F1 Hydraulic Actuator rebuild? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 10-12-2009, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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F1 Hydraulic Actuator rebuild?

Mine is leaking. Cost of a new one is $10,800
Anybody ever had one of these refurbished rather than replaced?
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post #2 of 8 Old 11-08-2009, 09:38 AM
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They are rebuildable but you'll have to find someone skilled in doing it.

Where are you located?
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post #3 of 8 Old 01-16-2010, 10:07 AM
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Its the same pump as on Alfa Romeo's

Everyone in the trade knows that the 'F1' automated manual transmission system fitted on Ferrari's is actually used across some much more humble mainstream cars brands such as Alfa Romeo, the only difference is they re-brand their automatics as 'Selespeed'.

As an example here's a Ferrari F1 pump on ebay;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Ferrari-36...item1c0f71cacc

Selling for around $1,000 usd, quoted as fitting both Ferrari and Maserati cars.

It is a system developed by Italian electronics firm Magneti Maranelli and they used it across many mainstream car brands including Alfa, Maserati and ofcourse Ferrari. The only real differences tend to be in packaging and marketing and ofcourse the software used. Even the Transmission Control Units used across models are identical (apart from different software flashed onto the chip!).

E.g.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alfa-Romeo-156...item35a639f9bc.

This Alfa 156 Selespeed TCU costs less than $90 usd second hand as an Alfa part, the same unit with different software for the Challenge Stradale in it costs near as dammit $4000 new now from your dealer.

If your smart about it and do some research/homework you'll save yourself a tonne of money by just buying a new F1 pump, TCU, etc from an Alfa Selespeed model (yes they are identical in every way). If your handy with electronics and your TCU goes you can just swap the flash chip over (make a backup copy of the 256kbytes of software image) and you can always fix your TCU for the price of a flash chip (less than $10 usd.).

I know of many 360 F1's running around with these pumps, TCU's and other parts. They are exactly the same except for one crucial difference, they cost a fraction of the price because enthusiasts like ourselves uncover the facts.

Ferrari part share too but if it doesn't come in a Ferrari box you pay much less!

Good luck!

-T

Last edited by 360trev; 01-16-2010 at 10:55 AM.
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post #4 of 8 Old 01-27-2010, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360trev View Post
Everyone in the trade knows that the 'F1' automated manual transmission system fitted on Ferrari's is actually used across some much more humble mainstream cars brands such as Alfa Romeo, the only difference is they re-brand their automatics as 'Selespeed'.

As an example here's a Ferrari F1 pump on ebay;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Ferrari-360-430-575-Maserati-4200-F1-Gearbox-Pump_W0QQitemZ120518200012QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1c0f71cacc

Selling for around $1,000 usd, quoted as fitting both Ferrari and Maserati cars.

It is a system developed by Italian electronics firm Magneti Maranelli and they used it across many mainstream car brands including Alfa, Maserati and ofcourse Ferrari. The only real differences tend to be in packaging and marketing and ofcourse the software used. Even the Transmission Control Units used across models are identical (apart from different software flashed onto the chip!).

E.g.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alfa-Romeo-156-147-Selespeed-gearbox-ECU_W0QQitemZ230422084028QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item35a639f9bc.

This Alfa 156 Selespeed TCU costs less than $90 usd second hand as an Alfa part, the same unit with different software for the Challenge Stradale in it costs near as dammit $4000 new now from your dealer.

If your smart about it and do some research/homework you'll save yourself a tonne of money by just buying a new F1 pump, TCU, etc from an Alfa Selespeed model (yes they are identical in every way). If your handy with electronics and your TCU goes you can just swap the flash chip over (make a backup copy of the 256kbytes of software image) and you can always fix your TCU for the price of a flash chip (less than $10 usd.).

I know of many 360 F1's running around with these pumps, TCU's and other parts. They are exactly the same except for one crucial difference, they cost a fraction of the price because enthusiasts like ourselves uncover the facts.

Ferrari part share too but if it doesn't come in a Ferrari box you pay much less!

Good luck!

-T

So. Let's assume you acquire a used/other replacement part: What is the chance a dealer will flash that programming onto the part? Somehow they will cite liability, or [if lucky] no warranty at best. I could go for the latter, but guessing no qualified dealer will program or certify it unless they acquire it and you know that will be EOM full price.

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


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Past:
1990 Mondial T Cabriolet SN 86247 : Red/Tan
1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
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post #5 of 8 Old 01-27-2010, 11:53 AM
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This isn't for dealers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
So. Let's assume you acquire a used/other replacement part: What is the chance a dealer will flash that programming onto the part? Somehow they will cite liability, or [if lucky] no warranty at best. I could go for the latter, but guessing no qualified dealer will program or certify it unless they acquire it and you know that will be EOM full price.
There is not a cat in hells chance any dealer would reflash a TCU for you from another marque! This information isn't anything for the dealers to use, its for enthusiasts who are technically minded enough to do their own further research and do it themselves.

If your handy with electronics they can make a 'backup' of your software and if anything fails you can use either the replacement TCU (as spare parts) or your backup software reflashed on the used one. You can save yourself thousands.
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post #6 of 8 Old 01-27-2010, 12:33 PM
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Ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by 360trev View Post
There is not a cat in hells chance any dealer would reflash a TCU for you from another marque! This information isn't anything for the dealers to use, its for enthusiasts who are technically minded enough to do their own further research and do it themselves.

If your handy with electronics they can make a 'backup' of your software and if anything fails you can use either the replacement TCU (as spare parts) or your backup software reflashed on the used one. You can save yourself thousands.

Totally agree with all the above, so now.....

Is there a reader and possible means to backup up that program?

Have you any insight or heard of anyone. It would be great to do ANYWAY even if a shop would do the work as a means to either adjust or reprogram or just save the OEM specs.

Not sure what reader works, but would be nice to find.

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


Current:
Past:
1990 Mondial T Cabriolet SN 86247 : Red/Tan
1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
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post #7 of 8 Old 01-29-2010, 09:59 AM
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TCU Information - DIY back/restoration...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
Totally agree with all the above, so now.....

Is there a reader and possible means to backup up that program?

Have you any insight or heard of anyone. It would be great to do ANYWAY even if a shop would do the work as a means to either adjust or reprogram or just save the OEM specs.

Not sure what reader works, but would be nice to find.
Exactly what you requested;

1. Here's a supply for a new blank eeprom chip (about $4 each) ;
http://store.americanmicrosemiconduc...00ab-90si.html

2. Here's the technical datasheet for the replacement chip itself;
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf

3.Here's a flash reader capable of reading the AMD flash chip on the TCU's easily and cheaply available from ebay... (about $140 usd);
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-TOP-TOP204...item45f0af7314

Pictures illustrate where the chip is on the TCU main pcb.

Here's the information I've posted before on the subject cut and pasted below;

FAQ: How to Upgrade a TCU and backup/restore your firmware

WARNING/DISCLAIMER: Do so at your own risk. I take absolutely no responsibility for you damaging your car, tcu or anything else. This post is purely for informational/educational purposes only.

There are many reasons why you may wish to upgrade to the later Challenge Stradale transmission software for your regular Modena or even backup your original tcu software to allow you to replace it cheaply incase it fails in the future with a cheap tcu from another car as donor parts (they are the same hardware, just different software).

Furthermore the CS software improved performance of the f1 shift operation quite a bit.

Its worth noting that there are also some complelling reasons why doing this modification should be seriously considered against the possible risks. Have your eyes wide open before attemping it. You could easily damage your car, your tcu or even hurt yourself if you attempt to do it without proper electronics training/knowledge. Anti static protection should be used when dealing with any electronics equipment. Furthermore upgrading the TCU to Strad speeds could result in faster clutch wear (*its yet to be proven but its worth mentioning that the CS came with uprated driveshafts - nobody is 100% certain if that was purely to cope with launch control or not - and yes even the strads LC button can be fitted too if your handy with wiring.)

Right. The actual chip storing the 'software program' is on a flash memory AMD chip.

The exact variant is AMD AM29F200AB-90SI, for the technically minded its a 2 megabit (yes only 256 kbytes!) cmos 5.0 volt-only boot sector flash memory. They are cheap, total cost is around $4 USD to buy a single chip. (only 1 is needed for the 360).

Part No:AM29F200AB-90SI
Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD)
Temperature: min -40c | max 85c
Description: 2 megabit cmos 5.0 volt-only boot sector flash memory

Flash AMD Chip datasheet available from;
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...8/487296_1.pdf

1. You just need to take your original TCU and open it. There are 4 hex screws (T10 size) on the back case. After removing you'll need a stanley knife or something like a sharp knife to prize open the original grey glue compound.

2. Ensure your anti-static (touch ground) then carefully de-solder the flash chip, its the one on the board in the top right hand corner with a white sticker on it confirming the software checksum and flash date (I am assuming this chip is ok and hasn't been fried [lets hope something else is damaged eh?].

All you actually need from the original CS TCU for is the software thats stored on it. The rest of the TCU can be saved as a backup, you can use your original working one. Its at this point worth buying a piggyback mount for the chip so next time you don't need to solder the chip on the board, it can be unplugged/plugged at will allowing you to easily replace the software at will.

3. Next step is to read the contents of the chip, to do this you need to put it in a flash reader/writer (either scan ebay or use my link above) and then extract the 'software' contents of the original flash chip inside your broken unit.

Note: You must own and continue to own an original CS TCU in order to do this otherwise it could be considered as software theft (i.e. stealing the original CS software when you haven't paid for it!).

4. Once you've done all this your nearly there, all you need to do now is erase then write this software read on one of these 6 euro EPROM chips. Verify the checksum agaist the one on the sticker on the original chip.

5. Next step is to open your orignal 360 F1 TCU and de-solder the old chip (store this in a safe place incase you ever wish to swap the chip back over) and then re-solder the new eprom chip with the CS TCU programming on it.

6. Install the unit back in the car and then hook it up to an SD2 computer (you may need to go to a specialist Ferrari garage to borrow their SD2 or get them to set it up for you, takes them seconds) and reset the learning parameters and adjust the PIS (Point Of Initial Slip) for the clutch take up and job done.

Congratulations, your now the owner of a backed up software reprogrammed back into your original 360 F1 TCU.

Hope this helps. And no I wont provide any TCU firmware images to you or upgrade one of your old units, this is purely information purposes only.

Its also worth noting that later revisions of the TCU in the 360 had a software upgrade capability which meant you didn't need to do any of this can could upgrade via the OBD-II. Thats why some dealers can 'software' fix units without ever removing the TCU from the car.

One last note. If you do any of this swapping of TCU's you'll lose the TCU data mileage indicator parameters (its stored in the TCU!) so if your brave you can do a 'before' and 'after' to work out the hex address where the mileage is stored. This is quite easy to do.

1. As described above, read out the contents using a eprom reader.
2. replace chip and drive a few miles (you may want to fit a socket for easy/removal/fitting).
3. Remove chip again and read out the contents again.
4. Now do a binary compare to highlight the differences between the first read out and the new read out.

This will indicate the exact byte address in the binary where the mileage parameter is stored. You can do this on both TCU's (not sure if they changed the address between the CS and the original Modena, unlikely but worth checking!). This number will be in hex (base 16) so you'll need to understand how to use a hex editor and hexadecimal numbers.

5. Use hexeditor to correct mileage in your TCU and write the program back into your eprom again.

Volia, your TCU now correctly matches your dashboard and everything is back in sync again.
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post #8 of 8 Old 01-29-2010, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360trev View Post
Exactly what you requested;

1. Here's a supply for a new blank eeprom chip (about $4 each) ;
http://store.americanmicrosemiconduc...00ab-90si.html

2. Here's the technical datasheet for the replacement chip itself;
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf

3.Here's a flash reader capable of reading the AMD flash chip on the TCU's easily and cheaply available from ebay... (about $140 usd);
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-TOP-TOP2049-USB-Universal-Programmer-MCU-PIC-AVR-51_W0QQitemZ300390773524QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item45f0af7314

Pictures illustrate where the chip is on the TCU main pcb.

Here's the information I've posted before on the subject cut and pasted below;

FAQ: How to Upgrade a TCU and backup/restore your firmware

WARNING/DISCLAIMER: Do so at your own risk. I take absolutely no responsibility for you damaging your car, tcu or anything else. This post is purely for informational/educational purposes only.

There are many reasons why you may wish to upgrade to the later Challenge Stradale transmission software for your regular Modena or even backup your original tcu software to allow you to replace it cheaply incase it fails in the future with a cheap tcu from another car as donor parts (they are the same hardware, just different software).

Furthermore the CS software improved performance of the f1 shift operation quite a bit.

Its worth noting that there are also some complelling reasons why doing this modification should be seriously considered against the possible risks. Have your eyes wide open before attemping it. You could easily damage your car, your tcu or even hurt yourself if you attempt to do it without proper electronics training/knowledge. Anti static protection should be used when dealing with any electronics equipment. Furthermore upgrading the TCU to Strad speeds could result in faster clutch wear (*its yet to be proven but its worth mentioning that the CS came with uprated driveshafts - nobody is 100% certain if that was purely to cope with launch control or not - and yes even the strads LC button can be fitted too if your handy with wiring.)

Right. The actual chip storing the 'software program' is on a flash memory AMD chip.

The exact variant is AMD AM29F200AB-90SI, for the technically minded its a 2 megabit (yes only 256 kbytes!) cmos 5.0 volt-only boot sector flash memory. They are cheap, total cost is around $4 USD to buy a single chip. (only 1 is needed for the 360).

Part No:AM29F200AB-90SI
Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD)
Temperature: min -40c | max 85c
Description: 2 megabit cmos 5.0 volt-only boot sector flash memory

Flash AMD Chip datasheet available from;
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...8/487296_1.pdf

1. You just need to take your original TCU and open it. There are 4 hex screws (T10 size) on the back case. After removing you'll need a stanley knife or something like a sharp knife to prize open the original grey glue compound.

2. Ensure your anti-static (touch ground) then carefully de-solder the flash chip, its the one on the board in the top right hand corner with a white sticker on it confirming the software checksum and flash date (I am assuming this chip is ok and hasn't been fried [lets hope something else is damaged eh?].

All you actually need from the original CS TCU for is the software thats stored on it. The rest of the TCU can be saved as a backup, you can use your original working one. Its at this point worth buying a piggyback mount for the chip so next time you don't need to solder the chip on the board, it can be unplugged/plugged at will allowing you to easily replace the software at will.

3. Next step is to read the contents of the chip, to do this you need to put it in a flash reader/writer (either scan ebay or use my link above) and then extract the 'software' contents of the original flash chip inside your broken unit.

Note: You must own and continue to own an original CS TCU in order to do this otherwise it could be considered as software theft (i.e. stealing the original CS software when you haven't paid for it!).

4. Once you've done all this your nearly there, all you need to do now is erase then write this software read on one of these 6 euro EPROM chips. Verify the checksum agaist the one on the sticker on the original chip.

5. Next step is to open your orignal 360 F1 TCU and de-solder the old chip (store this in a safe place incase you ever wish to swap the chip back over) and then re-solder the new eprom chip with the CS TCU programming on it.

6. Install the unit back in the car and then hook it up to an SD2 computer (you may need to go to a specialist Ferrari garage to borrow their SD2 or get them to set it up for you, takes them seconds) and reset the learning parameters and adjust the PIS (Point Of Initial Slip) for the clutch take up and job done.

Congratulations, your now the owner of a backed up software reprogrammed back into your original 360 F1 TCU.

Hope this helps. And no I wont provide any TCU firmware images to you or upgrade one of your old units, this is purely information purposes only.

Its also worth noting that later revisions of the TCU in the 360 had a software upgrade capability which meant you didn't need to do any of this can could upgrade via the OBD-II. Thats why some dealers can 'software' fix units without ever removing the TCU from the car.

One last note. If you do any of this swapping of TCU's you'll lose the TCU data mileage indicator parameters (its stored in the TCU!) so if your brave you can do a 'before' and 'after' to work out the hex address where the mileage is stored. This is quite easy to do.

1. As described above, read out the contents using a eprom reader.
2. replace chip and drive a few miles (you may want to fit a socket for easy/removal/fitting).
3. Remove chip again and read out the contents again.
4. Now do a binary compare to highlight the differences between the first read out and the new read out.

This will indicate the exact byte address in the binary where the mileage parameter is stored. You can do this on both TCU's (not sure if they changed the address between the CS and the original Modena, unlikely but worth checking!). This number will be in hex (base 16) so you'll need to understand how to use a hex editor and hexadecimal numbers.

5. Use hexeditor to correct mileage in your TCU and write the program back into your eprom again.

Volia, your TCU now correctly matches your dashboard and everything is back in sync again.

[Burns voice] EXCELLENT -- THANKs for that. I'm going to have a lot of reading over the weekend.

Makes me want to go out and start programming again: R1 PUSH ....

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
Rik -- LAH !


Current:
Past:
1990 Mondial T Cabriolet SN 86247 : Red/Tan
1995 456 GT 2+2 SN 99987 : Roso Metalizzato [Fer 311/C] & Tan
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