360 360 CF air boxes - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 37 Old 10-12-2011, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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360 CF air boxes

I thought I would share my recent experiences with purchasing some CF air boxes for my 360 spider from R-Tuned as I could not find any reference to them on this site.

I purchased the boxes through there E-bay site where they use the alias of Carbon super kid. Who thought this would be a winner of a company name should be given a talking to . I know that it is common for companies to use an alias for their E-Bay site so I did not have a problem with this and they clearly display their other brand name on the product pictures.

The boxes themselves are of a high standard with straight weave and a brilliant gloss finish. They are a composite of fiber glass with CF but the effect is exactly the same as entire CF and the weight difference is negligible while maintaining strength.

The fit is perfect and the red silicon connector is a nice touch.

These boxes are without doubt the best value on the market and would be competitive at the exorbitant prices quoted for boxes by most other after market manufacturer.

The only problem I had with R-Tuned was that they shipped the boxes to the US apparently someone in their office thinks Austalia and Arizona are the same place. Richard from R-Tuned was very helpful in sorting this shipping issue out promptly and made a generous compensation offer - the sign of a team interested in their reputation and planning to be arround for the long hall.

I took a lot of pics of the boxes before and after install and will send them to you if you PM me.

Cheers
Roadkill
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Last edited by roadkill; 10-14-2011 at 05:01 PM. Reason: to add pictures
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post #2 of 37 Old 10-12-2011, 09:44 PM
 
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Rtuned Carbon Fiber

Thanks for the update on those. Richard has been very nice to work with. He just set me up as a dealer. I am currently waiting for my stock order to come in. I will update my website with there products just as soon as they arrive. I would be happy to work out some aggressive pricing for Ferrari Life members.

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post #3 of 37 Old 10-13-2011, 07:42 AM
 
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Do you have their #?
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post #4 of 37 Old 10-13-2011, 09:39 AM
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Randall- How about posting some photos here? Now that Exotic is a dealer, you are covered.

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post #5 of 37 Old 10-30-2011, 06:19 PM
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Actually, I just put them in my car as well and I bought them from Ryan. Question: Anyone think the rough inside caused from the fiberglass base could do anything significant to the airflow in the box?
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post #6 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 02:22 AM
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I think the inside of these R-Tuned items looks an absolute mess. Here's the inside of mine (I don't know who made them as I bought them second hand).
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post #7 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 05:45 AM
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That does not seem out of the ordinary. With layered sheets of fiber cloth, you'll usually only get one side smooth and shiny. To make both sides smooth would be very expensive.

And the rough surface will not effect performance one iota. The airmass travelling through the boxes is turbulent throughout, smooth sides won't change that.

I think they're a nice touch.
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post #8 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 05:56 AM
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And the rough surface will not effect performance one iota. The airmass travelling through the boxes is turbulent throughout, smooth sides won't change that.
I thought as much but had nothing to compare them to other than my original metal boxes. Would love to see the bottom of an OEM CF box.
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post #9 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 08:21 AM
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Looks good though. Only way to find out if the roughness causes any performance loss would be to dyno the 360. Doubt you'll find anything though.
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post #10 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exotic Auto Recycling View Post
Thanks for the update on those. Richard has been very nice to work with. He just set me up as a dealer. I am currently waiting for my stock order to come in. I will update my website with there products just as soon as they arrive. I would be happy to work out some aggressive pricing for Ferrari Life members.
A few months back I ordered these airboxes from Rich. He was great to work with and gave me a great price too. I recently saw he had a dealer in the USA coming and was wondering who it was. Congrats
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post #11 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 10:08 AM
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pics of my attached airboxes. They looked and sound great when combined with BMC air filters! I talked to my tuner and he said the inside being rough or smooth doesn't mean squat, as airboxes don't really add any power. Any gains were going to come from the bmc filters.
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post #12 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 10:55 AM
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The differences between stock airboxes and CF airboxes is insignificant and on a Dyno, you won't see any differences I'm afraid. As for the rough inside, there will be no mesurable difference in airflow neither. Although, I would be a bit more worried about the unprotected fiber glass as very tiny and invisible particles can get sucked in the intake manifold. This can affect the MAF but may go also through the intake valves. It's difficult to judge from your photos but I would double check this.

Otherwise, for the look, it does look very nice
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post #13 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 07:37 PM
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Although, I would be a bit more worried about the unprotected fiber glass as very tiny and invisible particles can get sucked in the intake manifold. This can affect the MAF but may go also through the intake valves. It's difficult to judge from your photos but I would double check this.
Well, there you have it. Stef, you always seem to be able to find the key.
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post #14 of 37 Old 11-02-2011, 10:12 PM
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The fiberglass seems to be completly encapsulated with some sort of resin or epoxy like finish so I'm not too worried about that. Thanks for everyone's insight!
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post #15 of 37 Old 11-03-2011, 12:03 AM
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The fiberglass seems to be completly encapsulated with some sort of resin or epoxy like finish so I'm not too worried about that. Thanks for everyone's insight!
That's great, reinsured now Enjoy the baby with new "lungs"
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post #16 of 37 Old 11-06-2011, 06:59 AM
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I thought as much but had nothing to compare them to other than my original metal boxes. Would love to see the bottom of an OEM CF box.
Just saw this thread.
Attached are pictures of a CS / CF airbox and a stock airbox. While in principle I would agree that the fiberglass rough finish should not cause any significant airflow issues, there was a reference from 360Trev :


[COLOR="Blue"]" Basically Ferrari used even finer blue printing on a set of slighty higher compression ratio pistons, also polished the heads. Also fitted the larger F430/599 air flow meters, smoother flowing carbon air filter covers (the alum ones due to manufacturing reasons have some nasty restrictions at high rpm). They also remapped the engine so valve overlap on intake and exhaust (software) and took advantage of the standard fitment 360 race exhausts lower back pressure for higher power output. "

His comments could have been directed to the CS conversion, in which the use of CS /430 MAFS where used, taking advantage of all airflow enhancements.

On a stock 360, the only increased horsepower from air boxes reported is from the use of the Gruppe M air box.
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post #17 of 37 Old 11-06-2011, 11:46 AM
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It looks like the OEM covers are made from 100% carbon whereas the R-Tuned items seem to be carbon overlaid on fibreglass.
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post #18 of 37 Old 11-08-2011, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the input on this topic guys.

It seems that on a stock 360 the choice of Cf air boxes is purely cosmetic.
Having the engine on display through a glass window that attracts a lot of attention does deserve this upgrade IMHO.

The uneven finish to the inner surface of the R-Tuned box is not pretty but nobody ever sees this once installed and it is resin coated and probably no more likely to ever causes problems than the risk of delamination of the alternative layered CF inner . The rough inner surface is not going to make any difference to the already turbulent flow through an air box.

The difference that I can see is therefore in price and if you feel you must maintain genuine parts for a cosmetic change. Personally I chose to spend the difference on a ski trip with the girlfriend.
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post #19 of 37 Old 11-08-2011, 06:31 AM
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Thanks for the input on this topic guys.

It seems that on a stock 360 the choice of Cf air boxes is purely cosmetic.
Having the engine on display through a glass window that attracts a lot of attention does deserve this upgrade IMHO.

The uneven finish to the inner surface of the R-Tuned box is not pretty but nobody ever sees this once installed and it is resin coated and probably no more likely to ever causes problems than the risk of delamination of the alternative layered CF inner . The rough inner surface is not going to make any difference to the already turbulent flow through an air box.

The difference that I can see is therefore in price and if you feel you must maintain genuine parts for a cosmetic change. Personally I chose to spend the difference on a ski trip with the girlfriend.
With the cost of OEM CF boxes you can take 2 trips with the girlfriend(s), totally agree with you.
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post #20 of 37 Old 11-08-2011, 07:24 AM
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Tuning the 360...

I personally cannot get my head around the poor finish inside those air boxes. It is obviously an artifact of the wet layup of fibreglass (which seems to be the main component of these airbox covers with a 'style' overlay of 1 or possibly 2 layers of CF weave on the outside you see - substantially cheaper to make that way). Had they used even 1 more layer of CF on the inside at least they would have passed the 'visual' test even if they failed miserably on the weight test.

Anyway enough about economics, and back to the more interesting point of power improvements....

I'm looking towards some more radical ideas as I move forward. The first one is to use some of the recent changes Ferrari did on the later cars such as the Scuderia and 458 to improve performance. As well actually as some of the techniques they've kept as the preserve of the hyper cars such as the Enzo.

First up.

Lets think about the journey the air has getting into the engine.

Air intake from side of car
A big issue on the 360 is that the RHS (Right Hand Side) bodywork air intake is actually feeding a radiator to cool the gearbox oil and not contributing to ram-air for the air box at all. Actually only the LHS is feeding air into the air box! The intake is also partially blocked (airstream wise) by the huge front mirrors so the air is already turbulent when it reaches the intake. (Hence why GT and CS cars use different smaller mirrors and why Ferrari changed the design of the mirrors on the F430 to be more aerodynamic and actually push the air towards the intakes...). The side intakes sure look pretty but they aren't very large either so making a carbon insert that goes deeper would certainly help ram effects here too.

Looking at other performance models, this rhs oil cooler radiator was actually relocated on the 360 Challenge cars so cool air was ducted straight from the plexiglass rear screen which improved its performance quite a bit. On the F430 the radiator was dropped completely and both LHS and RHS provide high quantities of cool ram air from the side air intakes directly into the air box.

If the 360's radiator was relocated this then affords the opening up of the rhs air intake ducting so that 'ram air' could come from both sides of the car. (spooky enough just like on the F430 ).

The next restriction to flow on the stock 360 is not the air box itself (although that itself does suffer problems - more on that in a bit) but the Air Flow Meters. Their diameter restrict flow at high RPM to the point where pressure becomes a problem but we are getting ahead of ourselves, lets look at air box design first...

Air box design
On the GruppeM ram-air box they made several improvements over stock but its still not perfect (!). They firstly addressed and partially solved one of the problems of heat soak from the cats and exhaust backbox by using a heat shield and by adopting carbon instead of aluminum.) Since carbon as a material suffers less from heat-soak less than aluminum. They also allowed opening up of both sides so you could also get ram-air from both LHS and RHS of the car. This is how they where able to demonstrate improved power, they also enlarged the volume of the box but really that wasn't the main improvement, it was the switching to cone filters which had less restriction on flow (> 30%) compared to stock paper, again which helps primarily at high rpm. The air intake was in the end both cooler (denser = more power) and less restricted, more flow from both sides. It was a good attempt but still the location of the air box however still isn't what you'd call ideal however and the hot coolant overflow tank is also not the best place to have your air intake filters next too either.

Looking towards the Ferrari factory tuner, Michelotto they also replaced the factory air box with a Carbon version (less heat soak) but they also adjust the shape so that it sloped upwards (less volume) towards the rhs of the vehicle improving air flow towards the rh throttle body. They also relocated the hot coolant overflow tank to a different part of the engine bay away from the incoming air.

Bosch AFM (Air Flow Meters) - Restriction
Ferrari themselves on the CS solved the diameter of AFM's restriction by going to larger AFM size (very similar as to those used by the Enzo engine infact, the afm's as used on the 599 (Enzo engine de-tuned) and 430, so plenty big enough to flow air into the 360's intake when using 1 per bank). Where they held back though was at the next step the air takes...

Bosch TB (Throttle Bodies) - Restriction
That's right, the throttle bodies are also pegging the air back so that your limiting the amount of air you can get in due to their diameter.

Red Intake Chamber Cover
Ferrari replaced the cast aluminum intake chamber cover with a lighter carbon cover on the Scuderia for improved weight and better heat soak characteristics.

Some after market tuners (only one I know of makes a commercially available replacement intake cover for the red air intake, in this case, Kinetix). They adopted the same approach as Michelotto did on their intake box in that they sloped the shape upwards [as used in f1 engines], so claim some benefits to their intake ( maximum flow/distribution (thins out towards cylinders further away)). They too made their intake a little bigger by 12% and also tackled the heat soak issues thus lowering air charge (lower engine/intake heat soak vs. factory aluminum manifold) by simply ceramic coated inside of their cover for maximum heat barrier
Results on just the intake where 12-14 rwhp gain just from the intake cover. Again its a good effort but it is not a perfect design and doesn't tackle the TB issue.

More power would have been possible if the restriction on the throttle body was looked at too by fitting the F430 tb's which are larger bore diameter. The next more radical step would be to relocate the tb intakes to the SIDE of the plenum rather than the standard back position. (The Enzo uses this approach, see picture of its TB location), thus removing the air boxes from the unsavory position near the cats and hot back box.)

The air boxes would then themselves need to be fitted snugly behind suitably re-design engine drip panels. This would actually reduce heat soak too since the air intake boxes would be outside of the engine bay area closer to the intake air stream. (Its still important to retain an air box design to get the pressure pulse effect, as air is sucked out the vacuum created in the space helps air to rush in to fill it). Packaging could be harder and changing the air filters would require removal of the engine drip trays but it would enable bigger gains still than anything previously gone before.

Next up would be that we've now got much more air flowing into the engine and the TB's would need mapping on the engine computers too so at this point it would be well worth swapping out the fuel injectors which are already running at higher pressure than normal. (Ferrari run the fuel pressure higher so it allows them to fit smaller fuel injectors which help with emissions). The higher pressure gets more fuel through in the duty cycle than the injector size would first suggest (hence many people getting confused about max power they could theoretically produce...). Last time I calculated it I think the stock injectors max out at around 440hp-ish. At this point your clutch becomes the next weak link.

Exhaust, headers and cats
No point in ram air tuning and cooling air intake, adding more fuel if the exhaust becomes a major restriction so the free flow cats, headers and racing exhaust bypass are the other restrictions which move things along nicely.

Results
With cooler dedicated air boxes from enlarged side intakes, relocated new box design, improved cone filters, larger afm's, larger tb's, carbon intake with side entrance design (ceramic coated inside), larger fuel injectors, free flow cats, headers and exhaust bypass (and suitable remapping) I estimate you expect could well see 460-470bhp @ 9,500rpm rev limit, all without opening up the unit itself. Its an impressive engine Ferrari built here.

For reference Ferrari's tuner, Michelotto made an insane 550hp out of their 3.6 engine (when mapped unhampered by mandatory air restrictors required for competition). Their engines are a work of art...

Down to Earth..
Even if you don't go this extreme there are lots of 'learnings' which can be directly applied to your car without spending big $$$. Of particular note is heat shielding of the factory air box and ceramic coating the inside surface of your standard red intake covers. Both a win-win for power by significantly reducing intake temp's. People could also experiment with ram effects by adjust the volume of the stock airbox (like a ramp or wedge shape, thin at the LHS, going more wedge shaped towards the rhs). Access to a dyno is vital to verify your gains...

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