360 51% clutch left good or bad? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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51% clutch left good or bad?

Asked the same question in Pre-Purchase Help forum but this may be a better place to ask.

I am in the final stage of purchasing this 360 modena. Did PPI a couple of days ago and found clutch has 51% remaining. I talked to the shop and the guy said it still has plenty of life left because original thickness is 8mm and 0% is 7 mm. So 50% meaning it only wore out 1/4 mm on each side. However I read somewhere people were saying it will become hard to engage when there is only 20-30 % remaining. The car only has 6k miles. I believe the car was mostly driven on local slow speed streets that is why clutch wore out so fast. Any suggestion on this?
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post #2 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 12:14 PM
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Hi Hung, 50% worn clutch with only 6K miles is really a lot. Make sure the car hasn't been abused and ask for a detailed SD2 printout. You're right, expect only 20% more clutch wear before starting having clutch engagement issues. That's what most 360 owners experience on their cars.
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post #3 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 01:32 PM
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Stef- Affirmative, 70% wear seems to be the number where troubles start on the 360 systems.

Taz
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post #4 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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PPI was done by Alex Traverso in AZ. He seems to be a very knowledgable guy with 360. I talked to him a few times on the phone and he vouched for this car. He inspected synchro and everything is in place as factory spec so he said the car was never abused before. The owner prior to current owner is an old Dr. so I am guessing he just drove around town in So. CA and that is why it has a lot of wear. Alex told me if I drove properly it should still last a good 5-6 years. I am planning to put 2-3 k miles per year. Should I worry about it?
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post #5 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 02:04 PM
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Ask Alex how much a new clutch will be if he does it for you so you have a feel. They are not that expensive and if you get a few years use out of it, you will be fine. Clutch wear is a function of two things, first, in what kind of driving it is used for and second, how the driver uses the system, so impossible to tell how long that last 20% or so will last one driver. If you made five trips on the interstate all the way across the US, clutch wear would be minimal. If you drive her up and down San Francisco streets, a clutch will not last long. If you treat it like a manual transmission with no clutch, which is what it is, the clutch will last quite a while. If you treat it like an automatic transmission and let it do all kinds of automatic downshifts, the clutch will wear quicker.

What Alex is telling you is true, but somewhat misleading. The loaded (closed) thickness of a new clutch plate is 8.3 mm, but the wear limit is only 0.8 mm, so ~90% of the clutch disc thickness is unusable except as a heat sink.

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post #6 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 02:23 PM
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Hung, if you average your mileage estimate you're asking to get 14,000 miles out of 20%+/- clutch life. That seems like a lot if you're not driving a lot of open highway mileage. If the car is at a dealership on consignment you may have some leverage if the listing $ doesn't factor this into the price.

I've seen some invoices where a new clutch ran up to $7k. If the PPI Alex performed is all good and all records are available, clutch wear is what is - a F1 360 and if an earlier generation even more so. Share photos when you get one!
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post #7 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 02:48 PM
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Hey Hung, glad you found a low miles close enough. Hope you can fly and pick her up, no?
Not sure if the one you are looking at is F1 or 6 speed manual but when I did my PPI my tech told me that the manual clutch (he has a way to measure) had about 50% left. His observation was if driven properly I can get lots of miles out of this clutch. The clutch was replaced around 10k miles and now car has about 28,500 miles

Send us some pics when you get her!
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post #8 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Taz, I just called Alex again, he told me to drive to the point that clutch needs to be replaced so don't waste money now. I will take his advice to enjoy the car first. It cannot be that bad after all. Just as a new future Ferrari owner, I am a bit nervous about it.

01BluNart, I think I will take some forum member's suggestion not to drive the car if distance is less than 30 miles to save clutch. I also saw a page that teaches you how to drive F1 transmission. I guess I need to find that out and study it again.

Fran, this car is F1. I am too used to my M3's DCT and don't want to go back to stick any more. Plus I promised to let my wife drive this car so it has to be F1 transmission. Still looking for a truck to pick up the car from Phoenix some time next week. Hopefully I can find one in the middle of next week and car can be delivered on weekend.
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post #9 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 03:25 PM
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Hung, good for you! send some pics and not sure where you are in the Bay Area but hope to see you around
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post #10 of 21 Old 09-07-2012, 10:37 PM
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driving only 2 or 3,000 miles a year, that clutch should last many years when properly driven. I am up to 4,000 miles in 5 months of ownership and my clutch is at 35% worn, started at 30% worn when I bought the car.
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post #11 of 21 Old 09-08-2012, 09:12 AM
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Hung- I was not suggesting you change the clutch, just be aware of how much a new one will cost. Also talk to Alex about the symptoms you can expect to see as the clutch nears the end of its life. Most easily recognized is the system selecting neutral uncommanded and I am sure Alex can tell you the others.

In three pedal cars, it is easy to recognize when the clutch nears the end of life as the pedal gets very heavy as the linkage goes non-optimal near the end of disc life. On the F1 cars, 900 psi of hydraulic pressure from the F1 system masks those symptoms, so you need to be aware of what the F1 system is telling you. Unlike on the F1 V12s, there is no visual inspection you can make to determine clutch wear, so the SD2 clutch wear output is all you have. Except it gets pretty obvious from the other symptoms. Ignoring those symptoms can have you stuck in traffic in neutral, and sometimes worse, with no power.

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post #12 of 21 Old 09-08-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EliseRR View Post
I believe the car was mostly driven on local slow speed streets that is why clutch wore out so fast. Any suggestion on this?
Go for it.

Why the clutch is at 50% is anyones guess.

Maybe the original owner had a steep driveway or drove around in reverse.

At the end of the day the mechanic you trust is what matters.

Good Luck and enjoy!
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post #13 of 21 Old 09-08-2012, 11:42 PM
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Has anybody installed a kevlar disk?
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post #14 of 21 Old 09-09-2012, 09:27 AM
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Mike- Yes, several owners. They work well with three pedal cars, but the F1 system has trouble with them from everything I have read. Difference in friction coefficients apparently does not match well with the F1 ECU/TCU algorithms.

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post #15 of 21 Old 09-09-2012, 02:48 PM
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Also be aware that it the clutch reading is an 'estimate', its not exact science!

Sometimes a clutch is pulled out early (at the instance of the owner obsessed with the wear 'estimation' figures) only to find its only a fraction worn!

Strive for perfection in everything we do. Take the best that exists and make it better.
When it does not exist, design it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough.
Henry Royce
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post #16 of 21 Old 09-12-2012, 11:01 AM
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Hung, I would advice you to bargain with the dealer and say that they have a deal provided that you pay for the parts of the clutch ( find out first how much they charge for them) and they put in the labour for free!
I reckon it is a fair deal this way!
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post #17 of 21 Old 09-26-2012, 01:37 AM
 
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^ This is a wonderful idea. If the dealer pays for labor then buy the parts yourself.
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post #18 of 21 Old 09-29-2012, 06:45 AM
 
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When a clutch is replaced, do you have to manually reset the TCU to 100% reading, or does it do this automatically? Thanks..
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post #19 of 21 Old 09-30-2012, 06:30 AM
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The dealer should reset it for you.
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post #20 of 21 Old 03-06-2013, 04:38 AM
 
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Dear All
I just have my spider 360 2001 F1 all checked up by the dealers
As comments from the forum which I learnt so much naybe I can share a few things
check any oil leakage and have the SD3 reset, my dealer told me its was 40 % done wih my clutch
but after fixing the leakage all in a sudden the it was 70 %
I asked themt o re-do again, as I was driving very smoothly, I can sure if the car sits in traffic the problems comes back very soon like from gear 1 to 2 make cranky noice.
I would say I drive it till the clutch is dead then change it after all, we should concentrate on the pleasure side instead of the worry side.
Have fun with the toy Guys
And the last thing the forum told me when changing the clutch must change the flywheel too.
And anyone can help me to find some basic performance parts for the car but I am driving in Hong Kong
heavy traffic but i dont care as it was stunning on the street
Cheers
Ron
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