. It works properly and optimised with std. ECU's ( you can check it from the ferrari aftermarket accesories web site). But of course to tune your ECU's to CS version will maximize your gain.(I checked from dealer and also Taz confirmed this)
But in U.S. versions you have to re program your ECU's because of different ignition algortihmics. And when you check according to part/ item number you will see that EU type kits contain no ECUs where US type kits contain 2 new ECUs.
And about the valve WSM explained very detailed about valve timings for exhausts. And it is not a real issue to change its opening RPM or even modifying it with a remote control (even the OEM tail pipe valves).
As a conclusion in my opinion there is no correct or useless,bad exhaust in this universe. It is a matter of taste. I dont like OEM because it is too quiet, I used TUBI for 1 year with decat test pipes but i think it is too boomy like a corvette or a camaro,I loved Timate (especially with 100 cell cats) but everybody complained about its sound level (except me) and now I am upgrading it to OEM racing Style. But please remeber these are not facts these are only my thoughts that I can share.
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post #16 of 16 Old 01-09-2013, 09:51 PM
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The 360 CS exhaust which was optional on Modena, is it different that the racing one?
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