360 Engine Damage - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 63 Old 11-25-2011, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
 
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Engine Damage

I rented a Ferrari F360 F1 last month in Florida. They are accusing me of
damaging the engine.
What does a driver have to do to damage an engine ? I only drove it for 60
miles, mostly in town ( low speed ).
I read on the internet that the engine and / or the gearbox have rev
limiter. If this is true, what can someone who rents this car do to damage
the car ?
If the car is protected from over rev, then it is a mechanical rev limiter
that has failed ? ( if it did over rev ever )
For example, when a car like this goes to a track day, what usually
happens ? I'm just curious, I did not go to a track.
The car has over 28,000 miles on it.
Is there anything in my defense that you can say to help me ? I am sure I
didn't force the engine.
I need some literature on it ( mechanical specs, ... ).
All they say is that I overreved the engine ( I did not do that ), causing serious damage.
I just rented the car and drove it for 60 miles.
I am not responsible for maintaince.
My point is that I cannot overrev tha car because it has a rev limiter.
Can you give some technical specs, like a copy of the official Ferrari manual page about the rev limiter ?
If I have something that says that I couldn't have overreved the car I think they will stop accusing me.

Thank you very much.

Please, help.
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post #2 of 63 Old 11-25-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmarlosbm View Post
I rented a Ferrari F360 F1 last month in Florida. They are accusing me of
damaging the engine.
What does a driver have to do to damage an engine ? I only drove it for 60
miles, mostly in town ( low speed ).
I read on the internet that the engine and / or the gearbox have rev
limiter. If this is true, what can someone who rents this car do to damage
the car ?
If the car is protected from over rev, then it is a mechanical rev limiter
that has failed ? ( if it did over rev ever )
For example, when a car like this goes to a track day, what usually
happens ? I'm just curious, I did not go to a track.
The car has over 28,000 miles on it.
Is there anything in my defense that you can say to help me ? I am sure I
didn't force the engine.
I need some literature on it ( mechanical specs, ... ).
All they say is that I overreved the engine ( I did not do that ), causing serious damage.
I just rented the car and drove it for 60 miles.
I am not responsible for maintaince.
My point is that I cannot overrev tha car because it has a rev limiter.
Can you give some technical specs, like a copy of the official Ferrari manual page about the rev limiter ?
If I have something that says that I couldn't have overreved the car I think they will stop accusing me.

Thank you very much.

Please, help.
I know this is not the answer you asked for, but seriously, what does your rental agreement say? Read all the fine print regarding what you are liable for as the renter. Also what kind of paperwork did they give you or what did you sign when you returned the vehicle?

None of the technical specifications about the car that you find on the internet are really going to make a difference in your situation. The rental agreement is what matters, especially if you end up in court against the rental agency. Let us know what you find out after reviewing your agreement, and good luck.

1997 F355 Berlinetta, Rosso Barchetta

Last edited by m5guy; 11-25-2011 at 04:57 PM.
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post #3 of 63 Old 11-25-2011, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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I did not crash the car. The car was running normal, just sometimes had a different metallic noise. I could not imagine that I could be blamed for the damage ( which I do not know what it is ). They said that I overreved. How can I overrev if the car has a rev limiter ?
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post #4 of 63 Old 11-25-2011, 05:35 PM
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tell them to pound sand. i imagine they got a big deposit from you? could be a problem getting it back.



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post #5 of 63 Old 11-25-2011, 05:40 PM
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It's BS - they rent Ferrari's and charge accordingly.

Even in their best case scenario in court - tie goes to the runner - which is you.

If you used a credit cards I would stop payment and claim they ruined the experience which is 99% of what you were paying for.
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post #6 of 63 Old 11-25-2011, 05:56 PM
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Dr- If the car had an F1 system, the car has a fuel cut-off for rev limiting on upshifts and electronic limiting (no downshift possible if it would over-rev the engine) on downshifts. If it was a manual shifter, it could be over-revved on downshifts.

Go to ferraridatabase.com and you will find owner's manuals and workshop manuals for the 360.

Taz
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post #7 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmarlosbm View Post
I rented a Ferrari F360 F1 last month in Florida. They are accusing me of
damaging the engine.
It's good you posted your question here as I advised you. At least you got some answers Would have appreciated a little Thank you though...

What do you mean by "being accused"? Did they start sending you letters? Did you get in contact with their lawyer? Did they should evidence of overreving the engine? How serious is this accusation?
What do they mean by "damaging" the engine? How the engine has been damaged? Is there evidence of the damage?

Those are the questions you have to ask them. Challenge them back. They have to prove with concrete evidence their accusations. It's not up to you to prove anything If you go yourself into a technical justification game, you'll lose...

Maybe where you haven't played clever enough, is when you heard the abnormal engine noise, because you didn't report them anything immediately.
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post #8 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 02:45 AM
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Stef my thinking is that for a non F car owner to define the mechanical noises from an F car is at best challenging ........
The OP may not own an F car so may not know what to expect in terms of normal.

To the OP the fact that the car runs on an electronic rev limiter means little as motor damage can occur purely by free revving the car in Neutral, although it would take an animal to sit and free rev the car untill it breaks.

As Ed proposed best you tell them to go and pound sand.

......I love being an armchair lawyer
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post #9 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Engine damage

The car is F1.
I'm an ophthalmologist. Just wanted to drive my dream car.
I booked a F430 F1 spyder for only one day ( I was attending a medical convention ), but on the day of the rent, they told me the car was broken and they sent me a F360 F1 spyder. The car has over 28,000 miles on it.
I know I did not overrev it. I think it must be mechanical failure or maintaince problems.
The agreement was that I would leave the car back at the hotel for them to pick it up, because I had to leave early and they could not be at the hotel until later. I recorded the engine metallic sound, which was not present all the time.
The car did not lose power, just had that noise sometimes. Can I post it here?
They are accusing me of being responsible of the serious damage to the engine, but they did not send me any kind of proof, and did not say what damage the engine had.
The charged me over US$20,000.00 to my credit card. I am contesting the charges, but they asked 90 days to analyze it.
So I have to send as much information as I can to the credit card administrator. I am downloading the workshop manuals, but I would like to have a statement from a certified Ferrari service shop or dealer that says that the Ferrari F360 F1 has a rev limiter.

Thank you.
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post #10 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 03:30 AM
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Sounds like a sleezy operation. I understand your concern, but as others suggested, seems like they are trying to rip you off by accusing you. Maybe they think you were easy to bully. Jimmy
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post #11 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmarlosbm View Post
The charged me over US$20,000.00 to my credit card. I am contesting the charges, but they asked 90 days to analyze it.
20.000$ ! Oufff! I really would advise you to take a lawyer. They just can't charge you like this and put all responsabilities on your shoulders. They have to take such risks, not you.

Sure, you can post the noise you've recorded. Maybe the noise will ring us a bell.

Like Jimmy said, they are trying to rip you off. Don't stay alone in such situation and ask for legal help.
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post #12 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 07:18 AM
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Sounds like total BS to me. How can they prove the damage was not caused by a previous renter?

Lane

Previous owner of 348ts SS #64, Now Ferrariless
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post #13 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 08:56 AM
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most importantly, what does the contract you signed say? You were right to immediately dispute the charge. You will probably win that. You do have to start with reading the contract. Who did you leave the keys with and how long was it out of your possession before they picked it up? Most importantly, say or write nothing to them. Please don't post any information that can be used against you. like engine sounds you recorded. remember, you did not record anything. This should be pretty easy to dispute with your cc company. There is absolutely no way for them to prove you did anything (except maybe the ecu?) either way, i can't imagine you could be held responsible for an internal engine problem. good luck. pain in the ass. They have to prove to the cc company that you broke something. you don't have to prove anything.



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post #14 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 10:15 AM
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When I get back tonight, I will dig up the reference on the fuel cut-off. You cannot over-rev the engine, even in neutral, and even if you could, the engine would survive 9000 rpm for short periods with no problems.

Sounds like you were the victim of a classic bait and switch. The 360 had a problem and they pawned it off on you with the intention of sticking you with the bill. That is fraud and might be worth a call to the local DA. Plus the unauthorized charge on your credit card is illegal. Attack mode is the best bet. Demand copies of the service records. If the car was not maintained by the book (schedule in the owners manual), they are further screwed.

Taz
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Last edited by tazandjan; 11-26-2011 at 10:22 AM.
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post #15 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 11:26 AM
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At this point it is pretty obvious they are trying to screw you. Don't even talk to them, it will be at best, counterproductive.

Dispute the charges with the credit card company and turn the matter over to your lawyer.
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post #16 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 08:32 PM
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you are not a Ferrari owner or Ferrari expert or have any mechanical knowledge... DO NOT admit to knowing anything about cars or make any diagnosis of any kind, regardless of how small, lack of knowledge is your friend in this case... no need to gather any information of any kind about the car ( it will hurt you )... ( you cannot possibly assimulate enough knowledge to to make any kind of a favorable argument )

You can say what you know... you returned it in the same condition you received it, it was running the same as when you picked it up ( that's your story, stick to it )... the rental company made the choice of letting someone else (third party) take custody of the car vs returning the car directly to them... third party could have done anything in the parking lot / garage and not put amy miles on the car... rental company assumes the risk by not being there when the car is returned

Make sure you follow credit card company's instuctions for filing claim / dispute... there is a time limit. ( let the card company get the technical info about the car or anything else, all they need from you is your dispute, you are NOT an expert... )

Speak to your insurance agent to see if you have coverage that would cover rental cars and / or claims made against you ( umbrella coverage )

Retain a lawyer, you want someone else to do the talking... you want someone more knowledgable about contracts... consider entering a counterclaim to recover any expenses

there are several issues going on here with several parties that have claims against you... do you pay... will the credit card company step up and pay as a benefit of using them / their coverage... will your insurance cover you... are you being scammed... can a countersuit recover any of your expenses in defending yourself against false claims...

don't go it alone

Last edited by fromage; 11-26-2011 at 08:44 PM. Reason: correction
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post #17 of 63 Old 11-26-2011, 08:41 PM
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Dr- You are probably getting good advice on how to handle this. Let me know if you still want the rev limiter info, but sounds like you do not need it.

Taz
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post #18 of 63 Old 11-28-2011, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Engine damage

The credit card companies are investigating the case. I am more relaxed now.
If I have an update, I will post it.
Thank you very, very much.
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post #19 of 63 Old 11-28-2011, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by drmarlosbm View Post
The credit card companies are investigating the case. I am more relaxed now.
If I have an update, I will post it.
Thank you very, very much.
No one here likes to see a guy get the shaft - especially when it comes to a Ferrari experience.

Hope it all works out and the experience doesn't deter you from becoming a owner one day.
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post #20 of 63 Old 11-29-2011, 07:48 AM
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Timebelt

From my experience with 360 and the milliage on the car you rented it seem that the damage most likely happen from the timebelt which could not be blamed to 60 mile of driving but to their bad service recored.

I would advise you to file a case aganist them for fraud and claim good money from them (enogh to buy your own ferrari 430)

Good luck and keep us informed.
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