456m Failing Smog in california - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 20 Old 06-12-2018, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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456m Failing Smog in california

i'm in process of purchasing 2002 456M 17k miles ,all record service done on time
but not passing smog..
is it common problem? per owner all parts smog related replaced .
can u register 18 yrs old car without smog in california?
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post #2 of 20 Old 06-12-2018, 04:20 PM
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Matt,

You need to post the numbers. Which ones arenít passing? Second, you should have some stored codes that may indicated whatís wrong. But to know for sure, you need to see a tech with an SD computer. Theyíll be able to tell why itís not passing and what the cure is. Could be something as simple as a new O2 sensor, or something like needing new valve guides.

If it canít pass, you canít register it in CA. Suggest you read the smog cert rules at www.dmv.ca.gov
Bottom line: California is very strict now

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post #3 of 20 Old 06-12-2018, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks again

do u know good tech in san diego area?
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post #4 of 20 Old 06-13-2018, 01:14 AM
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Steve Maxwell
Exotic Car Service
(858) 586-0513

He was recommended by another forum member.
He worked on my car once and was very helpful

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post #5 of 20 Old 06-13-2018, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smggsm View Post
i'm in process of purchasing 2002 456M 17k miles ,all record service done on time
but not passing smog..
is it common problem? per owner all parts smog related replaced .
can u register 18 yrs old car without smog in california?
A couple of warning signs here....

Quote:
Originally Posted by smggsm View Post
....Is it common problem?
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by smggsm View Post
...Per owner all parts smog related replaced .
Really? Why? So, this has been an ongoing problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smggsm View Post
i'm in process of purchasing 2002 456M 17k miles
My advice: Either walk away or have a local inspection done (prior to purchase) to determine why it won't pass smog. Personally, this sounds like an expensive accident just waiting to happen.

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post #6 of 20 Old 06-13-2018, 06:58 AM
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If I read the DMV rules correctly, it's the seller's responsibility to smog cert the car:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...vr_info#BM2522

" When a vehicle is more than four model years old, evidence of a current smog certification must be provided by a seller except when the following occurs:
A biennial smog certification was submitted to DMV within 90 days prior to the vehicle transfer date (a vehicle inspection report may be required for proof of certification)."

So I agree with Dave, if it can't pass, walk away. Better yet run.

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post #7 of 20 Old 06-13-2018, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, ill call him
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post #8 of 20 Old 06-13-2018, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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he was told its something to do with Ecu programing ,
david, thanks for the advise
what kind of expensive accident related to smog component ?
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post #9 of 20 Old 06-14-2018, 02:27 AM
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Matt,

I am FAR from an expert, but failing smog because of ECU programming does not sound right.

My 456 took a bit of work to pass smog before I bought it, but it was due to a CEL light, and unrelated to smog equipment. In the end, it was a relatively small electrical sensor and wiring problem, but still required nearly $6K to remedy.

The car youíre looking at is now 16 years old. Even with low miles itís an old car. So I urge you to read the Buyerís Guide, and thoroughly search the 456 section here and on the other site. You need to understand these cars and what youíre potentially getting into. While they are wonderful cars when sorted, and fairly reliable, they are and will be expensive. If you cannot afford the unexpected $10K repair, they are definitely not the car for you.

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post #10 of 20 Old 06-14-2018, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
Matt,

I am FAR from an expert, but failing smog because of ECU programming does not sound right.

My 456 took a bit of work to pass smog before I bought it, but it was due to a CEL light, and unrelated to smog equipment. In the end, it was a relatively small electrical sensor and wiring problem, but still required nearly $6K to remedy.

The car youíre looking at is now 16 years old. Even with low miles itís an old car. So I urge you to read the Buyerís Guide, and thoroughly search the 456 section here and on the other site. You need to understand these cars and what youíre potentially getting into. While they are wonderful cars when sorted, and fairly reliable, they are and will be expensive. If you cannot afford the unexpected $10K repair, they are definitely not the car for you.
very good point , there is something else i will find Ferrari tech with computer scanning tool
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post #11 of 20 Old 06-21-2018, 10:55 AM
 
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Passing smog test

Quote:
Originally Posted by smggsm View Post
i'm in process of purchasing 2002 456M 17k miles ,all record service done on time
but not passing smog..
is it common problem? per owner all parts smog related replaced .
can u register 18 yrs old car without smog in california?
I do not live in CA, but in WA. I failed the smog test in WA with a TR. The reason for failure was I did not get the CATS hot enough before the test. It was necessary to drive around for at least 20 minutes to warm them up and then take the test.
This is just a thought. Many think the CATS get hot instantly.

Regards
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post #12 of 20 Old 06-27-2018, 03:33 PM
 
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Patzmann's experience does not surprise me. Generally, the appropriate way to gauge a vehicle's emissions is with an engine that is at proper operating temperature both water and oil.


However, and this is a big however, is that on cold engine start-up, emissions may be higher than normal for one of the reason already offered and that is the temperature of the cat(s). With the additional introduction of ECU's, the use of these techniques became an obtainable and common place way to meet government emission standards for both a cold and hot engine.


Prior to ECU's and catalytic converters, manufactures had to add various components to a carburetor to minimize cold start emissions particularly when a choke was used to produce a richer air/fuel mixture.


I often found that a simple vacuum operated damper that modulated choke opening failed due to the aging of the rubber inside the damper. A five dollar part could cause a vehicle to fail emissions, depending on the sequence of tests that were necessary.


Moreover, the methodology of testing often varied from state to state. I have had a vehicle pass emissions in Virginia only to fail in Maryland the next day. Give me a break!
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post #13 of 20 Old 06-28-2018, 05:44 AM
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I had a GT and live in CA. All cars with SMOG devices must pass the test. Had your problem once. Drive the car for 15/30 min in spirited fashion and then test. The GT had exhaust manifold problems and sometimes the CATs burned enough to be replaced: M series did not suffer this issue. I once replaced all CATs and manifolds....VERY expensive. Find a qualified older Ferrari mech to help but you should be able to pass SMOG unless something was not sorted correctly previously. Usually garage queens see this issue. All our Ferraris were daily drivers. She had the 456 me a Mondial T. Good luck

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post #14 of 20 Old 09-06-2018, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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All 7 monitors ready now except the Secondary Air Pump.. 2 weeks driving over 1000 mile , failed smog x2 because the Secondary pump not ready
california smog require the secondary air pump..
and does not require to pass the EVAP ( But the EVAP READY in my case)..
look like this law is new past 2 years or so .. they use to allow 2 monitors..
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-06-2018, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
Matt,

I am FAR from an expert, but failing smog because of ECU programming does not sound right.

My 456 took a bit of work to pass smog before I bought it, but it was due to a CEL light, and unrelated to smog equipment. In the end, it was a relatively small electrical sensor and wiring problem, but still required nearly $6K to remedy.

The car youíre looking at is now 16 years old. Even with low miles itís an old car. So I urge you to read the Buyerís Guide, and thoroughly search the 456 section here and on the other site. You need to understand these cars and what youíre potentially getting into. While they are wonderful cars when sorted, and fairly reliable, they are and will be expensive. If you cannot afford the unexpected $10K repair, they are definitely not the car for you.
i had o2 sensor and cat lights . changed all 4 o2 sensors.. no light, the secondary pump still not ready .
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post #16 of 20 Old 09-07-2018, 10:46 AM
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Matt,

Im afraid youíre just going to have to see a tech with an SD computer.

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post #17 of 20 Old 09-08-2018, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yeh, im looking for one in north california
look like its common problem with 456m and mornello now after california changed the requirement, they use to pass .
the secondary air pump not ready .. san francisco dealer has 2 cars sitting over a year same issue . one owner spent over 10k , new air pump new CIU and still cant get the secondary pump ready ..
in the morning i hear the pump for 60 second ( jet engine noise)
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post #18 of 20 Old 09-08-2018, 12:01 PM
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SoSF did my car too, but Iím not sure what they did to make it pass. The previous owner had them do the work, the invoice doesnít specify all that was done.

You could be in for an expensive adventure. Used to be, you could get a waiver if your repair costs exceeded $1500. I donít think thatís the case anymore. Now, they only give you a 90 day reprieve to bring it into compliance.

As I stated before, the seller is responsible for providing proof of compliance at time of sale. If you waived that by accepting a non-compliant car, you may have only two options 1) pay for whatever repairs are necessary, or 2) take the car out of state.

The more details you give us, the more it sounds like Daveís comments were very prescient.

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post #19 of 20 Old 09-09-2018, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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the car purchased from out of state dealer , its originally sold in orange county when was new left california 2012,, record showed passed before ( on the old california IM rules)
the secondary pump air not ready monitor ts big issues these days in california ,, IF you do research its problems for BMW,GM,VW ETC..


Killer do u here this sound when you start your car ( in the morning only when the car cold should last 90 sec)? this not 456 but the pump exactly the same ..
1:04 t0 1:58

no engine light only pending codes p1625 always there ..

if you have obd reader can you see if all your 8 Monitors ready includes the secondary air system ?

when did you buy the car? how much the repair? no detail what they replaced?
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post #20 of 20 Old 09-09-2018, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post
A couple of warning signs here....



No


Really? Why? So, this has been an ongoing problem?



My advice: Either walk away or have a local inspection done (prior to purchase) to determine why it won't pass smog. Personally, this sounds like an expensive accident just waiting to happen.
i didn't end up buying this car , this car has exactly same problem they i'm experiencing with the car i purchased from out of state

i followed your advise i walked a way .. but end up with same problem
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