360 Looking at a 360 with replacement engine - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Looking at a 360 with replacement engine

First post here, but have been digging through threads the past few days reading as much as I can on the 360.

I'm in the market for one but haven't decided modena or spyder. I guess I'll make up my mind when I come across the perfect one!

I have a couple of questions that I hope you guys can help me with. I'm looking at a 2002 spyder right now. I asked the owner to provide service history and he sent me a copy of his last invoice showing the service. The car has 10k miles on it and here is what the invoice shows:

-Engine out Major Service
-R&R Engine and transmission for leaking head gaskets
-R&R Convertible top assembly
-Disassemble engine
-Remove Cylinder Heads,
-Resurface Heads
-Install new Engine block to Cylinder studs
-Install new Knock sensors, and Phase sensors
-Replace clutch, pressure plate, and clutch release bearing
-Install new O-rings at fuel tanks
-Install 1 float valve at SX fuel tank
-Assemble vehicle
-Road Test Vehicle

To the tune of about $14,000.. The item in red is the one I have concern about.. Is this something that is usually done around 10k miles?? Surely not, I've not seen anything like this on other invoices with cars that have equal miles. Maybe its their wording when they say *new engine block* that they are referring to the block that had head work?

Can someone shed some light on this?

Also, where should I be looking online for these cars? Ive tried ebay, dupont registry, cars.com and auto trader. Am I missing any of the good ones?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 10:21 AM
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I don't know specifically but I find that extreem: Caution.

Those blocks were NOT known to fail. I suspect a thrashed engine.

I would like to know who did the work, and when. Sounds like a quick sale.

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post #3 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
I don't know specifically but I find that extreem: Caution.

Those blocks were NOT known to fail. I suspect a thrashed engine.

I would like to know who did the work, and when. Sounds like a quick sale.
The work was done in july '11.. I'd be happy to PM you the name of the place that did the work and details, but I don't want to post other peoples information on the car and hinder the sale if I don't get it..
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post #4 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 11:50 AM
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Welcome to FerrariLife Waterboy Well, that's quite a major engine rebuild and I'm intrigued to know what happened to this engine. As said by Granucci, I never heard of such a major engine failure which is affecting the engine block. Also, I'm surprised that the total invoice amount is only 14K. I would expect a much higher amount for such level of work. I really would investigate seriously before even considering buying this car knowing that there are many others available with a clean history. Please tell us more

Last edited by StefVan; 03-14-2012 at 01:26 PM. Reason: spelling ;)
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post #5 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Thats what I thought, the price for a belt/clutch service with other minor repairs would be close to 14k, but a whole new block would cost at least 8k in parts alone.. I've emailed the seller and waiting a response. The car is blue with a matte wrap, body kit, wheels and exhaust on it too. He has at least 5 exotics in his stable. This was his second 360. The first one was white with a hamaan body kit and wheels too.
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post #6 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 12:54 PM
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I don't read that as installing a new block but rather replacing the studs that hold the heads on. You might find that one or more were stripped or stretched. Stretched studs could also explain the leaking gaskets.
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post #7 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AlanWard View Post
I don't read that as installing a new block but rather replacing the studs that hold the heads on. You might find that one or more were stripped or stretched. Stretched studs could also explain the leaking gaskets.

good catch. Perhaps read that wrong. For instance IF a new bottom end were needed I would have expected something more catestrophic to include some top end, but guess it could have been just studs.

I don't need the name of the person doing the work, my question was more to and assuming "the quality of the mechanic doing the work" as in not hoping it were some out of place mech type. So, I'd expect it were an authorized dealer of such.

Just interesting on the wording. IF back in 2011, I wonder on how many miles and such were applied since then. IF studs, then not a big issue to me.

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post #8 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanWard View Post
I don't read that as installing a new block but rather replacing the studs that hold the heads on. You might find that one or more were stripped or stretched. Stretched studs could also explain the leaking gaskets.
That how I read it too.

To the OP, if the work wasn't done by a dealership with an absolutely stellar reputation, I wouldn't be able to run fast enough away from the car. Just my $.02, but there are a lot more folks that do questionable work than do high-quality work. Not trying to scare you away from what might be a good deal, but rebuilding an engine isn't something to be taken lightly. I'd want tons of photos to backup the work and I'd probably talk to the shop myself.
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post #9 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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Ok guys, I spoke with the shop that did the work and the wording on that line is supposed to say:
- Install new cylinder studs to engine block

(NOT install new engine block to cylinder studs)

He said that the car had overheated because of a leaking head gasket. They changed out the gaskets, studs and resurfaced the heads. The engine oil and coolant was sent off for testing and came back "good", which he also has the documentation for that...

Its a relief to hear that it doesn't have a new engine block in it. But he said that there would be a few things on the PPI that he knows of off hand. The spoiler on it is really too large, it bends under speed and has left a few mars on the wrap from where the ends have bent down and rubbed the car. Its a carbon fiber body kit and he thinks he remembers some damage around the front bottom because its so low to the ground..

Any thoughts on body kits?
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post #10 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 01:58 PM
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H2O,

A single leaking head gasket is one thing, resurfacing BOTH heads makes me think the engine was over-temped. The new clutch within 10K miles all but confirms it.

The top mechanism shouldn't have needed to be replaced unless the top was left down for long periods and not cycled regularly.

This car was almost certainly used hard and/or had deferred maintenance during its life.

With so many good 360s on the market, there is absolutely no reason to consider one with this history.
Let me repeat that: NO REASON.

You're searching on the right sites, be patient, you'll find a good one.

PS - welcome to the forum.

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post #11 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 02:01 PM
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To quote Lord Humongous (or was it Al?):

Just Walk Away.

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post #12 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
H2O,

A single leaking head gasket is one thing, resurfacing BOTH heads makes me think the engine was over-temped. The new clutch within 10K miles all but confirms it.

You're searching on the right sites, be patient, you'll find a good one.
+100, not worth while there are so many good cars out there But thanks for posting, it's always very interesting to learn from such cases
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post #13 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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This is the car that I was discussing. Since it doesn't have a "new engine block", I don't feel bad posting a picture and getting opinions/concerns now..
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post #14 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
H2O,

A single leaking head gasket is one thing, resurfacing BOTH heads makes me think the engine was over-temped. The new clutch within 10K miles all but confirms it.

The top mechanism shouldn't have needed to be replaced unless the top was left down for long periods and not cycled regularly.

This car was almost certainly used hard and/or had deferred maintenance during its life.
This is a great piece of knowledge. I wasn't aware that the top needed to be cycled. Every picture I've received of the car, the top has been down in the garage.

If anyone knows of a good deal on a 360 F1 in Red or Yellow (spider or modena) with exhaust already installed and services up to date for a *good* price, please let me know. I like cars that have already had some of the aftermarket options done, like wheels/exhaust/tint/stereo/etc because there really aren't many good shops around here.

[email protected]

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post #15 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 03:20 PM
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WB- Welcome to Ferrari Life. One other source you might consider is Ferrari Market Letter, available hard copy and on line. You might also go through all the FNA dealer sites and see if they have any 360s for sale. They usually wholesale/auction the poorer cars and keep the better ones to sell themselves.

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post #16 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Terry, The FNA idea did get me a couple of good leads!
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post #17 of 17 Old 03-14-2012, 04:26 PM
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Black Horse Garage just had an 04 Spider on eBay that didn't sell.

Red, stick, w/ Daytona seats and 18K on the clock. It looks to be in good shape.

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