F430 Installed PAGID RS19 on the scud... - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Installed PAGID RS19 on the scud...

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Needed to change the pads in front on my 430 Scuderia. Got PAGID RS19 from my dealer, checking the original pads it reads S600. Anyone else tried RS19 on their Scud in the front. What can I expect on daily drive v.s. track use?

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post #2 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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And a few pictures of the result...

Any special procedure when bedding-in CCB brakes?

Read somewhere:
60mph to 30 brake hard 10 times.
90mph to 40 brake hard 10 times.

Anyone with experience of this, cant seem to find any consistent info on the web.
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post #3 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 12:21 PM
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Johan, here is the official bedding in procedure.
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post #4 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 12:30 PM
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The RS19 pads are usually used on the F430Challenge. They are real race pads while the S600 pads are more suitable for street use (longer lasting). Although, if you want to race often, the S600 OEM pads will wear out very fast on track as they will struggle to deal with the heat.
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post #5 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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OK
Thanks for the info :-)

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post #6 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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So if I am reading this correct:

Step1: Breaking 16 times from 80 to 30 (light pressure) with no cooling in between + 2 min cooling

Step 2: Breaking 16 times from 120 to 30 (medium pressure) with no cooling in between + 3 min cooling

Step:3 Breaking 5 times with ABS lock from 120 to full stop and then 3 min cooling.

And for racing adding 130 to 30 9 times and then 4 min cooling and then 3 full stop breakes from 200 with ABS lock and 5 min cooling.

That's a really long procedure, hope it is worth it ;-)

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post #7 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johan6504 View Post
So if I am reading this correct:

Step1: Breaking 16 times from 80 to 30 (light pressure) with no cooling in between + 2 min cooling

Step 2: Breaking 16 times from 120 to 30 (medium pressure) with no cooling in between + 3 min cooling

Step:3 Breaking 5 times with ABS lock from 120 to full stop and then 3 min cooling.

And for racing adding 130 to 30 9 times and then 4 min cooling and then 3 full stop breakes from 200 with ABS lock and 5 min cooling.

That's a really long procedure, hope it is worth it ;-)
That's correct Johan. It's a long procedure, I agree, and you'll need a clear road to achieve this. But it's vital if you want your new pads to perform well
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post #8 of 52 Old 02-23-2012, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Stef: Read your review of the Texa system and realize that there is a software reset for the brakes. My question is: Is it necessary to do some kind of software check/maneuver after changing the pads?

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post #9 of 52 Old 02-24-2012, 12:27 AM
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Normally yes, you should tell the ECU each time you're changing the pads. The ECU will take that in consideration when calculating the CCM rotors % wear but we know anyway that we should change the rotors every 2 pad changes. Not setting the pad change parameter is not going to stop your car but if you intend to resell it, it will have unaccurate data
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post #10 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 07:11 AM
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Johan, how are the PAGID RS19 pads doing? Are you happy with them? Do they also perform well with street driving?
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post #11 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Johan, how are the PAGID RS19 pads doing? Are you happy with them? Do they also perform well with street driving?
No problems at all, very happy.

I changed to RS29 at the rear before my first track day so I am now on RS19 at the front and RS29 at the rear.

At normal street driving there is never any problem, the brakes are so big I never notice that they are cold. However at the track they need a couple of corners before they heat up and perform as expected.

One thing I have noticed, not sure it is related to these pads is a slight hissing noise when braking softly. Noting major and I hardly notice with the windows up, but I think the originals were almost silent. Another thing is that the rear RS29 couldn't fit the brake warning cable. No big deal as I will keep track of usage anyway.

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post #12 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 08:15 AM
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Johan- Quite a few of the Ferraris, including my 575M, did not have rear warning wires, so not a big deal on your rears. Guess the theory was the rear wear out at about the same rate.

Stef- Good info and it goes on the hard drive.

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post #13 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 09:20 AM
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Thanks Johan for the review. It's something I may consider also. Did you find that they bite harder than the stock pads? I'm not very happy with my CCM these last months and need to check them. I lost the BITE and they hardly slow down the car at speeds >200 km/h or downhill on mountain roads.

First thing I need to do this WE is to bleed again the brakes. Now, with the Texa, I can bleed them by activating electronically the pump. If this doesn't help, I'll check each caliper and make sure that all pistons are operating well with no traces of corrosion and brake fluid.

It would be also the opportunity the upgrade my stock pistons to the HI corrosion resistant 316L Stainless steel pistons and their seals : http://www.hillengineering.co.uk/cat...csf-p-379.html

Any other advice is very welcome
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post #14 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Stef
I have never felt that I need more stopping power with the new pads. I tested them earlier today and made a series of brakes. Braking hard from 250 kmh almost made my eyes bleed ;-)

Quick brakes on my favorite twisty road were very precise and I cant really ask for better brakes... But as I said earlier for spirited driving the RS19/29 pads do however need some heat in them. Once they are warm they really bite :-)

Thinking about it, another thing I noticed is that for maximum braking (especially from high speed) you really need to use your leg, HARD...

Where in Switzerland are you, I will spend next weekend in the Geneva area...

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post #15 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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By the way, thanks for the tip about the pistons. Didn't know the 430 Scuderia had this problem as well...

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post #16 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 12:53 PM
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Stef- If you change your brake fluid annually, you do not need those SS pistons. The only reason they corrode is water in the brake fluid and we change brake fluid so frequently, it is not necessary.

They were a big deal for early Corvettes, where nobody changed the brake fluid very often, so water would accumulate and cause corrosion. I change the ones on my father's Corvette when that happened. Plus our brake fluids now are not nearly as hygroscopic as the old brake fluids were.

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post #17 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 01:15 PM
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Thanks Terry for your advice. I wasn't aware that the corrosion problems can come from the water in the brake fluid and not from outside. I thought maybe that dust could scratch the pistons and then they could corrode easily. If I can't find any air in the hydraulics then I must have a stuck piston at the front. When braking hard, at the first moment, I can feel very well that the braking power isn't balanced between both front wheels.
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post #18 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johan6504 View Post
Where in Switzerland are you, I will spend next weekend in the Geneva area...
Oh, Geneva is nice. I live in Montreux which is 1h from Geneva and about 10 fixed radars distance on the motorway Are you going to drive all the way down there with your Scud?
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post #19 of 52 Old 06-02-2012, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StefVan View Post
Oh, Geneva is nice. I live in Montreux which is 1h from Geneva and about 10 fixed radars distance on the motorway Are you going to drive all the way down there with your Scud?
No Scud this time :-(

We (the whole family) are on our way to south of France for vacation, will visit friends just west of Nyon in a small village called Coinsins... The MB E500T will have to do the work this time...

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post #20 of 52 Old 06-13-2012, 02:22 PM
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Johan,

I am finally getting around to fitting my Scuderia/F430 Challenge big brake upgrade. After inspection the old F430 Challenge front stock pads [RS19's I believe] really need replacement so I'm also looking for new pads....

After doing a bit of searching on Pagid E8091 [the Front Scuderia pads] I see that this guide [see below] seems to indicate that you can get both RS29 and RS19 fitment in E8091. Is this true?

Q. Also did you pay around 750 Euro's for the carbon pads ? I haven't yet checked with my supplier so be interested to know how much you paid.

See;
http://www.motorquality.it/easysite1...%202012-02.pdf

I currently run RS29 pads on both Front & Rear on my existing CS CCM's (380mm) fronts and they have excellent braking [IMHO].

Whats your recommendation since you run RS19's at front and RS29's at the rear! Why? I currently have RS29's on the rear [virtually brand new].

Should I also go with RS29's at the back and RS19's at the front? Why did you go with this combination? I was under the impression the RS29's where better for CCM life yet almost the same performance as the more aggressive RS19's? So why not RS29's all around? Did you just want that big more grip from the fronts?

Finally how are you getting on with this combo?

Thanks
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