360 Confused on service interval language - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Confused on service interval language

Hi Guys, I've found (yet) another car that I like but I'm having trouble understanding the service intervals on it. The car has 22,7XX on the odometer and it had a "major service" done at 15,363 called the "15k Major Service". The clutch snapshot shows 79% good but has not had a service other than fluids since its last 15k mentioned above.

The dealer that has it is a lamborghini dealer so they called the Ferrari service shop for me and they said I should "go ahead and do another major service" that will do belts, plugs and "check everything out". It would cost $5500. They said they could do the belts for around $2000 but I should really consider going forward with another major service..

But in researching here and the owners manual, it shows that it doesn't need another major service until 30,000 miles.

Should I go ahead and do a major on it even though one was done 7,000 miles ago?

I assume with 79% clutch life, I would need a clutch somewhere around 30,000 miles and could have all of it done at once. I just don't want to take any chances and $5500 isnt "cheap" insurance but its insurance against a 40,000 repair!

What do you guys recommend?
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post #2 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 09:59 AM
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The clutch life scale on the 360 is inaccurate and in the 70% range somewhere they start malfunctioning. That car either needs a clutch, soon will need a clutch or the number has been manipulated.


The car was not due for a major service at 15k miles and it is still not due for one at 22k miles. That is a scam.

What it needs is belts at 3 year intervals. It also needs fluids every year or 5000 miles.


Find a Ferrari mechanic who understands your interests and his interests are shared and get advice.



By the way. $5500 for a major on a 360 is not a good deal.





The local Ferrari mechanic you should have already found is the one who should be telling you this and advising you in the process. You are going about this the wrong way and setting yourself up for trouble. Counting on namless, faceless people on the internet whose only bona fides are a keyboard and internet access isn't smart.

Last edited by Brian; 04-02-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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post #3 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Do you have a recommendation for anyone in the Chicago area?

I asked him if the service history showed a clutch and he said he didn't see one but the clutch had 79% life left remaining, not 79% used. He said they had it inspected when they brought it into inventory last month and thats when the clutch was measured.
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post #4 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 10:54 AM
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Sounds like you are dealing with a dealer. If you are genuinely interested in this particular car, don't take their word for it. Take the car to a mechanic and have a PPI done. Should cost around $300 and once you know the full details of what the car will need, you can negotiate better. The only dealer I've spoken to and been to in Chicago is Continental: Continental AutoSports | Maserati Prices - Ferrari 360 for Sale - Ferrari Certified Dealer

Lake Forest is another one but independents for this might be even better.
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post #5 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 11:00 AM
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WB- Clutch life can be explained two ways, 79% clutch life remaining (21% worn) or 79% worn (21% remaining). Very important to understand which you are being quoted.

Like Brian said, there are service intervals at mileage intervals only, like the 15,000 mile and 30,000 mile services, with air filters and spark plugs as examples, and then there are services for time or mileage, whichever occurs first. An example of this is oil changes, which on a 360 are every year or 15,000 miles (5000 miles for the first oil change), whichever comes first. For most Ferrari owners, a year passes way before 15,000 miles. Another example is cambelt changes, every 3 years or 30,000 miles, whichever comes first. Again, 3 years usually passes before 30,000 miles. If you change your belts every 3 years, there is no need to change them when 30,000 miles rolls around, even though there are other service items that need to be accomplished at 30,000 miles.

So go to ferraridatabase.com and download a 360 owners manual and familiarize yourself with what it says and make sure you understand it. Here is a sample page from an 02 MY owners manual.
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post #6 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Thank You, I did download the owners manual, thats what was conflicting with the dealer's advice. I personally did not speak to the mechanic, he spoke to the salesman and then relayed it to me. Continental is the dealer that he spoke with but I am going to call them and speak directly to the service department about why they recommended that. Maybe something was miscommunicated.

Thanks!
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post #7 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 11:09 AM
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WB- With Ferrari's actual recommendations in front of you, you will speak from a position of knowledge. This is not always the case with Ferrari owners.

Be advised there are sometimes omissions and mistakes in the tech data, like no interval for changing coolant, and some things are better changed more often than recommended, like transaxle fluid, but the tech data is the best we amateurs have.

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post #8 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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I spoke with Continental. They said they no longer perform PPI's. And he had recommended the major service because there wasn't any history in the ferrari database for the car. Not because of the mileage or intervals but just to make sure everything was tiptop since he didn't know the history. Very knowledgable group over there it seems like..
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post #9 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Sounds like you are dealing with a dealer. If you are genuinely interested in this particular car, don't take their word for it. Take the car to a mechanic and have a PPI done. Should cost around $300 and once you know the full details of what the car will need, you can negotiate better. The only dealer I've spoken to and been to in Chicago is Continental: Continental AutoSports | Maserati Prices - Ferrari 360 for Sale - Ferrari Certified Dealer

Lake Forest is another one but independents for this might be even better.


I simply cannot imagine a PPI worthy of serious consideration costing $300. Double that amount is the norm for anything of value. PPI has sadly come to mean anything between kicking the tires and doing a real look at the car. Unfortunately many are just a false sense of security performed by a shop or mechanic that knows they will never see you again.

Last edited by Brian; 04-02-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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post #10 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy222 View Post
I spoke with Continental. They said they no longer perform PPI's. And he had recommended the major service because there wasn't any history in the ferrari database for the car. Not because of the mileage or intervals but just to make sure everything was tiptop since he didn't know the history. Very knowledgable group over there it seems like..
Absense of information in their data base means nothing.


It was to insure their bank account remains tip top. Ferrari dealer service departments are suffering greatly from the lack of scheduled service on the late model cars and most have still not adjusted to that fact. Aggressive sales are being used instead of rethinking their roles in a business that has changed.

They are in the buggy whip business and have not come to grips with that reality.
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post #11 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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The lambo dealer is emailing me all the service history he has on the car right now. So as soon as I get that, I'll have a better grasp of exactly whats going on with the car. I'm hoping to negotiate that the lambo dealer pay the ferrari dealer for the belt and fluid service then I will have the Major 30k done when it's ready!
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post #12 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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It was to insure their bank account remains tip top.

So very well put!
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post #13 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 04:31 PM
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A few thoughts:

1) I have had 3 PPI's performed in the past 18 months or so. If they complete the checklist its usually 4 hours of labor. Also get a compression test which has been another 1-2 hours. My last one included all of that and was $750 performed by Fusion Motorsports in LA area. Hourly rates vary from indy to dealer and range from $110 to $160 per hour.

2) Here is what I do for 360s:

- Annual - change all fluids and filters each year = $1200 or thereabouts (range $1000 to $1600 I've seen). This is typically called an "annual" but does vary as to some of the fluids changed (usually the debate is around gearbox oil every 2 years rather than each year and doing this or not accounts for most of the range in prices...sometimes people also skip air filters (cabin and engine intake) and change those only every other year too and that accounts for the rest of the price differences you see). If you do the air filters and gearbox oil every 2 years, your costs will be ~$1000 year 1 and then $1600 year 2 or thereabouts.

- Get a "major" which, to me, includes fluids, filters, belts, pulley/idler bearings (sometimes also called tensioners or tensioner bearnings) every 3 years. I just had this done for $2977 + tax by a ferrari dealer that gave me 15% off of their standard rate of $3500. The range I've seen is $3k to $4k (essentially the belts/bearings are $2000 and the fluids/filters are $1500.
- Change spark plugs every 6-8 years. I just changed mine for $350 (again at the dealer and again with a 15% discount). My car was nearly 8 years old.

I have gotten quotes from 2 indy's and 2 dealers over the past year and they always were below $4k for the major as described above. Remember to ask for a discount. Scottsdale ferrari gave me one. Algar is running one right now. FofFL runs one from time to time. Auto Gallery too. I suspect they all do...I bet just by asking you can get 5%, 10% or 15% in some cases off.

Oh, these services also include the technician doing the SD reports, a visual inspection checklist and a test drive inspection. In most car brands these are a waste in my experience...not in Ferrari's!
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post #14 of 17 Old 04-02-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy222 View Post
The lambo dealer is emailing me all the service history he has on the car right now. So as soon as I get that, I'll have a better grasp of exactly whats going on with the car. I'm hoping to negotiate that the lambo dealer pay the ferrari dealer for the belt and fluid service then I will have the Major 30k done when it's ready!
A belt and fluid service = "major". So if you get them to pay for this you will not have anything to do at 30k. Also, have them change the plugs as well which should be another $400 or so.

There is typically little difference and the word "major" is a poor fit in terms of 360 maint IMHO. See my post above...again, in 99% of cases these cars are serviced based on elapsed TIME not elapsed miles...(unless its one of the sub 1% of f-cars that see more than 10k miles per year!)
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post #15 of 17 Old 05-23-2012, 03:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by waterboy222 View Post
The clutch snapshot shows 79% good...
I just came across this thread as a result of a search for fusion motorsports. But I couldn't help but laugh at the EXTRAORDINARY accuracy that this dealer (not fusion) provided for the clutch lining wear. Not 78% or 80%, but precisely 79%.
LOL
Good stuff....

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Last edited by HeelToe; 05-23-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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post #16 of 17 Old 05-23-2012, 08:45 PM
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Marco- An SD2 or SD3 gives a read-out that is that precise, even if it is meaningless in absolute terms. All the technician did was write down the SD reading.

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post #17 of 17 Old 05-29-2012, 07:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Marco- An SD2 or SD3 gives a read-out that is that precise, even if it is meaningless in absolute terms. All the technician did was write down the SD reading.
Understood. But I still got a good chuckle out of it.

If I had been in that tech's position, I probably would have just rounded it to "approximately 80%".

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