FERRARI 456 glass lift device modification - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 15 Old 02-15-2019, 02:04 AM Thread Starter
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FERRARI 456 glass lift device modification

Hello friends,
My friend from Bologna Alessandro has, for some time, problems with both the glass of the doors, they do not close perfectly and they make ugly rustle, he tried more times to adjust the glass lift mechanism (a cross arms linkage) with no success... Glass is not guided in a good way by the mechanism that give a free rotation movement to the glass that prevents repeatability of close movement consequently at upper position the glass will always be in different positions ...
Also his dealer tried to adjust it but without successful ...

My friend asked me if i could go to him for see how was the problem and for found a possible solution.

Yesterday morning i went in Bologna and as soon i seen the door without panel i had the confirm that my thinking was correct, glass free rotation problem is due to the clearance in the guides, there are two guides one is bolted to the glass and another small is in the lower part of the mechanism, inside to those guides there are plastic sliding pads.
How Ferrari did this mechanism is indescribable, i think the badder blacksmith have could did better ....

The two guides are in aluminium but are clearly commercial profiles (as you can see on the following pictures), maybe of home door frames purchased in ironware....

Principal problem is the small thickness of those profiles, they have low stiffness and consequently during bolts tightening or during function they was deformed and clearance with sliding pad are increased and is variable along the sliding position.
The cross arms of the mechanism are did by simple steel plates not bended then also those parts have low stiffness...

I had an idea and now i'm working on it, my intention is to do some new more rigid parts (as a kit) to be install instead of the original parts for make a mechanism with a precise movement.

Followings the pictures of the original parts.

Fabio
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post #2 of 15 Old 02-16-2019, 09:22 AM
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Bravo Fabio!
Non posso aspettare.

Great idea, finally we will have a good solution.

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post #3 of 15 Old 02-16-2019, 01:14 PM
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Fabio- F1 Imports in FL does a mod on the mechanism which consists mostly of replacing the aluminum pivot pins with steel. You might want to make sure that is part of your kit.

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post #4 of 15 Old 02-18-2019, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Fabio- F1 Imports in FL does a mod on the mechanism which consists mostly of replacing the aluminum pivot pins with steel. You might want to make sure that is part of your kit.

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Hello Terry,

at wich pivot pins are you refering?
A or B in my picture?
Because the lift glass mechinism of the 456 of my friend have the B pivot pins in carbon steel as original equipment ....
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post #5 of 15 Old 02-18-2019, 10:39 AM
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Fabio- Do not know, but I am sure a 456 owner can tell you.

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post #6 of 15 Old 02-20-2019, 07:46 AM
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I believe it is pin A in your photo.
My 456M had the repair done and from the picture I saw, pin A was what they modified.

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post #7 of 15 Old 02-22-2019, 01:59 PM
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About six years ago under this subject I posted a pdf showing the inner workings and my fix including time and tools use. I'm currently in Asia but when I get back I will post the link to my thread.

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post #8 of 15 Old 03-01-2019, 08:38 AM
 
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456 Windows Pin

Hello all
it is part "A" on your picture. The original is a aluminium pressed fit pin which wears and becomes slightly oval thus causing the window to kick (move) forward on the top edge introducing gaps, this is as the tension is applied in the last movement to push the window into the fully raised position.
The pin "A" is removed and a steel pin is welded in place, normally some machining is required on the moving arm to ensure a circular hole rather than slightly oval, it would be difficult to sell as a kit due to the machining required.
The long aluminium channel does not have too much tension, but the short aluminium channel has a lot of tension when the window is fully up.
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-01-2019, 06:11 PM
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https://www.ferrarilife.com/#/topics/19114. As most have pointed out the pin is the problem. Another member here in Japan had a very clever fix for as well using screws on the rotation g mech. Stuck in Shanghai hope to be in SF soon to respond better. Google seems to be banned here.

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post #10 of 15 Old 03-06-2019, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sully View Post
Hello all
it is part "A" on your picture. The original is a aluminium pressed fit pin which wears and becomes slightly oval thus causing the window to kick (move) forward on the top edge introducing gaps, this is as the tension is applied in the last movement to push the window into the fully raised position.
The pin "A" is removed and a steel pin is welded in place, normally some machining is required on the moving arm to ensure a circular hole rather than slightly oval, it would be difficult to sell as a kit due to the machining required.
The long aluminium channel does not have too much tension, but the short aluminium channel has a lot of tension when the window is fully up.
Hello Steve,
ok thanks for shared me, the two mechanism that i have in working have not gaps on the pin "A", but there was a lot of clerance between the guides and the sliding pad, and the guides was bended due to the bolts thightening because original guides have very low thikness.

Yes the modification fo the pin "A" is to do with mechanism on workshop, also becasue the two arms connected by that pin have a "phase", are not aligned with the centreline of the pin.

Regards

Fabio

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post #11 of 15 Old 03-06-2019, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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Hello friends,

thanks to all for your contributions with your experiences, on the two lift mechanisms that i have in my shop the pin "A" is still ok instead there was to much clearance between guides and sliding pads that induced a rotating movement on the upper guide then in the glass.

For solve the problem i thought a modification for the guides, i did new guides in better material "Ergal 7075" and with a little bit more thickness for have more stiffness.

The resistance is depending to the material but the stiffness is depending to the "young module" of the material and for a same family material is the same, then the only way to increase the stiffness is increase the section dimensions.

The torsional stiffness of my upper guide is around 4-5 times that the original.

I hope my think was correct otherwise all my work will go on trash with the money .......

Followings two pictures of the guides as soon machined, following step will be the anodization for have better finishing and more hard surface.

I purchased some sliding pads form Eurospares as original spare parts but when arrived with my surprise they are exactly like the BMW spare parts that i purchased near my home, only the colour is different ...

The black is pad thate is installed on the car, the blue is the Ferrari spare part and the white is the BMW spare part.


Regards

Fabio
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post #12 of 15 Old 03-10-2019, 12:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiammenghi Engineering View Post
Hello Steve,
ok thanks for shared me, the two mechanism that i have in working have not gaps on the pin "A", but there was a lot of clerance between the guides and the sliding pad, and the guides was bended due to the bolts thightening because original guides have very low thikness.

Yes the modification fo the pin "A" is to do with mechanism on workshop, also becasue the two arms connected by that pin have a "phase", are not aligned with the centreline of the pin.

Regards

Fabio
Hello Fabio

You may think the part A appears solid but, but it wears to an elliptical shape on the inside. I would also suggest if replacing the the Pin "A" with a steel pin there may be some benefit in adjusting the angle slightly so the glass is angled slightly to the rear - this will allow more adjustment by sliding the short aluminium rail up and down to set the front/rear position of the glass. Also Attached is the Service Guide for replacement of the Mechanism
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post #13 of 15 Old 03-11-2019, 12:11 PM
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Finally back in country and here is the thread about that mechanism I did:
https://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/m...placement.html

PS: In that thread is an old address of a company that someone found to rebuild/fix your existing mechanisms.

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Last edited by Granucci; 03-11-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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post #14 of 15 Old 03-13-2019, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sully View Post
Hello Fabio

You may think the part A appears solid but, but it wears to an elliptical shape on the inside. I would also suggest if replacing the the Pin "A" with a steel pin there may be some benefit in adjusting the angle slightly so the glass is angled slightly to the rear - this will allow more adjustment by sliding the short aluminium rail up and down to set the front/rear position of the glass. Also Attached is the Service Guide for replacement of the Mechanism
Hello Steve,

thanks so much for shared experience and talso the Ferrari prodecure glss alignemnt procedure.
The replacing of the pin A (the original pin A is a splined pin) is a delicate thing because the two arms are connected by this pin are not aligned but have a small ancgle, obviously the new pin must to be have the same angle.
I agree with you that if the hole is oval and have more clearance the movement couldn't be correct, but thoose two mechanism of this car have very less clearance on those pins.
I will share if this job will end good way or not ..

Thnaks again

Fabio

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post #15 of 15 Old 03-13-2019, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
Finally back in country and here is the thread about that mechanism I did:
https://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/m...placement.html

PS: In that thread is an old address of a company that someone found to rebuild/fix your existing mechanisms.
Rik,

Thanks for shared me .

Fabio
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