Scud/16M modification thread! - Page 5 - Ferrari Life
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post #81 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 09:08 AM
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Doug,

Watch this video:

Capristo Scuderia complet Exhaust 40 HP 60Nm 24Kg - YouTube They kind of mislead you on the gains of their complete system. They say at the start, gains of 40 hp, but this is only at a certain lower mid-range RPM. Actually gains are only around 15-19 bhp. Pretty spendy, almost $1000 / bhp.

And still, you don't get any kind of high pitch tone whatsoever with the Capristo Muffler on a Scud / 16M.
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post #82 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 09:22 AM
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One of my favorite Scuderia exhausts is the Power-Craft:

???????,Z34,Z33,R35GTR,V35,BMW,?????,???????,????? ?????????????????????????????????????????Power Craft scroll down, you will see / hear their Scuderia exhaust. Still, to get the higher pitch, they also remove the cats, and go straight pipes, but they still incorporate valves.

Would be curious to hear the full Capristo setup with their flex straight pipes, to see if that ups the pitch of their tone.
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post #83 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 09:37 AM
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One last point:

I met two owner's up in Seattle this weekend. One has 20k miles on his Scuderia Coupe, and another has 10k miles on his. They both have the stock exhaust, with the FOS valve switch, and neither has had any problems. So if you think you are gaining longevity, by switching to the Capristo setup, I don't believe this is true. For me, it was simply the tone of the RSC muffler that led me to change mine.
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post #84 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 10:23 AM
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Mark- First I have heard anything about a problem with Kreissieg exhausts. Where did you hear that?

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post #85 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 10:47 AM
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Mark- First I have heard anything about a problem with Kreissieg exhausts. Where did you hear that?
F430GT on Fchat, Rad, he has tried basically every exhaust on his Scuderia. He said it can't handle the track.
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post #86 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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A big reason you don't have any drone, is that you still have valves. I would like to hear the Capristo setup, with the valves open at a constant 2800-3000 rpm.
On the contrary, I open my valves as soon as engine and cats are up to temperature and then leave them open all the time, absolutely no drone at any revs. Capristo is designed not to drone unlike some others!

'SCUD' Verb. To move fast as if driven by the wind.

Last edited by Russell996; 05-30-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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post #87 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjayw View Post
Doug,

Watch this video:

Capristo Scuderia complet Exhaust 40 HP 60Nm 24Kg - YouTube They kind of mislead you on the gains of their complete system. They say at the start, gains of 40 hp, but this is only at a certain lower mid-range RPM. Actually gains are only around 15-19 bhp. Pretty spendy, almost $1000 / bhp.
I think the 40hp and torque gain are actually in the most useful rev range to give the biggest benefit. While peak HP is a nice figure to quote, in everyday driving it's the midrange where the biggest benefits can be experienced from the seat of your pants.

'SCUD' Verb. To move fast as if driven by the wind.
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post #88 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 12:57 PM
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Here's a Dyno which was made on a Scuderia in 2010. I'm pretty much sure that these figures has been improved since Capristo considerably improved his exhaust system and especially the cats.

As Russ mentionned, the best and most usefull improvement is in the midrange where torque values increased to 502Nm available from 4263rpm to 5250rpm while stock it is max 467Nm at only 5335rpm. This is the real power you will feel pushing your car much harder. On my F430, I'm getting now the max torque value of 504Nm available from 3822rpm up to 5300rpm. My car is a different car since and is so much more enjoyable with this extra torque and hp in this midrange.

These are real figures which say everything Compare this with other exhaust brands dynos and you can make up your mind what you really going to get for your money
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post #89 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 01:01 PM
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BTW, Andrea is in Italy now after I've met him in Germany but will soon back in FL. Don't hesitate to call him, he's a real nice guy and knows very well his business.
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post #90 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 07:43 PM
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I know switching the exhaust with everything involved is not a light hearted decision.

Experimenting on the 16M is not up for discussion - the Capristo is the only option.

Mark I would love a high F1 pitch but in order to achieve it I risk way too much.

Stefvan I will call Capristo - but you need to share digits.

Maybe he has some new ideas - regardless I trust Capristo.
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post #91 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by StefVan View Post
Here's a Dyno which was made on a Scuderia in 2010. I'm pretty much sure that these figures has been improved since Capristo considerably improved his exhaust system and especially the cats.

As Russ mentionned, the best and most usefull improvement is in the midrange where torque values increased to 502Nm available from 4263rpm to 5250rpm while stock it is max 467Nm at only 5335rpm. This is the real power you will feel pushing your car much harder. On my F430, I'm getting now the max torque value of 504Nm available from 3822rpm up to 5300rpm. My car is a different car since and is so much more enjoyable with this extra torque and hp in this midrange.

These are real figures which say everything Compare this with other exhaust brands dynos and you can
make up your mind what you really going to get for your money
Convert the graph from nm to ft. Lbs. http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/converter.htm

495 nm equals 365.04 ft. lbs. An increase of only 18 over the factory 347. So for 15g's, you get 15-18 hp increase, and 18 ft. lbs. Torque increase?? No way that is worth it. Especially if you can't improve the sound.
My car scares the living shit out of people, I had a line of people waiting for me to fire it up when I left Chateau St. Michelle on Sunday. After my SV is done, I am going to add the Evoms tune, and the Capristo flex pipes. Hopefully I can find a good shop to weld in the stock valves.

Doug, you need to re-think what your goals are. I seriously doubt you will be able to feel a 5% gain.

Fabspeeds setup gains 57 hp at the wheels, and 45 torque with headers, straight pipes, X-pipe exhaust, and Evoms tune. http://www.fabspeed.com/dyno67.html

Vs. Stock: http://www.fabspeed.com/dyno86.html

No wonder Capristo uses nm. Makes it look like a bigger gain than it actually is.

I have talked with the Texas customer with that setup, and his car is tuned for and runs straight race gas. He has had not one issue.

Last edited by markjayw; 05-30-2012 at 10:31 PM.
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post #92 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 10:32 PM
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I know switching the exhaust with everything involved is not a light hearted decision.

Experimenting on the 16M is not up for discussion - the Capristo is the only option.

Mark I would love a high F1 pitch but in order to achieve it I risk way too much.

Stefvan I will call Capristo - but you need to share digits.

Maybe he has some new ideas - regardless I trust Capristo.
Doug, you can see all prices on CAPRISTO® Exhaust | The World Leader in Performance Exhaust Technologies and Home » Capristo ExhaustSystems. Don't hesitate to call Andrea and/or Antonio.

For the F1 pitch, your engine will have to run at 18.000 rpm. A F1 engine running at 8000rpm doesn't have a high pitch at all (I checked this again in Monaco last WE). Having a F1 sound at 8000rpm only is usually not a very good sign. The so beloved reference sound of the 355 is due to one of the worst exhaust systems Ferrari made. This engine is screaming of the suffering... sorry for breaking this myth but it's the truth.
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post #93 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 10:37 PM
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On the contrary, I open my valves as soon as engine and cats are up to temperature and then leave them open all the time, absolutely no drone at any revs. Capristo is designed not to drone unlike some others!
Let's hear a video? You have been mentioning you were going to do one for a long time? Time is up, fire up that camera.
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post #94 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 10:38 PM
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Here is the Texas owner's car:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

As for who to trust, I trust a guy that has thrashed the heck out of his car on the track vs. normal street drivers anyday.
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post #95 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 10:46 PM
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Mark, I hope you're not serious by suggesting a "made in Taiwan Fabspeed" exhaust solution on a Ferrari 16M...whatever the figures they claim...I wouldn't even consider it on my BMW

Last edited by StefVan; 05-31-2012 at 12:04 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #96 of 1518 Old 05-30-2012, 11:49 PM
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Mark, I have you're not serious by suggesting a "made in Taiwan Fabspeed" exhaust solution on a Ferrari 16M...whatever the figures they claim...I wouldn't even consider it on my BMW
Innotech is made in Taiwan. And i would sure as heck put their system on any of my cars. Trev recommends Timate, as do many for a 360, made there too.

My Dad's C55 was "Made in Germany", and the tilt wheel stopped working after 14k miles, cheap plastic washer broke, without being recalled.

I will put a "Made in Germany" Novitec Extreme exhaust on my 458 when it shows up, why because it sounds
the best bar none.

Let's see a stock Scuderia do a 60-130, and then a full Capristo do the same, and let's see how much time is shaved with that extra 15 lb. ft. of torque.

The only reason I went with Capristo headers was based on Rad's recommendation. Will go with Capristo straight pipes based on same recommendation, and the flex design to prevent stress on the headers.
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post #97 of 1518 Old 05-31-2012, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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Convert the graph from nm to ft. Lbs. Unit Converter

495 nm equals 365.04 ft. lbs. An increase of only 18 over the factory 347. So for 15g's, you get 15-18 hp increase, and 18 ft. lbs. Torque increase?? No way that is worth it. Especially if you can't improve the sound.
My car scares the living shit out of people, I had a line of people waiting for me to fire it up when I left Chateau St. Michelle on Sunday. After my SV is done, I am going to add the Evoms tune, and the Capristo flex pipes. Hopefully I can find a good shop to weld in the stock valves.

Doug, you need to re-think what your goals are. I seriously doubt you will be able to feel a 5% gain.

Fabspeeds setup gains 57 hp at the wheels, and 45 torque with headers, straight pipes, X-pipe exhaust, and Evoms tune. DYNO GRAPH Stock vs. Supersport

Vs. Stock: Ferrari Scuderia Performance Package with ECU Dyno

No wonder Capristo uses nm. Makes it look like a bigger gain than it actually is.

I have talked with the Texas customer with that setup, and his car is tuned for and runs straight race gas. He has had not one issue.
I'm no expert on these graphs, the actual figures aren't my reason for changing, as I have mentioned I originally fitted a Tubi inconel which I thought was one of the best mufflers available (certainly most expensive) but there was no way I could use it on a daily basis due to the drone and extreme volume and on seeing the mounting system it was far inferior to the Capristo.

Looking at the graphs Stef has posted and taking them at face value, the increase in torque is far higher than you have indicted, at 4600 rpm, the Capristo Complete system gives 495 NM compared to 436 NM stock. This is an increase of 59 NM or using the conversion chart 44 lb/ft. Likewise at the same point in the rev range the HP increase is 41 with the Capristo giving 328 compared to 287. This equates to 13-14% gains in torque and HP in the normal rev range of the engine for daily driving. Capristo use NM because they are German, for no other reason!

For sure you can go more extreme in the solutions and if you are doing a bang per buck equation then again maybe there are other solutions, it all depends on the purchase criteria.

'SCUD' Verb. To move fast as if driven by the wind.
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post #98 of 1518 Old 05-31-2012, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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Mark, I hope you're not serious by suggesting a "made in Taiwan Fabspeed" exhaust solution on a Ferrari 16M...whatever the figures they claim...I wouldn't even consider it on my BMW
LOL. Here we go again!

'SCUD' Verb. To move fast as if driven by the wind.
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post #99 of 1518 Old 05-31-2012, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Let's hear a video? You have been mentioning you were going to do one for a long time? Time is up, fire up that camera.
I know, I will get it done, time is the limiting factor.

'SCUD' Verb. To move fast as if driven by the wind.
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post #100 of 1518 Old 05-31-2012, 06:30 AM
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I know, I will get it done, time is the limiting factor.
Ok, 10 less Ferrari forum posts in a day equals video!
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