360 2001 360 F1 code P1125 - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-15-2012, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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2001 360 F1 code P1125

Need help, please....
My 360 give me a code of P1125, indicate bank2 rich condition.
visual inspected MAF sensor, minor debris coated the hotwire.
Swaped MAF sensor from bank1 to bank2, after two trip drive cycle, still throw me the same DTC P1125. This tells me that the MAF sensor is not the cause to trigger this code in this case.
Two questions: 1=bank2 is on the driver side, correct?
2=is there a known common cause of this code in an area that I should look at first prior digging my self too far out of the circle?
Eversince I bought the car, it has always been idling about 1100-1200rpm. I though it's too high. Could this maybe a hint of what may cause that could lead to trigger code P1125...
Any lead would be greatly appreciate.
Thanks a million
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post #2 of 22 Old 11-17-2012, 05:28 AM
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In your case, the ECU cannot lean the mixture enough, vs the base maps, to have the expected exhaut gases composition. You are in lack of oxygen in the exhaust.
It could be because of a too rich mixture or because of a failing lambda sensor.

I would start by swapping the pre-cat lambda sensors, as you did for the MAF, to see if the code follows the sensor.
If it is not the case, I would focus on the fuel system (too high fuel pressure, leaking injectors, ...)

Bank 2 is the driver side, you are correct.

On a side note, there is no chance that you can see the hot wire in the MAF because there is none in the 360 MAF. The flow sensor is of film type and is hidden. At best, what you can see is the air temperature sensor.
Also, on the 360s, because of the modular intake system, each MAF is not affected to one particular bank. Depending on the position of the compensation and modular valves, the air is flowing from one MAF, or the other, or both (eg: at idle air in bank 2 is flowing through MAF1,while at full throttle air in bank 2 is mainly flowing through MAF2). So there are chances that a wrong MAF would affect both banks. Anyway, you have proved by swapping them that it is not a MAF issue.
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post #3 of 22 Old 11-18-2012, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much Eric.
I will take your advice to swap the pre-cat sensors tomorrow morning and do another two trip cycle to see where we at.
I've also tried to spray carb cleaner around the intake to see if there's any intake leak, but was not sucessful at this point. I couldn't tell the idle change.
In anycase, that is a very interesting point of the intake flow as a modular design as you mention. I Didn't know that.
I will keep you guys follow update on this matter as soon as I get some result.
Thank you again Eric.
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post #4 of 22 Old 11-24-2012, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Finally.
I had to wrestle with driver side lamba sensor. It got seize in the manifold and would not come out or go back in. I finally manage to get the sensor out and the threads of the sensor is ruin.
I'm waiting on the new sensor. Meanwhile I repaired the threads of the sensor port on the manifold.
Looks like I don't have to do a sensors swap afterall. I will put the old sensor back on passenger bank and the new sensor on the driver bank. Due a two trip cycle and give you all a follow up.
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post #5 of 22 Old 12-10-2012, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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follow up on my car issue, if anyone interest.
I finally got the new lamba sensor in and made a two trip drive cycle. Just re-ran a system check and p1125 return.
I will hook up a fuel gauge to see if the pressure deplete, may give a clude of leaky injector.
Anyone have idea how to determine leaky injector and which one? we know it's on driver side bank.
Any idea please add. Really want to get this issue resolve.
thank you everyone.

Mike
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post #6 of 22 Old 12-11-2012, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Does anyone care or have any interest in the topic???
No opinion or anything it seems.
I don't want to go on with this and feel like I am talking to myself and bordem you guys out.
Anything at all, anyone????
Tell me something, anything, even not relate. Give me some motivation guys...come on now.
LoL. LOL. LoL
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post #7 of 22 Old 12-11-2012, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, so I got home from work and hook up a fuel pressure gauge. This is what i notice so far. I last drove the car yesterday park it round 2:00pm, today at 6:00pm when I remove the shrader valve to hook in the fuel pressure gauge, I notice there was no fuel pressure.
question: Within 24hrs or so, fuel pressure got depleted, is this normal for this kind of car?
question: when I key on not cranking, no pressure register on gauge?
question: when running pressure at 50psi?
I will remove the spark plugs on driver side bank to examine the differences each one in comparison.
should I pull out the injectors and swap from one bank to another bank?
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post #8 of 22 Old 12-11-2012, 11:05 PM
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Sure Mike, I'm following your progress, thanks for your updates

Here's some info regarding testing the fuel pressure:

At idle you should read 3.45 bar
Stop the engine. You should read a steady pressure of 2.7 bar (+/- 0.3 bar) during at least 1 hour.

Check both fuel rails and compare the values. If it comes out that the pressure is too low, you'll have to change the according fuel pump (entirely) as the integrated pressure regulator isn't available as a separated part. The pressure regulator is preset at 3.6 bar.

Let us know how it goes
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post #9 of 22 Old 12-16-2012, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Stefvan and thank you.
fuel pressure test did not coclude much. Although, I did also took your advise to due comparison on both bank. They are relatively even psi.
Question for you: does this car have two fuel pump control each bank individually?
I remove bank2 spark plugs and the 4th one (closest to transmission) appear a slight different compare to other three. but still not conclusive.
For "shits-n-giggle", I swap injectors bank1 to bank2. just to isolate the variable. I will need to make the drive cycle and recheck DTC.
Meanwhile, I have to due more home work.
Another question for everyone out there: Does this car often have crack exhaust manifold especially on driver side...many other sports car with mid-engine rear wheel drive often due.
I am thinking if i have a crack exhaust manifold prior to lamba sensor, this potentially with signal lean and ECU keep dumping fuel causing rich condition....
Thoughts anyone???
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post #10 of 22 Old 12-17-2012, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, looks like i got my question answere in regards to how many fuel pump are on this 360.
Saw "360 fuel pump" thread and a pic post from TAZ.
thank you.
Where is Brian when I need him???
Brian help me out with this code... please.
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post #11 of 22 Old 12-19-2012, 06:51 AM
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Could be indicative of inlet manifold gasket leak, which is very common. Are you able to check the adaptive values long and short term, and post them?
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post #12 of 22 Old 12-19-2012, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you Ed.
I will try to get those values. I don't have a sd3 but i am using a generic system from my company (Toyota).
I can look at live data list. I suppose, just by listening to the rpm raise/drop while spray carb cleaner would not do it ha?
My eng rpm is running between 1000-1100rpm close loop(warm up condition). Would this by any chance indicate vacuum leak on this specific application?
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post #13 of 22 Old 12-19-2012, 01:04 PM
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The motronic system on the 360 is pretty intuitive. A high short term adaptive value would point towards an intake gasket issue. There are two ways of checking for this;
1. Visually. Take an inspection light and check at the base of each individual intake strake at its base; visual signs of blackening or bits of green gasket paper protruding are sure signs.....

2. Dead cold engine, start up and liberal application of brake cleaner, sprayed at intake base. Any idle change will point toward intake leak. If you can supplement this test with a gas analyser test, all the better....
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post #14 of 22 Old 12-19-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraricyprus View Post
The motronic system on the 360 is pretty intuitive. A high short term adaptive value would point towards an intake gasket issue. There are two ways of checking for this;
1. Visually. Take an inspection light and check at the base of each individual intake strake at its base; visual signs of blackening or bits of green gasket paper protruding are sure signs.....

2. Dead cold engine, start up and liberal application of brake cleaner, sprayed at intake base. Any idle change will point toward intake leak. If you can supplement this test with a gas analyser test, all the better....
Eddie, isn't P1125 the opposite?
My understanding was that this DTC should appear because of a too low LTFT, meaning that the ECU has reached its limit while trying to lean the mixture.
As you wrote, an intake gasket issue would lead to a too high LTFT with an ECU trying to enrich the mixture.
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-31-2012, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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ok, today is my day off and i am devoted to work on the 360 today. not much luck, i can tell you that....
So, i started where i left off last:
I removed spark plugs and coils on both banks. Visually the plugs looks normal and so are the coils. no sign of burned or spark arch from plugs and coils.
I swap coils from bank 1 to bank 2.
Today I also hook up my techstream to view the data list. For some strange reason, I am not able to view bank 2. I was able to see everything else including bank 1, but not bank two. On my techstream for bank 2, it just give me a "dash" on bank 1 I was able to view STFT AND LTFT, including status of open loop or close loop.
Also, strangely at one time it came up with DTC P1123. The definition of this code is scripted the same as P1125 but does not indicate bank1 or bank2.
Question: Does P1123 identify as bank 1????
Today, i was not able to pull up Freeze frame data either.
Can someone tell me with P1123 or P1125, what are the LTFT value at? give me an actual number please????
I am going to drive the car today, and another one next week to make a two trip and see if DTC return and if will be different or still P1125.
thank you guys.
Happy holidays to everyone.

Mike
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post #16 of 22 Old 12-31-2012, 12:36 PM
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Mike- There are two Motronic ECUs and it sounds like you are only reading one of them.

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post #17 of 22 Old 01-01-2013, 02:03 AM
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P1123 is relative to bank 1.

Both ECUs are answering to the same commands of your OBD reader but with different IDs (11 for bank 1 and 14 for bank 2). Your reader must be able to select those IDs if you want to see bank 2. Not all of them are able to read different IDs. Also, I can confirm that bank2 does not always answer , for some reasons. Try to connect again ... and again ... and it may work.

What STFT and LTFT were you able to read on bank 1? Usually such DTC (P1123 & P1125)are set when STFT and LTFT reach -15% to -20% depending on manufacturers. Notice, again, the negative figures are my interpretation of those DTC : sytem too rich trying to lean the mixture.


Happy new year to everyone!!
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-01-2013, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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As I can only see bank1 STFT at -3 and LTFT at -8 the last time i read it.
agian Bank 2 did not answere.
Terry said there are two ecu. I did recognize that when I hook up my tech stream. And yes, it makes sense now, since Eric mentioned 11 for bank1 and 14 for bank2. I did chose 11. That's why bank 2 did not answere.
This is very intrigging to me, very new, and different from what i know about automotive.
So, there are two ECU and two fuel pump control each bank independently, is that right?
What is the reason and benefit of having such designed system?
Thank you so much everyone, piece by piece it starts to make sense and giving me more education towards this diagnostic. I will hook up my techstream and browse on it more, at the same time i will complete the drive cycle. If the codes changes other then P1125, I can suspect is the coils, since I swap bank1 to bank2.
I will give you all a follow up as soon as have something valid. Meanwhile, more input please...I appreciate all your help. Thank you again.

Mike
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post #19 of 22 Old 04-20-2013, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, finally getting a chance to get back at this, after running around to find a decent equipment to work with this car. Now using the SnapOn Modis with the latest software.
Here are the details finding so far: from ECU 14(bank2) I still getting P1125 every two trip cycle, very consistantly comming back. With freeze frame: STFT is -8.6 and LTFT is +.0.8.
Now I am able to access ECU 11 as well (bank1). DTC store as follow: P0108, P0101, P0102, P0104, and P0110. It appears these codes I'm unable to clear.
Any thoughts??? please help.
What I have been doing all this time are reading up from different forums and looking for a decent equipe to work with. In addition, I am talking to "autoenginuity". Their website shows some pretty cool software with Ferrari and Masserati specific.
Is is a good bet for me to throw in both banks MAF sensor or where to look further for more accurate diagnosis?
thank you again, any help is appreciated.

Mike
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post #20 of 22 Old 04-23-2013, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Adding some finding as of this morning.
Yesterday I took it out for a smog inspection. Parked it lastnight around 8:00PM. This morning around 7:AM, I attempted to push on the schader valve at the fuel rail. There were no fuel comming out of either rail.....
Is this normal for this type of car?
Is the fuel deplete or leak from injector into the combustion chamber that would posibly causing my rich condition?
For this type of car, leaking injector or internal leaking fuel pump common?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciate. thanks

Mike
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