F430 Mileage Burn Rate - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 04-19-2010, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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F430 Mileage Burn Rate

I am sure this has been tossed around before but I had no luck finding an old thread. So after putting ~300 miles on my F430, I am hooked! As with the majority of owners that may garage their vehicles vs use them as a daily driver what is a "healthy" burn rate for mileage. To set the stage I picked up my 2005 F430 with 9513 on the Odometer. I think I am just at 9800 after two weeks. This comes form learning the car and taking it up to the office. The car has a new batter and new exhaust manifolds which was replaced under warranty prior to my ownership. I had it CPO'ed with service in advance and I qualified for Power warranty which I negotiated in. I plan on renewing it as many times as I can. It expires next May. Realistically, I see "driving" as first priority for the car and "investment has 2nd or 3rd on the list. I bought this to enjoy. I keep hearing that I only need to put 3000-5000 miles a year on it. I take it this is from a depreciation aspect of it vs maintenance? Fluids once a year for $1000 or so plus new tires every 6000 miles for $2000 and the occassion...uh oh....5-6K maintenance bill. I can handle it all but I am trying to figure out what from forum members that roll F430s...what is the status quo..is 5000 miles per year..."over driving" or "under driving." I know its all up to the individual but what is the median mileage out there per year? My thought is...I didn't buy it to sit in a garage and look pretty. This is handmade power at its best that wants to gallop!!!
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post #2 of 13 Old 04-19-2010, 06:27 PM
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Set the display to show trip miles only and then forget the actual mileage... That's what I've always done so I never have to worry about depreciation - I did that for my stradale over a two year period, I only checked the actual miles when I was selling the car ( nice surprise the miles were less then I guessed) I get the car serviced every 12 months and ignore the miles

Just go and enjoy, I've done on average approx 2500 miles per year in Ferrari's (5 of them) and never lost more then $10k a year which seems like a good deal considering my 2010 Range Rover probably lost $15k just for driving it out of the showroom last month..

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post #3 of 13 Old 04-19-2010, 08:37 PM
 
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Set the display to show trip miles only and then forget the actual mileage... That's what I've always done so I never have to worry about depreciation - I did that for my stradale over a two year period, I only checked the actual miles when I was selling the car ( nice surprise the miles were less then I guessed) I get the car serviced every 12 months and ignore the miles

Just go and enjoy, I've done on average approx 2500 miles per year in Ferrari's (5 of them) and never lost more then $10k a year which seems like a good deal considering my 2010 Range Rover probably lost $15k just for driving it out of the showroom last month..
Dermot, out of curiosity, could you go into more detail on the opening and closing values of your various Ferrari's you've had over the years? I'm personally interested in this topic, too, and $10k a year in depreciation is less than I would have ever imagined. When you buy used, what's the "sweet spot" for age / mileage that you've tended to purchase in?
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post #4 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 02:40 AM
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It's perfectly possible to lose more than $10k. I thought I bought my 550 at the bottom of the curve but then we got the financial crash and they've plummeted a bit more. My car was valued at 25k less than I bought it (that's 12.5k a year), and it will be another 5k drop since then. This is 180k off the sale price in 2000....

V12 Ferraris lose a lot of value, but so do V8's. As soon as the new model starts becoming available on the 2nd hand market, you will see the value of the 430 plummet.

As for the OP's question - it is only Americans that are completely obsessed by mileage. As a European, I just don't get it. What's the enjoyment of a car like this if you're terrified of taking it out on the road and putting some miles on? They're not investments - if you wanted to make money you should have bought a classic Ferrari. Even on my classic 1966 Ferrari I have put 8,000km in the past 9 months, and next week she's going on another 5,000km trip through Europe.

The signature of Jim Glickenhaus on FerrariChat says it well: "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more attractive to her next boyfriend".

So who cares what "the norm" is. Just drive it. If your car is well maintained it will sell again.

As for your cost estimate - I think it's too high. The cost for my 550, (if I convert to US units) in 20,000 miles and almost 3 years has been 1 major service of $3.5k, 1 set of tyres for $2.5k, some oil changes, one broken computer @ $2k, and that's been it. If you only last 6,000 miles with your tyres I think you're putting too much rubber on the road. Harry Metcalfe (editor of UK car magazine EVO) lasted 7,000 miles with the tyres on his 550 but he spanked it. I have easily managed those 20k miles with 1 set.


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post #5 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 04:48 AM
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mileage can tell you a lot about a car you nothing else about. frequently the case when you are looking at cars. Ferraris are extreme because of the frequent and (relatively) expensive maintenance. The truth is, everything being equal, a ferrari with 10k on the clock should have a less beaten drive train than the same one with 40k. I understand there are many factors that play into this, but you do need to have some guide posts when evaluating a car for sale. Mileage is one of the obvious ones that is hard to fake.



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post #6 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexbroPA View Post
Dermot, out of curiosity, could you go into more detail on the opening and closing values of your various Ferrari's you've had over the years? I'm personally interested in this topic, too, and $10k a year in depreciation is less than I would have ever imagined. When you buy used, what's the "sweet spot" for age / mileage that you've tended to purchase in?
Sure lets see, over the last 11 years or so:

- Silver 355B, 90k cost, 75k traded about 2 years later with an extra 8k on the clock
- 360 stick, 155 cost, traded for 150 for 360 F1 (Added about 3k to the clock)
- 360 F1, 165 cost, sold for 149 (about 18 months later)
- 360 Stradale, purchased at 170, sold for 150, Again about 2 years later with an extra 5k on the clock.
- Still got the 550 so do not know the depreciation yet.

All these prices exclude taxes, I'm afraid "Uncle Sam" gets his slice regardless :-(

Now, to be fair I am a really hard negotiator (Just ask my wife, she hates been with me when I'm buying or selling anything) so I will always walk from a deal if I don't get the price I want - So remember its not the price you buy at that's the issue, its really the price you resell at - Always be thinking of that when you are buying so that you drive the hardest bargain possible. (ie: In two years what will this car be worth and how much am I willing to loose over that period of time) Right now there are great deals to be had on Ferrari's as the market is soft, so if you are bidding on a car you should be aggressive on price (10% off asking price is my guide at the moment)

As for sweet spot, I'd avoid ultra low mileage cars unless u are a collector who does not drive the cars - I always aim for cars that have been driven at least a couple of thousand miles a year on average. That's important as it keeps the engines fresh and hopefully means that cars have fewer issues + it avoids the low mileage premium that Ferrari's tend to have. For me at least, I will quickly start adding miles to the car anyway (Prob 2-3 k per year), so there's no point of buying an ultra low mileage car and all the extra "buyers premium" that entails.

The other pearl of wisdom for what its worth is that it appears when ferrari First bring out a new model (430 for example) it tends to hold its value (Even appreciate) for the first couple of years due to limited availability/coolness factors etc: After that in years 3-4 the price falls quite fast as lots of cars are now in the market and supply exceeds demand in the second hand market. So it might make sense to buy in years 3 or 4 of a cars introduction rather then years 1 or 2 if you want a better deal (Assuming you can wait that long) That's how I bought my 360's and that probably has helped minimize depreciation.

Hope this helps

D

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Past Ferrari's owned : 355, 360 stick, 360 F1, Challenge Stradale, 550 Marenello

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Last edited by Dermot; 04-20-2010 at 09:33 AM.
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post #7 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 12:48 PM
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Dermot: How much research do you invest for some of your purchases? Spend a lot of time? Curious about two in general: 360 F1 and the 550.

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post #8 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 02:04 PM
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Dermot: How much research do you invest for some of your purchases? Spend a lot of time? Curious about two in general: 360 F1 and the 550.
Good question - If u ask my wife she will tell u I eat breath and sleep doing research. And she has a point, I absolutely love cars especially Ferrari's so my way of relaxing is reading a good Ferrari book and browsing web pages looking for the next car. So yes I spend a lot of time, and I tend to see a lot of cars before I purchase. The 360 F1 (about 5 years ago) was a good example where I looked at about 20 cars before I made the selection.. On the other hand my 550 was the exception to the rule, I actually was in the Ferrari dealership working out details on my 458 slot when I saw the 550 in the showroom and was blown away by it - It just stood out from the crowd, I bought it that day: Very unusual for me!!

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post #9 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

Thanks for all the great comments and discussion. I have definitely gained some insight into the thoughts of Ferrari owners. I really appreciate JazzyO's comments in particular. Being passionate about the brand and the car, I do view it to some degree as a pseudo-marriage to the vehicle where one exchanges a lot of cash for these beautiful "mail-order brides" called Ferrari's. I probably will realistically burn ~5,300 miles per year on my vehicle with solid maintenance after really putting a pen to it. During that time, I know I will get a lot of smiles and happiness. Likewise I won't come close to recouping the near $145K (after tax) that I paid upon purchase. In theory unless you hold on to your car forever, us Ferrari owners are simply "renting" these vehicles. How good a negotiator one is determines your "rent" with the crux being your future sale timing, mileage and condition. I think I will be lucky if I divested this vehicle for $75K at the end of say 2013 with near 35,000 miles on the clock. As hope to the recent financial crash, I did read in the Wall Street Journal the other day that with recent proposed car standards in the US, that the future production of muscle cars and low end MPG vehicles will become near impossible to get here in the US in the future or vice versa imported in. That being said, we may see a psuedo-government induced appreciation on vehicles that pre-exist any rule changes at least within the US. I wouldn't bet on it though. Thank you again for all the great discussion!
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post #10 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 03:08 PM
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Good question - If u ask my wife she will tell u I eat breath and sleep doing research. And she has a point, I absolutely love cars especially Ferrari's so my way of relaxing is reading a good Ferrari book and browsing web pages looking for the next car. So yes I spend a lot of time, and I tend to see a lot of cars before I purchase. The 360 F1 (about 5 years ago) was a good example where I looked at about 20 cars before I made the selection.. On the other hand my 550 was the exception to the rule, I actually was in the Ferrari dealership working out details on my 458 slot when I saw the 550 in the showroom and was blown away by it - It just stood out from the crowd, I bought it that day: Very unusual for me!!

Good to know. I did a lot of reading and research also. I wanted the models I have for several, well defined reasons. Want more.

Seems the 12 cylinder models for persons into basically the two seater, if you will, venue, usually either love or regret the 12's. Typically the two seaters are better kept, in they are driven more, so issues, are less. It becomes regret when the 2+2's start showing problems and they are dumped.

They seem to be a bargain now, and truly wondering on your success of buy/sell vs future sale projections, what your take on the 550 will be.
and
when you think, time wise, that is in your schedule.

why, well I love the 12's. Think they are a bargain. Based on your track record, wondering where and when you think that 550 will price.

rik

PS: I figured the 360 F1 to be more a problem in terms of costing over time, but NOT in terms of unloading to the current market buyers. IF stick, I would have expected less costs and marginal sale return.

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post #11 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 03:44 PM
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Rik

One thing I really liked about the 550's I was tracking before I purchased in oct 09 was the speed at which they were selling - faster the almost any other model - so that gave me some confidence that the demand was there and the price point had reached attractive levels for the market. I have no idea if that will change going forward but at 80-90k for a very good car (reasonable mileage, great condition/service records) it really does make an attractive option. I think most people get worried by the cost of repairs/maintenance on that wonderful v12, which is valid, but if u simply assume u will pay out on average 5k per year on the car that does not seem that expensive. I spent more then that on my Stradale in it's last year!

As for when I will part with my 550, prob when my 458 arrives so who knows about the resale, however I'd estimate 75k against 260k for the 458

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post #12 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 04:20 PM
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Rik

One thing I really liked about the 550's I was tracking before I purchased in oct 09 was the speed at which they were selling - faster the almost any other model - so that gave me some confidence that the demand was there and the price point had reached attractive levels for the market. I have no idea if that will change going forward but at 80-90k for a very good car (reasonable mileage, great condition/service records) it really does make an attractive option. I think most people get worried by the cost of repairs/maintenance on that wonderful v12, which is valid, but if u simply assume u will pay out on average 5k per year on the car that does not seem that expensive. I spent more then that on my Stradale in it's last year!
The 550, if a good one, and sounds like your might be, depending on build date, will easily hold it's value for the 458, especially since short duration and [perhaps, don't know] same dealer. Wish I were in the prowl right now...would be a nice one to pick up....2+2, like said, are seemingly more problematic, mainly due to the owners and not the car.

Quote:
As for when I will part with my 550, prob when my 458 arrives so who knows about the resale, however I'd estimate 75k against 260k for the 458
yup, that's what I'm thinking

PPS: You are in San Ramon, guessing you are sticking with your dealer for service, but do you know Brian Crall? He does my service.
r

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post #13 of 13 Old 04-20-2010, 06:25 PM
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The 550, if a good one, and sounds like your might be, depending on build date, will easily hold it's value for the 458, especially since short duration and [perhaps, don't know] same dealer. Wish I were in the prowl right now...would be a nice one to pick up....2+2, like said, are seemingly more problematic, mainly due to the owners and not the car.



yup, that's what I'm thinking

PPS: You are in San Ramon, guessing you are sticking with your dealer for service, but do you know Brian Crall? He does my service.
r
I've heard of Brian, would certainly like to connect with him if u have his details: My services are done at Ferrari of Silicon Valley where I'm now buying my cars, they are a really great team - Charlie and Jason are very cool in sales!

My 550 is hugely documented with every service detail which is one of the reasons I bought it - Its a 2000 with 16k miles so I think it will hold value ok !

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