F430 LED Tail Lights Comparison and Review - Page 5 - Ferrari Life
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post #81 of 929 Old 09-18-2012, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Update ;)

The summer has been very busy working on the design and specifications of new LED light bulbs which are now very very bright, well brighter than a normal light bulb or the previous 6/7.5W LED lights. The challenge was to combine an extreme high level of luminance, two independent high profile current drivers, a maximum rated current of 300mA and a specific designed heat sink + special silicone to dissipate the heat. All this must fit in a normal 1157/1156 light bulb! I finished testing the final prototype and the results are there. The new electronic current drivers do most of the work and deliver a very stable current whatever the provided voltage or the level of wire noise is.

These LED lights are specified for 50.000 hours minimum which is more than 5.5 years permanent operation.

I will launch the production of them soon and these new LED lights will be available in 1157 (430) or 1156 (360) sockets in Red, White and Yellow. These new LED lights will also be used and integrated in the new tail light bulb holders as well as the new LED signal light.

1157/1156 White : 600 lm (compared to 280 lm of the 6W LED light)
1157/1156 Red : 450 lm (compared to 200 lm of the 6W LED light)
1157/1156 Yellow : 450 lm (compared to 200 lm of the 6W LED light)

I will post pictures soon where the new parking/stop LED light will be compared with a standard light bulb.
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post #82 of 929 Old 09-20-2012, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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New generation of High Power LED Lights

As promised, here are the pictures comparing the new High Power LED ready for production. After many many prototypes and considerable investments, I must say that Im very happy to come up with the ideal LED light.

The pictures dont do justice but they give still a good idea of the difference between an incandescent bulb and the new High Power LED. In the real world, the difference is even more noticeable in terms of brightness and yellowish vs deep red colour.

Here are the specs of the different versions (W expressed at 12.0V):

1157 Red High Power LED 450lm Parking: 40mA = 0.5W

1157 Red High Power LED 450lm Stop: 280mA = 3.4W

1156 White High Power LED 600lm 400mA = 4.8W

1156 Red High Power LED 450lm 310mA = 3.7W

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An "apercu" of the new beast:
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Integrated double current driver using high profile components:
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The new tail light bulb holder kit will also include a specific developed and sized High Power LED light used for the centre reverse and signal lights. Here are the pictures comparing the H6W incandescent bulb with the new LED light:

Reverse light:
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Signal light:
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post #83 of 929 Old 09-21-2012, 06:23 AM
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Sweet! I like what I'm seeing.
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post #84 of 929 Old 09-21-2012, 10:28 AM
 
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2 quick question friends
First these new bulbs with lens is overheating after 15-20 minutes. So i have doubts whether we can use them to replace park and fog lights. But it is the perfect solution for brake lamp.
Secondly what is the alternative relay for oem one if we replace yellow-direction bulbs with leds? it is quite unique product with 7 plug on it.
Ant advice is more than wellcome
thanks
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post #85 of 929 Old 09-21-2012, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Hakan, these LEDs don't "overheat", I've being taking a lot of care on that aspect. Other LEDs may overheat though as I demonstrated in this thread before. The secret is in how the heat sink is designed and how components are assembled together using a specific silica gel. I use also special Tantalum capacitors while other LEDs use disk capacitors. Tantalum capacitors are much more expensive but are not sensitive to high temperatures. There are a couple of other things that will make a High Power LED run cooler but I can't deliver this know how here
My High Power 1157/1156 LED:
Parking: maximum temperature reached after 24h operation (still position with ambient temp. of 23C): 28C max.
Stop/Fog: maximum temperature reached after 24h operation (still position with ambient temp. of 23C): 61C max.

Compare that to a 1157 incandescent light bulb which reaches 180C after 2 minutes
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post #86 of 929 Old 09-21-2012, 11:38 PM
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I have been looking forward to this Stef!

Please count me in for a set when you are ready!

Thanks for all the research and trouble that you go through for us!



And, F430Addict, hands off, Stef's mine!
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post #87 of 929 Old 09-22-2012, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks very much for your support Harry

LOL
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post #88 of 929 Old 09-28-2012, 11:57 PM
 
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Hi Stef,

I've been following this thread for a while and finally registered today just so I could thank you for all the work you've done, first testing various LEDs (I learned a lot) and now designing your own.

Before I found this discussion, I bought some tower-style SMD 5050 LEDs made in China. Not really pleased with these. The quality is low, some don't fit the sockets as well as the standard bulbs and in one case a set of LEDs shorted internally and started to smoke.

When do you think they'll be ready to buy and have you decided on prices yet? I'll need four red and two amber 1157's and two amber 1156's. ... I don't own a Ferrari, but my Subaru can't wait to get some of your quality lights - the specs on your new LEDs look awesome!

Thxs again, -tom

Last edited by gvmelbrty; 09-29-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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post #89 of 929 Old 09-30-2012, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Tom,

Thank you very much for your post and your support! Welcome to FerrariLife

Sorry to hear your issues with some LED's but I must say that SMD LED's are absolutely not compliant with vehicules. I've been testing 5050 or 3528 strips and they burned out in no time when applying 14.5V to them. The main issue is that such LED's should be powered by a current driver. A current driver will deliver the exact current required for the LED's whatever the voltage is. And on a car, the voltage can easily fluctuate between 11V and 14.5V and even a bit higher. As these LED lights integrate a hole bunch of resisters (1 resister every 3 LEDs) which have a fixed impedance and are calculated to work at 12V only, when 14.5V is applied, the LEDs will get overpowered. They will overheat and burn out as a consequence. SMD or other cheap LED lights do not integrate current drivers as this would be the most expensive part. Worst, Ive tested some 1157 LED lights that were leaking a good 1.5V.

The other problem with SMD LEDs is that they cant deal very well with warm/hot environments. Also, their colour is not stable and will change over time and become more yellowish.

My new LEDs are going through long operation tests. This test phase is absolutely vital to make sure they are reliable in any condition. For instance, during an entire week, they will run 24h/24h at a voltage of 16V. My test equipment will record at a regular time interval different values like temperature or rated current. During the previous long duration tests, maximum temperature was very stable as well as the rated current. This means that the bulbs will not start consuming more power when they operate during a long period of time. It shows also that the heatsink and integrated current driver do their job. These LEDs must last the lifetime of the car.

I will launch mass production soon (mid oct/nov) and should have them available to sell by the end of the year. I havent totally defined the sales price yet but Im pretty much sure that Ill be able to keep the unit sales price under 20$, well I hope so

Ill continue to update here Thanks again Tom
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post #90 of 929 Old 10-01-2012, 07:45 PM
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Whats my queue number buddy?

LOL.....
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post #91 of 929 Old 10-03-2012, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 430Addict View Post
Whats my queue number buddy?

LOL.....
LOL, Christmas will be soon
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post #92 of 929 Old 10-03-2012, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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Tom, just a question: what are the 4x1157 Red, 2x1157 Amber and 2x1156 Amber used for on your Subaru?
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post #93 of 929 Old 10-04-2012, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 430Addict View Post
Whats my queue number buddy?

LOL.....
After mine Addict!

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post #94 of 929 Old 10-05-2012, 04:51 AM
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Count me in too.
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post #95 of 929 Old 10-13-2012, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Bench test results

As I described before, the pilot LED bulbs have
been through severe bench tests. One of these tests are temperature related and
while temperatures are increasing, we want to check the stability of the current
driver. This first series of test were made with an ambient temperature of
19.4C (66.9F). The graphs represent the results obtained when powering 2 Super
High Power LEDs (SHP) simultaneously. Even at higher temperatures and longer
operation times, the rated current has been very stable with a maximum variation
of +20mA and -5mA.

420 Seconds detailed Test (7 minutes)
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15 Minutes Test
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145 Minutes Test (2 hours 25)
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Last edited by StefVan; 10-13-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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post #96 of 929 Old 10-13-2012, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Oven Bench Test Results

Now, we made these bench tests in an oven heated at 64.5C (147.9F). This is typically a very severe and extreme condition test where we want to make sure the SHP LED bulb will be able to endure the heat. We all know that engine bays will run at a much higher temperature than the outside temperature. Even if the tail lights are protected from direct engine bay or exhaust heat, temperatures will still be quite higher than ambient temperatures. I wanted also to make sure that such LED bulbs can be used in very warm countries or regions. Despite the high ambient temperature of 64.5C, the LED bulbs have been 100% reliable giving a stable light. The heat sink and electronics were able to cope with their own heat of maximum 91.8C (197.2F) reached after being continuously powered during 1 hour!

360 Seconds detailed Test (6 minutes)
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15 Minutes Test
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60 Minutes Test
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post #97 of 929 Old 10-13-2012, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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The new pilot LED bulbs has been totally successful through all the bench tests made as well as during several hours real driving tests. None of them failed and none of their initial characteristics have changed over time. It’s now a GO for a production The first produced LED bulbs will be the 1157 BAY15D Red and 1156 BA15S White.
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post #98 of 929 Old 10-13-2012, 01:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StefVan View Post
Tom, just a question: what are the 4x1157 Red, 2x1157 Amber and 2x1156 Amber used for on your Subaru?
Sorry for the delayed response ... was on vacation ... The four red 1157's are for the rear parking/brake lights. The two amber 1157's are for the front parking/turn signals. The two amber 1156's are for the rear turn signals. All of these are 30 SMD 5050 LEDs. (Keep in mind this is for a 1997 Subaru. 2013 Subaru's probably use different lights.)

FYI, in case someone reading this doesn't know, SMD = surface mount device, "5050" refers to the size of the LEDs and 30 is the number of LEDs on the bulb. The 5050's are brighter than the smaller LEDs. Don't make the same mistake I did thinking that more of the little ones would be brighter (they're not). AND don't get all white thinking they'll be brighter. It's better to get the same color LED as the lens it will go behind, ie, red LED for red brake lens. Stef's tests proved this.

As I said before, one set got super hot and started smoking, another one, currently in use, the turn signal only works sometimes (I'll probably get a ticket because of that one). And most importantly, all of these are NOT as bright as the original bulbs and are harder to see in the daylight. Because of this and general reliability issues, I'm considering going back to the original bulbs. It's been frustrating. If anyone is considering going the china/ebay route, yes you'll save money, but I would suggest you wait for Stef's LEDs. The money saved has not been worth the hassle.

The two rear reverse lights are 1156's as well. I recently installed these 7w LEDs. They're not too bad, just slightly better than the stock bulbs. But I have no idea how hot they are getting while in use, which luckily is usually less than a minute or two. I'm wondering if your new white LEDs might work for this application, where most of the light needs to be directed straight back?

Other LEDs I'm using are to replace 168/194 bulbs: two whites for the license plate, two reds for the side markers, and one white each for the glove box and rear cargo area. For these I chose 5 SMD 5050 LEDs. In all cases these 168/194 replacements are larger than the bulbs they replace and just barely fit. These do a fairly good job, but I would prefer a warm-white tint vs. the cool/blue white these are.

I have yet to find LEDs bright enough to replace the 168 bulbs used in the front dome light and map lights. I've tried several.

-tom

PS: Congratulations on the results of your heat tests. Very impressive design.

Last edited by gvmelbrty; 10-13-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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post #99 of 929 Old 10-14-2012, 05:27 AM
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Wow!

This is a very exhausting and thorough test Stef!
Extremely important was the engine bay simulation and it is proven beyond doubt that your bulbs are bullet proof!

This is what we all love about you!
Your attention to detail and meticulous approach!

Can't wait for the day you release them on the market!
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post #100 of 929 Old 10-14-2012, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks very much Harry . I believe we tried everything to break them but didn't succeed Even applying voltage spikes didn't break the integrated current driver grace to the small little coils. They will work at any voltage between 12V and 24V.

BTW, the new wire harness for the full tail light kit that integrates also some electronic components (electronic switch between fog and stop lights) have been put under a severe temperature stress of 180C! All components, including the AMP connectors, seals, connector boots, wires (I use only wires having a specific high temp isolator much better than the stock wires), wire shields and electronics didn't suffer from the extreme heat Another example are the resistors. I use only cement ceramic wirewound resistors. They can resist against an internal heat of well above 250C. They are just indestructible and will last forever
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