A Few Quick Questions - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 02-21-2012, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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A Few Quick Questions

Thanks to the OPer for the wealth of knowledge so neatly sumarrized. I found it very helpful, especially the part aout US vs. Euro imported vehicle. Plus I now have "PPI is critical" tattooed on my forehead. Ha.

Few quick questions:
1. What is the ideal mileage on a used 360?
I read somewhere that it should be ~2,000 miles a year otherwise the hoses dry out, the temp doesn't get hot enough to burn off the condensation (I think 158F but not 100% sure), bald patches on the tires appear, etc.

I am not worried about the minor issues like tires because I just assume they need to be replaced, but wonder if major issues can happen with low milegae Ferraris even if they had all the maintenance carefully done and documented.

Basically, if I were looking at 2 identical Ferrari 360s for sale with same color, same options, same model year, etc., but one had xxx miles on it and the other had yyy miles on it, which is the better vehicle? I can adjust mentally for the difference in price cos I imagine a big difference in mileage will be reflected in the price.

BTW, I do intend to drive my vehicle. Not as a DD, but it definitely won't be a garage queen. And I do know that this will impact the resale value, but oh well...

2. What is the best model year Ferrari 360 to buy (depreciation curve a minor consideration)?
On one hand, I am told buy the latest Ferrari one can afford. On the other hand, the newer the Ferrari, the more expensive it gets.

So if I could afford to spend a range and didnt mind paying $10K more or $10K less, which model year should I go for? Again assuming all things equal. I hear that pre 2002 had some issue with TCU and others so buying at least 2002 model year onwards. I do know that the manifold issue IS a problem with all 360s and wasn't fixed until post 2008 430 model.

Related question would be what was new/improved in 2003? 2004? And 2005? If the improvements were minor and cosmetic, I am cheap and would rather shop for the 2002 year. As you can tell, I seem fixated on 2002 as the cheapest 360 I can afford with all the minor kinks worked out.

Any advice?


Thanks,
Drooler
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post #2 of 8 Old 02-21-2012, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drooler View Post
Thanks to the OPer for the wealth of knowledge so neatly sumarrized. I found it very helpful, especially the part aout US vs. Euro imported vehicle. Plus I now have "PPI is critical" tattooed on my forehead. Ha.

Few quick questions:
1. What is the ideal mileage on a used 360?
I read somewhere that it should be ~2,000 miles a year otherwise the hoses dry out, the temp doesn't get hot enough to burn off the condensation (I think 158F but not 100% sure), bald patches on the tires appear, etc.

I am not worried about the minor issues like tires because I just assume they need to be replaced, but wonder if major issues can happen with low milegae Ferraris even if they had all the maintenance carefully done and documented.

Basically, if I were looking at 2 identical Ferrari 360s for sale with same color, same options, same model year, etc., but one had xxx miles on it and the other had yyy miles on it, which is the better vehicle? I can adjust mentally for the difference in price cos I imagine a big difference in mileage will be reflected in the price.

BTW, I do intend to drive my vehicle. Not as a DD, but it definitely won't be a garage queen. And I do know that this will impact the resale value, but oh well...

2. What is the best model year Ferrari 360 to buy (depreciation curve a minor consideration)?
On one hand, I am told buy the latest Ferrari one can afford. On the other hand, the newer the Ferrari, the more expensive it gets.

So if I could afford to spend a range and didnt mind paying $10K more or $10K less, which model year should I go for? Again assuming all things equal. I hear that pre 2002 had some issue with TCU and others so buying at least 2002 model year onwards. I do know that the manifold issue IS a problem with all 360s and wasn't fixed until post 2008 430 model.

Related question would be what was new/improved in 2003? 2004? And 2005? If the improvements were minor and cosmetic, I am cheap and would rather shop for the 2002 year. As you can tell, I seem fixated on 2002 as the cheapest 360 I can afford with all the minor kinks worked out.

Any advice?


Thanks,
Drooler
Are you looking for an F1 or manual? If the latter than model year is even less relevant.

Have you downloaded the buyers guide: Ferrari Buyer's Guides - Ferrari Life
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post #3 of 8 Old 02-21-2012, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Buyer's Guide

@Boxer,
Thanks for the quick reply.

i am interested in the F1 transmission.

Regarding the Buyer's Guide, I did purchase it. Very interesting and definitely reinforces the need to shop around very carefully and do a PPI.


Regards,
Drooler
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post #4 of 8 Old 02-22-2012, 10:07 AM
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It is difficult to answer your questions, but generally a well driven car does better IMO. Regular serviced by a qualified tech is next.

As for 'investment' vs depreciation that should not be a consideration for entering the Ferrari familia....driving the snot out of it and enjoying it's nuances [ to include quirks of the pocketbook] is a reason.

I suspect your choice of a 360 is better in the run than earlier models, but expect more depreciation....there were a ton of them produced and they haven't seen bottom yet. The model is better sorted in terms of problem resolution from the get go....that is, there is little to fear of the engines and electricals etc.

Not sure of your desire for or entry level, but I would prefer the 430, albeit, it is NOT fully depreciated in any sort of way yet.

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post #5 of 8 Old 02-22-2012, 12:19 PM
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D- The F1 ECU/TCU was upgraded at both Assembly Number 47115 and Assembly Number 47380. These ECU/TCUs provided smoother shifting and also the capability for the point of initial slippage (PIS) to be manually set with an SD2. Before, PIS had to be auto adjusted, commanded by the SD2, and then the clutch plate thickness parameter was adjusted to get best results. Those ANs correspond roughly with serial numbers 1299XX and1300XX, but those could be off a bit since they are based on 575M serial numbers and assembly numbers. Looks like about the middle of the 02 MY, but with serial and assembly numbers, model year makes no difference. Ferrari was not making big changes by MY during 360 production. They did during F430 production.

Personally, I would get as low a mileage car as you can afford, but many will disagree with that. In practice, my car had 15,000 miles when I got her, so I did not pay much attention to my own advice. Mileage really does not have much of an effect on those items you worried about as long as the car is brought up to full temperature every time she is driven. Better one long drive a week than 10 short trips, even if the latter was three times the mileage. What you really want is a well maintained car, which is what the PPI should tell you. Come to think of it, I never had one of those either.

In general the 360s have been pretty reliable. Change the F1 pump relay as soon as you get the car and regularly thereafter. Will keep your relay from fusing and burning out your pump motor.

Have fun with the chase. Half the fun of owning a Ferrari is finding a good one (well, almost half the fun).

Taz
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post #6 of 8 Old 02-22-2012, 01:12 PM
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Taz: On second thought the low mileage makes sense in even my own terms that there are many 360's out there. Might as well go for the best example with the lowest miles as many many to select even in color combo desired.

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


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Past:
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1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
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post #7 of 8 Old 02-22-2012, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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@Boxer. I re-read the buyer's guide and it stated on one of the last few pages that MY2001 and above was ok. For some reason I always had 2002 fixed in my mind. I think it was a Michael Sheehan article(s) I read.

Anyhows, thanks for the reminder. This means I can include 2001 MY in my search... Until I read Taz's comments about mid 2002 MY having the better/upgraded ECUs.


@Granucci. Thanks for the advise. Agree that service records would be critical. On a related note, I have seen the threads on independents vs. F-dealers. Plus the nuance of some independents having more expertise in certain types of F cars (i.e. Enzo era vs. Fiat era vs. current, etc.).

To clarify, I am not concerned with invesment value. My take is that "mass produced' 360s will continue to depreciate. Difference being a 2001 MY 360 that I drive for 3 years will depreciate less vs. a 2005 MY 360 that I drive for 3 years when I sell after 3 years.

Regarding the 430, the more I look at the 360s, the more I like the 360s. I understand the 430 is even more technologically advanced, but that is a moot point for me because it is beyond my budget.


@Taz. Wow.... That is why I love this forum. Was clearly not aware of the specifics about which assembly lines and when, but was only aware that MY2002 and up had the improved ECUs.

Your knowledge and insights mean that even an early MY2002 will likely have the older ECU. One more thing to look out for that I will put on the list.... : )

Regarding mileage, I figure I will put in 3K to 5K miles a year so buying an ultra low mileage car (less than 10K?) and paying the premium for it will be negated by me driving it vs. staring at it everyday in the garage. Plus the mileage would be even higher if not for the fact that Chicago pretty much is snowed it from Dec till Mar.

Agree that the research and the chase is half the fun. : )
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post #8 of 8 Old 02-22-2012, 02:31 PM
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D- The average time someone other than a collector keeps a newer Ferrari is around three years (posterior number) before they move up to something newer, like an F430 for you. Plan accordingly. High mileage plus lots of driving may be harder to trade than low mileage plus lots of driving.

Model years really meant nothing to Ferrari until around 2005, when changes for the F430 started to be done by US model year.

Taz
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Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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