The REAL differences between 360 and Challenge Stradale! - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 3 Old 01-09-2010, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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The REAL differences between 360 and Challenge Stradale!

Subject: CS Handling Improvements

Cannot understand why the previous thread got locked on this subject before all the true facts came out about the substantial and massive differences in handling between the Modena and the Challenge Stradale which completely outclasses its heavier brother in handling in every way.

May I draw your attention to this thread which discusses the changes in detail.

http://www.fcars.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=30151

Essentially, GCalo got it wrong, badly wrong actually. Probably not his fault, (misinformation from erroneous part numbers) but nethertheless these facts needed to be corrected so people don't believe the nonsense about the Modena and CS being 'identical' underneath which they most certainly are not.

There are indeed extensive changes on the Challenge Stradale suspension that all contribute to making the car 3.5 seconds faster around Fiorano than the Modena. They took a holistic look at every facet of the handling, from tire grip, to weight, to aerodynamic downforce, to electronic software mappings to suspension geometry. Unspurprisingly with the focus on handling rather than luxury/ride quality the car turned out as the enthusiasts choice. Its epic!


CS Specific Titanium Springs

Front
Front L Spring (Titanium & uprated) Ferrari SKU 195443
Front R Spring (Titanium & uprated) Ferrari SKU 195443
Rear
Rear L Spring (Titanium & uprated) Ferrari SKU 195444
Rear R Spring (Titanium & uprated) Ferrari SKU 195444

The ride/handling compromise
The quality of the ride and handling of the Modena is influenced by many factors including the stiffness of the chassis, the springs, dampers and rollbars. For handling the softer spring on the Modena allowed more excessive pitch and roll angles in acceleration than on the CS. The optimum stiffness for best ride quality (as used in Modena) is less than optimal for the purest handling. Hence there is evidently a compromise to be made, on the CS the bias was more towards improved handling at the expense of some ride quality.

In line with this goal of outright handling the new springs where uprated by 20% and as a result they resisted pitch and roll better than the stock Modena springs which had better ride qualities. They where made from Titanium to help reduce unsprung weight which in turn helps with performance. Ferrari engineers judged the spring rates pretty successfully since they still where still quite soft (relative to Challenge cars) so they didn't destroy the ride quality completely while driving on normal roads) but at the same time they gave a substantial and noticeable improvement in handling on fast roads.

CS Weight Reduction

Another major improvement over the Modena which actually helped ride quality was the 70g-110kg weight reduction over the typically spec'd Modena. You could ofcourse help yourself here when buying a Modena in choosing the lowest weight options by spec'ing Carbon seats (a major weight saver) as well as the optional Racing Exhaust (which became standard on the CS).

Overall this meant that in actual fact the ride quality wasn't really percieved by many as that much worse.

CS/430 Scuderia Rear Anti-rollbar

Rear
Rear Anti Rollbar (Hollow and 20% uprated) Ferrari SKU 198416

Q. Why did Ferrari engineers uprate the rear anti-roll bar?

Uprated anti-roll bars are one of the most effective ways of improving not only the handling of a car but also outright grip levels. The biggest advantage of the anti-roll bar is that you can limit roll in corners whilst still retaining suspension travel and a good ride. Uprating the anti-roll bar for a larger one increases the roll stiffness at that end of the car.

As the engineers who worked on the CS knew, as they increased the roll stiffness they also improved the weight transfer properties of the 360 greatly improving the negative handling attributes that the 360 was known for, essentially snap oversteer. They discovered that the excessive body roll on the Modena caused unfavourable geometry changes, loss of camber and caster. The stiff anti-roll bar keeps the rear wheels closer to it's optimum angles and helps reduce the tendancy for the CS to go into snap oversteer compared with the Modena.

Uprating the bar at only thre rear meant that the rear of tires could carry a higher load. This changed the handling balance to be more rear focused to increase the outright grip. For example on the Modena if you uprate the front bar only the car will reduce it's outright grip level as it already has too much front roll stiffness and not enough rear. To make the CS handle better they only needed to improve the stiffeness on the rear bar only. They already had improved front end grip anyway on the CS via aero improvements which mean that at just 62mph the front bumper is generating 22 lbs of downforce at the front of the car.

Uprated Flanbloc's

These flanbloc's keep the suspension geometry well aligned during hard cornering/braking for improved handling responsiveness. They will control the geometry so much more accurately during rapid suspension movements and they will even reduce tire wear.

The Modena uses rubber bushes which acts as that sound barrier, damping out noise and vibration. Rubber is also very very cheap. All the Challenge cars run these uprated bushes for significantly better handling.

Anti Roll bar bushes (front and rear)
Upper arm bushes (front and rear)
Lower arm bushes (front and rear)
Damper bushes (front and rear)

All the bushes where changed too to the uprated 360 Challenge items, see Challenge part numbers or contact me for more information. *Also worth mentioning that an upgrade people are now doing is going to the 430 Challenge bushes which are an improvement further still.

Uprated Tires

Front: 225/35 ZR19 up from 215/45 ZR18
Rear: 285/35 ZR19 up from 275/40 ZR18

Ferrari worked in conjunction with Pirelli to produce a tire that was more biased to the handling characterists of the CS to greatly improve its grip levels over the stock street rubber. There are ofcourse even more extreme rubber out there such as Toyo R888's but overall the Pirelli Rosso Corsa's where the best compromise for a car that was estimated by Ferrari engineers to spend 80% of its life on roads and 20% on the track.

Not only did they improve the compound stickiness they also enlarged the cross section width on both the front and rear tires a little as well as lowering the profile of the tire. Normally this would worsen the ride quality but due to the improvements in weight reduction (especially important here the unsprung weight) from the lower weight braking system (16% lighter) and the lighter springs the ride again didn't really suffer.

Uprated Damper Suspension Software

Ferrari engineers added a new dimension to the handling of the standard sach dampers (which are pretty good but they are not used on the Challenge cars) by re-writing the software. They added 'Race' to complement an updated 'Sports' map. This did away with the 'normal' map from the Modena. The Race mode for the suspension as you may expect stiffens up the responses from the dampers making the handling sharper still.

Just like for the TCU (Transmission Control Unit), its the same identical computer just with reprogrammed software on its flash chip.
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post #2 of 3 Old 01-10-2010, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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430 Scuderia/CS uprated upper/lower arm flamblocs

Ferrari Suspension Re-fresh/Service - Part Numbers
Model: Challenge Stradale/430 Scuderia - fits ALL 360's/430's

These are the parts which make the suspension upper and lower arms have much better control so the car handles much better, they replace rubber parts with uprated firmer bushes made from delrin. These fit all 360 and 430 models and where original fit on CS and 430 Scuderia and 16M (the more hardcore models) and all the 360 Challenge cars. They where not fitted by Ferrari engineers to standard models as they increase firmness and remove some of the suppleness from the cars ride quality on everyday roads. Something CS and 430 Scuderia owners don't mind for the extra improvements they give in chassis control.

The part numbers listed in this post (shown as UPRATED) allow any 360 or F430 Owner to carry out a full flamblock upgrade. While these parts are from the CS and 430 Scuderia they still fit on the the regular models (i.e. 360 Modena, 360 Spider, F430 Coupe, F430 Spider) and provide an improved handling control at the expense of some ride quality. The shocks use the same bushes part numbers as 360 Modena so aren't illustrated here.

As in previous post it is worth nothing that ball joints are the same crappy ones used on the regular models, they are a common weakness on the 360/430 suspension and reguarly fail with subsequent 'knocking' noises which results in poor handling. For an improvement over stock parts I'd recommend buying the alternative higher quality parts from Hills Engineering which fit both the front and rear suspension wishbone arms.

Front Suspension

Suspension Arms
Upper
SKU-209167 FLAMBLOC..... QTY 4 75.75 <--- uprated (as used on CS/430 Scuderia/16M/Challenge cars
SKU-203633 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 99.04 **1
Lower
SKU-209166 FLAMBLOC..... QTY 4 78.56 <--- uprated (as used on CS/430 Scuderia/16M/Challenge cars
SKU-203632 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 121.02 **2

Rear Suspension

Suspension Arms
Upper
SKU-209167 FLAMBLOC..... QTY 4 75.75 <--- uprated (as used on CS/430 Scuderia/16M/Challenge cars
SKU-203633 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 99.04 **1
Lower
SKU-209166 FLAMBLOC..... QTY 4 78.56 <--- uprated (as used on CS/430 Scuderia/16M/Challenge cars
SKU-203632 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 121.02 **2
--

**1 Hills Engineering Ferrari OEM Replacement Part
UBJ-360
Upper Ball Joint (Suitable for Front & Rear Wishborne Arm) -
360 Stainless Steel (Ferrari OEM is only plated)
SKU-203633

**2 Hills Engineering Ferrari OEM Replacement Part
LBJ-360
Lower Ball Joint (Front & Rear Wishborne Arm) -
360 - Stainless Steel (Ferrari OEM is only plated)
SKU-203632
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post #3 of 3 Old 01-10-2010, 04:34 AM Thread Starter
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Standard 360 Modena Suspension flanblocs refresh

Ferrari Suspension Re-fresh/Service - Part Numbers
Model: 360 Modena

These part numbers listed in this post allow 360 Modena owners/enthusiasts to carry out a full bush and ball joint refresh to bring their tired suspension back into spec and make the handling feel fresh again and allow them to experience much improved handling characteristics. If you don't want any harsh feeling or worsening ride quality these are the parts to fit. If you want to improve handling over stock consider the 360 Challenge or 430 Challenge parts which are fitted as stock on the Challenge Stradale/430 Scuderia. Part numbers for the uprated versions are in the previous post.

Some Modena's are now beginning to be classed as 'Classic' status by some insurers (10 years old is the entry requirement), suspension on early cars from the 1999-2004 car era will definately be feeling soggy by now you will notice a huge difference once this is done in handling control. You may also want to get the shocks and springs tested or replaced too.

It is worth nothing also that ball joints are a common weakness on the 360/430 suspension and reguarly fail with subsequent 'knocking' noises which results in poor handling. For an improvement over stock parts I'd recommend buying the alternative higher quality parts from Hills Engineering which fit both the front and rear suspension wishbone arms.

Front Suspension
Front Dampers
Upper
SKU-212948 SILENT BLOCK. QTY 2 39.42
Lower
SKU-157630 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 47.87

Suspension Arms
Upper
SKU-184610 FLANBLOC D.30 QTY 4 66.15
SKU-203633 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 99.04 **1
Lower
SKU-184609 FLANBLOC D.34 QTY 4 68.09
SKU-203632 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 121.02 **2

Rear Suspension
Rear Dampers
Upper
SKU-212948 SILENT BLOCK. QTY 2 39.42
Lower
SKU-157630 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 47.87

Suspension Arms
Upper
SKU-184610 FLANBLOC D.30 QTY 4 66.15
SKU-203633 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 99.04 **1
Lower
SKU-184609 FLANBLOC D.34 QTY 4 68.09
SKU-203632 BALL JOINT... QTY 2 121.02 **2
--

**1 Hills Engineering Ferrari OEM Replacement Part
UBJ-360
Upper Ball Joint (Suitable for Front & Rear Wishborne Arm) -
360 Stainless Steel (Ferrari OEM is only plated)
SKU-203633

**2 Hills Engineering Ferrari OEM Replacement Part
LBJ-360
Lower Ball Joint (Front & Rear Wishborne Arm) -
360 - Stainless Steel (Ferrari OEM is only plated)
SKU-203632
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