F430 Redline gearbox oil. Which one? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-31-2012, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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Redline gearbox oil. Which one?

It seems like Redline is a fan favorite for our gearboxes and I've used it with positive results in other vehicles in the past.

I'm curious though, is it the standard 75w/90 or the 75w/90NS that is better suited? I ask because I've read several threads where people recommend the NS fluid, which specifically lacks the friction modifiers of the standard 75w/90, but then also recommend adding a bottle of friction modifier to it. Why not just use the standard 75w/90 which already contains the friction modifiers to begin with?

Just looking for a little clarification/recommendations from people who have had success changing the fluid in their gearbox.
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-31-2012, 12:59 PM
 
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Both are great oils for the gear box.
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post #3 of 22 Old 01-31-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWay View Post
It seems like Redline is a fan favorite for our gearboxes and I've used it with positive results in other vehicles in the past.

I'm curious though, is it the standard 75w/90 or the 75w/90NS that is better suited? I ask because I've read several threads where people recommend the NS fluid, which specifically lacks the friction modifiers of the standard 75w/90, but then also recommend adding a bottle of friction modifier to it. Why not just use the standard 75w/90 which already contains the friction modifiers to begin with?

Just looking for a little clarification/recommendations from people who have had success changing the fluid in their gearbox.
The NS is the one to use. The diff gears are of the hypoid type and the standard 75/90 is not a hypoid oil. Using a non-hypoid oil in a diff that needs hypoid will cause the gear facings to wear needing eventual replacement. Friction modifiers effect the synchros and should only be used if needed and then only as little as possible. Redline list the 75/90NS on their site for the Ferrari specifically. Not sure what better recommendation there could be.

Dick Maury, Rebuild Manager-Coventry West, Past JCNA President
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-31-2012, 01:50 PM
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As I wrote you Alex, I stick with the Shell Spirax S5 ATE 75W90 Gear/Transaxle oil which is the right oil for the F430 gearbox. It has the right quantity of friction modifiers. And is reasonnably priced. Don't we change our gearbox oil every year? That's what counts most.
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post #5 of 22 Old 01-31-2012, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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The Shell Spirax is a bit hard to come by here whereas the Redline products are readily available.
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-31-2012, 08:38 PM
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Stef- I think there are transaxle fluids that are superior to the Shell product, and Redline is one of them. I use Valvoline Synthetic 75W-90 in mine, and prefer that to the Shell transaxle oil. The Shell named products in the US are the low end lubricants from Shell Oil and high end products like the transaxle oil you use are difficult to find here except in bulk quantities. Shell's high end lubricants are Quaker State and Pennzoil in the US. both, obviously, owned by Shell.

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post #7 of 22 Old 01-31-2012, 11:12 PM
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Sure Terry, I agree that oil availability depends on the markets.

What about Amsoil Synthetic Manual Transmission and Transaxle Gear Lube 75W-90 API GL-4 (MTG) ? I've read very good reports about this product but never tried.
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post #8 of 22 Old 02-01-2012, 08:56 AM
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Do the US Ferrari dealerships use the good, imported shell fluids or the lower quality US versions? TIA

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post #9 of 22 Old 02-01-2012, 10:15 AM
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US versions are not lower quality. Branding has nothing to do with quality. It is strictly about marketing. If a lubricant meets standards, it should work fine. It is just that there are better deals. and sometimes better lubricants, for most applications. As an example, the Shell Synthetic Helix Ultra oil is rebranded in the US as Quaker State Q. Same stuff, different container. One is $20/liter, and the other is $8/qt. I have tried both the Shell and the Quaker State Q and both foamed too much for me and my techs, so we switched to Valvoline, which does not foam and has done well in comparison tests.

Similarly, Shell Donax UB brake fluid tends to leave a gummy residue, so we switched to Castrol LMA, which bubbled too much, and then to ATE Blue, which works great.

You and your techs have to review what goes into your car and make sure it is not causing problems.

If you look at Bradan's service and restoration threads, they swear by Redline lubricants. I swear by Valvoline. As long as you are making educated choices, you will be fine. If an FNA dealer is doing the servicing, you will get Shell products.

Like Stef says, if you change fluids regularly, you will not have problems as long as your lubricant/fluid meets specs and standards.

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post #10 of 22 Old 02-02-2012, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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I selected the 75W90 NS oil. While we're on topic, does anyone know off hand the gearbox drain bolt hex size? I'll need to pick up a bit if I don't have one handy.

Thanks!
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post #11 of 22 Old 02-02-2012, 10:02 AM
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Andrew- Here is what I have on F430 transaxle oil changes. Did not check to see if it has the hex wrench size. You might want to pick up a set that you can use with your torque wrench.

Nope, no hex bolt size.
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post #12 of 22 Old 02-02-2012, 10:05 AM
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Sorry Andrew, I don't remember which exact Allen size I'm using for the gearbox as I'm using the entire set which has all sizes. It is a large one for sure. If you have doubts and don't want to buy an entire set of hex sockets, you can easily measure the plug and buy the exact size.
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post #13 of 22 Old 02-02-2012, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks gents! I'll sort it out and post up the hex size once I've finished. I just wanted to be prepared ahead of time.
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post #14 of 22 Old 02-05-2012, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Finished this up yesterday and just wanted to add my notes.

The drain bolt takes a 14mm hex bit. It would be advisable to have a longer (2 inches+ if possible) hex bit as clearance is a small issue with the gearbox housing. The extra bit length will help engage the drain bolt at a straighter and more positive angle.

Otherwise very straight forward. The bolt to remove the mesh filter is an 8mm. And finally, the dipstick/fill bolt takes a 12mm hex bit to remove.

I believe the guide says the gearbox takes 3.5 liters to fill but I assume that is bone dry and factory fill. I was only able to re-fill with 2.75 liters of new Redline 75W90 NS fluid before it got between the max and min lines. (closer to max than min) That was with the car being relatively warm still from a drive and blowing air through the union as described in the DIY to remove as much old fluid as possible.

With the right tools on hand to begin with I reckon this would be a 2 hour job at most for the average DIY guy.
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post #15 of 22 Old 02-05-2012, 08:48 AM
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Andrew- Thanks for the info in hex sizes and glad it went smoothly. As you discovered, it is virtually impossible to get all the oil out, but most of the oil in there is new, so works fine.

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post #16 of 22 Old 03-23-2012, 07:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWay View Post
Finished this up yesterday and just wanted to add my notes.

The drain bolt takes a 14mm hex bit. It would be advisable to have a longer (2 inches+ if possible) hex bit as clearance is a small issue with the gearbox housing. The extra bit length will help engage the drain bolt at a straighter and more positive angle.

Otherwise very straight forward. The bolt to remove the mesh filter is an 8mm. And finally, the dipstick/fill bolt takes a 12mm hex bit to remove.

I believe the guide says the gearbox takes 3.5 liters to fill but I assume that is bone dry and factory fill. I was only able to re-fill with 2.75 liters of new Redline 75W90 NS fluid before it got between the max and min lines. (closer to max than min) That was with the car being relatively warm still from a drive and blowing air through the union as described in the DIY to remove as much old fluid as possible.

With the right tools on hand to begin with I reckon this would be a 2 hour job at most for the average DIY guy.
Did you add frction modifier? If you did, how much did you add?
TIA.
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post #17 of 22 Old 03-23-2012, 08:29 AM
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W- Welcome to Ferrari Life. In general, you should only add friction modifiers if you need them. In most cases the NS will work fine without them, just like my Valvoline product. In cases where there is noise from the limited slip, like there has been for some cars with both the NS and Valvoline, small amounts of modifier are added until the noise disappears.

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post #18 of 22 Old 03-23-2012, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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Taz is right. No friction modifier needed. (no chatter or other ill effects)
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post #19 of 22 Old 03-23-2012, 04:05 PM
 
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Thanks for the responses.The reason I asked is because I just had my engine and gear oil changed yesterday. Engine oil was Mobil 1 5w40 and gear oil was Redline 75w90 ns. My indy tech added 1 bottle of 4 oz. Redline FM to 2.8 qt of Redline 75w90 ns gear oil fill. I used to experience chatter during slow turns with the Shell gear oil, but now with redline + FM =NO chatter at all even if I try to duplicate it.
Is 1 bottle of 4oz FM added to 2.8 qts of RL gear oil, too much? I figured its about 3.4% by volume.
Thanks!
btw, car is f430

Last edited by wildkalabaw; 03-23-2012 at 05:08 PM.
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post #20 of 22 Old 03-23-2012, 07:16 PM
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W- It varies from car to car. Some individual cars seem to have limited slips that need varying amounts of friction modifier. One of the pros may have a better idea how much is normal.

No noise is good, though. What tends to happen is too much friction modifier makes the synchro rings too slippery to work well. Watch for any difficulty shifting, especially if the car is a three pedal. Will be harder to tell with the F1 system, because the 900 or so psi hydraulic pressure will make the shifts work. If you hear any graunching noises when shifting, might be time to rethink how much friction modifier you need.

Brian- You out there for an educated opinion?

Never mind, it is Friday night and some people actually have a life.

Taz
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