future availability of ECU's and other arcania - Ferrari Life
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old 08-17-2016, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
intrepid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,004
Garage
future availability of ECU's and other arcania

Just had lunch with a car guy good friend who is into Mercedes-Benz present and classic. Reported that he had recently been to an M-B Club gathering at which a factory rep spoke. The gist of it was that there is such rapid, profound and widespread change occurring that he - the rep - was concerned that some components, especially of the electronic variety, quickly become not only outmoded and superseded but could actually in a very few years become entirely unavailable.

If an M-B factory rep can express this concern about a huge Company with massive annual production, how much more true can it be of a really tiny Company like Ferrari, especially now that it is no longer under the 'protective' umbrella of FIAT/Chrysler?

Given that I have always considered my 575M a lifetime 'keeper' not only for me but for my kids, causes me to wonder if in a dozen years or even five or six, ECU's essential to running a 575M will be available or will these cars be rendered undrivable. Or should I buy a complete set of replacement ECU's for the car right now?

P.S. the odd thing is that Mercedes, like Ferrari, seems to be able to service such ancient and arcane models as 1930s 540K roadsters and 1950s 300SL's not to say 180 sedans and cabriolets, and Ferrari can 'Classische' a 1950s race car of which only 3 or 4 were made but, it is conjectured, may not be able to keep a 2015 car on the road in five years.

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris

Last edited by intrepid; 08-17-2016 at 01:05 PM.
intrepid is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 08-18-2016, 12:21 AM
Owner
 
550_Maranello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cesena - Italy
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by intrepid View Post
Just had lunch with a car guy good friend who is into Mercedes-Benz present and classic. Reported that he had recently been to an M-B Club gathering at which a factory rep spoke. The gist of it was that there is such rapid, profound and widespread change occurring that he - the rep - was concerned that some components, especially of the electronic variety, quickly become not only outmoded and superseded but could actually in a very few years become entirely unavailable.

If an M-B factory rep can express this concern about a huge Company with massive annual production, how much more true can it be of a really tiny Company like Ferrari, especially now that it is no longer under the 'protective' umbrella of FIAT/Chrysler?

Given that I have always considered my 575M a lifetime 'keeper' not only for me but for my kids, causes me to wonder if in a dozen years or even five or six, ECU's essential to running a 575M will be available or will these cars be rendered undrivable. Or should I buy a complete set of replacement ECU's for the car right now?

P.S. the odd thing is that Mercedes, like Ferrari, seems to be able to service such ancient and arcane models as 1930s 540K roadsters and 1950s 300SL's not to say 180 sedans and cabriolets, and Ferrari can 'Classische' a 1950s race car of which only 3 or 4 were made but, it is conjectured, may not be able to keep a 2015 car on the road in five years.
Ciao Seth,

I understand your worries ... But i hope in future, almost for the "important cars" like Ferrari, will be someone that reproduce parts.... also becasue the ECU's of Ferrari are the same of other cars ... in many cases only the software is different ...

About service such ancient and arcane models, Germany and UK car brands are able to provide spare parts but for "Ferrari Classiche" the thing is a little bit different, and not always nice ....
Ferrari Classiche use the spare parts of Ferrari stock, if this stock is empty they ask in UK (why they send in UK spare parts of cars over 10 years old ... ?? they are crazy ..!!) If UK stock is empty they search in the world a used parts, at the end they go to local artisans for reproduce parts not available, they don't manufacture inside a Ferrari! But artisans are not able to reproduce all parts, in this case is a big problem do the "Certificazione Ferrari Classiche"....
Is better that i not write what they do, or what they do not know about their cars ....... I have a sure source ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
550_Maranello is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 08-18-2016, 04:19 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
cribbj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Houston
Ferrari Life Posts: 2,197
Seth, my thoughts parallel yours, and since I'm planning on keeping my 550 "in the family" for the longterm, I think it would be wise to begin accumulating parts for them while they are still semi-available at less than stratospheric prices.

I know that whenever I see 550 parts appear on eBay, I consider whether I might need that part at some point down the road, or if it could be replaced by something more current, but then I'm not so concerned about originality as I am the proper functioning of the car.

Tops on the list would be the known failure items for the 550/575's, then gaskets, anything that moves, or has the possibility to wear out, then the electronics. Spare ECU's are high on the list for me because they have an annoying habit of giving up their smoke now & then.

German cars scare the bejesus out of me with all their ECU's. If I ever have another German car it'll either be a leased vehicle, or I'll plan to only own it through the warranty period and get rid of it soon after.

I think this is another reason why pre-OBD "analog" cars are in such high demand - mere mortals can still troubleshoot and service them. Not saying they have to be carbureted, or with points & distributors, but at least the early EFI cars didn't have an ECU for everything under the sun.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

Maranello Skunkworks Team Member
cribbj is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 Old 08-18-2016, 04:30 AM
Owner
 
550_Maranello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cesena - Italy
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
I think this is another reason why pre-OBD "analog" cars are in such high demand - mere mortals can still troubleshoot and service them. Not saying they have to be carbureted, or with points & distributors, but at least the early EFI cars didn't have an ECU for everything under the sun.
Ciao Jhon,

i understand you, but with pre-OBD "analog" cars i think that in some country daily driving is not possible ....

In this case?

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
550_Maranello is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 08-18-2016, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
Owner
 
intrepid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,004
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Ciao Seth,

I understand your worries ... But i hope in future, almost for the "important cars" like Ferrari, will be someone that reproduce parts.... also becasue the ECU's of Ferrari are the same of other cars ... in many cases only the software is different ...

About service such ancient and arcane models, Germany and UK car brands are able to provide spare parts but for "Ferrari Classiche" the thing is a little bit different, and not always nice ....
Ferrari Classiche use the spare parts of Ferrari stock, if this stock is empty they ask in UK (why they send in UK spare parts of cars over 10 years old ... ?? they are crazy ..!!) If UK stock is empty they search in the world a used parts, at the end they go to local artisans for reproduce parts not available, they don't manufacture inside a Ferrari! But artisans are not able to reproduce all parts, in this case is a big problem do the "Certificazione Ferrari Classiche"....
Is better that i not write what they do, or what they do not know about their cars ....... I have a sure source ....
Ciao Fabio!

I have heard from a friend who knows, exactly the same questions about the 'Classische' program and process that you do not say. It was conceived as.... and has become an enormous money-maker for Ferrari. It seems that to the simple, trusting owner, all that matters is that his car has the certification which justifies the expense. As long as other people also accept that the Ferrari is all 'original' as certified by the factory, all is good. .....But not in my mind.

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris
intrepid is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 08-18-2016, 05:15 AM
Owner
 
550_Maranello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cesena - Italy
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by intrepid View Post
Ciao Fabio!

I have heard from a friend who knows, exactly the same questions about the 'Classische' program and process that you do not say. It was conceived as.... and has become an enormous money-maker for Ferrari. It seems that to the simple, trusting owner, all that matters is that his car has the certification which justifies the expense. As long as other people also accept that the Ferrari is all 'original' as certified by the factory, all is good. .....But not in my mind.
Seth,

Yes is a enormous money-maker for Ferrari, unfortunately all what they do is the law, but sometimes they do exactly what would do a normal mechanic .... but they work at 125 eur per hour ......!

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
550_Maranello is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 08-20-2016, 01:58 AM
Owner
 
Bluebottle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Exeter, England
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
Tops on the list would be the known failure items for the 550/575's, then gaskets, anything that moves, or has the possibility to wear out, then the electronics. Spare ECU's are high on the list for me because they have an annoying habit of giving up their smoke now & then.
For the less technically minded / able among us, a definitive list would be useful if you had the time to put one together. I would like to think that my 550 could outlast me.

On a more positive note, maybe advances in technology will mean that it becomes easier to reproduce obsolete parts in the future. For example, I still find the miracle of 3D printing mind-boggling, so who is to say that in 10 years time we shan't be able to "scan" a worn out part into a machine and get a new one out at the other end!

Best wishes, John
Ferrari: 550 Maranello S/N 110995, Dino 246 GT S/N 6934
Other: 1990 Bentley Turbo R, 1989 Porsche 911 C2, 2004 Mercedes 500CLK, 2011 Mercedes E350 CDI, 1972 VW T2 Camper, 2014 Fiat 500C, 1963 Jaguar E-type 3.8 FHC, 2015 Maserati Granturismo Sport
Website: http://bluebottleonline.com/
Bluebottle is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 08-24-2016, 06:42 AM Thread Starter
Owner
 
intrepid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,004
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebottle View Post
For the less technically minded / able among us, a definitive list would be useful if you had the time to put one together. I would like to think that my 550 could outlast me.

On a more positive note, maybe advances in technology will mean that it becomes easier to reproduce obsolete parts in the future. For example, I still find the miracle of 3D printing mind-boggling, so who is to say that in 10 years time we shan't be able to "scan" a worn out part into a machine and get a new one out at the other end!
John, that's exactly the feedback I'm getting from friends, one of whom, a Pebble Beach Concours judge for many years, just returned from that event and said it was a subject of conversation there. He said that many predicted that at the time there was a demonstrated need, someone would come up with a commercial response. I'm feelin' a bit better.

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris
intrepid is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 08-24-2016, 11:28 AM
Owner
 
Bluebottle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Exeter, England
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by intrepid View Post
I'm feelin' a bit better.
That's good to hear, Seth.

Best wishes, John
Ferrari: 550 Maranello S/N 110995, Dino 246 GT S/N 6934
Other: 1990 Bentley Turbo R, 1989 Porsche 911 C2, 2004 Mercedes 500CLK, 2011 Mercedes E350 CDI, 1972 VW T2 Camper, 2014 Fiat 500C, 1963 Jaguar E-type 3.8 FHC, 2015 Maserati Granturismo Sport
Website: http://bluebottleonline.com/
Bluebottle is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 08-24-2016, 05:24 PM
Owner
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,320
Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe manufacturers who sell their cars in the US are required to support them for 20 years.

I believe mechanical parts will not be a problem. They may be expensive, but you'll be able to either find them or have them fabricated.

Electronics are an entirely different story. It is probably that at some point, cars with extensive computer circuitry will be un-repairable / un-restorable.

Of all the narcissists I know, I love me the most.
Killer58 is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 08-25-2016, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
intrepid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,004
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe manufacturers who sell their cars in the US are required to support them for 20 years.

I believe mechanical parts will not be a problem. They may be expensive, but you'll be able to either find them or have them fabricated.

Electronics are an entirely different story. It is probably that at some point, cars with extensive computer circuitry will be un-repairable / un-restorable.
Killer, that was exactly the point of my question. There was nothing on or in my old 412GT that could not be found or, if need be, fabricated. I feared that such was not true of the ECU's in my 575M Maranello or Maserati Spyder. Posters here are assuring us that when there is a demonstrated market some geniuses will reverse engineer any ECU.

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris
intrepid is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 08-25-2016, 06:28 PM
Owner
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,320
That may be true Seth, but I think the ECUs will be the easy stuff. Esoteric sensors and their associated control boards may be a bit harder to replicate.

Of all the narcissists I know, I love me the most.
Killer58 is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 08-25-2016, 11:06 PM
Owner
 
Bluebottle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Exeter, England
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,501
Anything is possible in this best of all possible worlds. There is no limit to human ingenuity. Where there's a will there's a way. Live for the present and the future will take care of itself.

. . . and there's a whole load more cliches where those came from

Best wishes, John
Ferrari: 550 Maranello S/N 110995, Dino 246 GT S/N 6934
Other: 1990 Bentley Turbo R, 1989 Porsche 911 C2, 2004 Mercedes 500CLK, 2011 Mercedes E350 CDI, 1972 VW T2 Camper, 2014 Fiat 500C, 1963 Jaguar E-type 3.8 FHC, 2015 Maserati Granturismo Sport
Website: http://bluebottleonline.com/
Bluebottle is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 08-26-2016, 06:29 AM
Owner
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Toronto
Ferrari Life Posts: 535
Why worry about something like this now? There are hundreds of tuners out there now working on and developing ECU's for Ferraris and other cars. I am sure in years to come there will be solutions.
Clyde
tifosi_ is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 10-14-2016, 03:32 PM
Owner
 
Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Ferrari Life Posts: 220
I agree with Clyde...
Bill is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 10-14-2016, 05:59 PM
Owner
 
Italian Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Far end of the P pond
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
I agree with Clyde...
Concur, and a sensible one.

Italian Lover
Italian Lover is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 10-15-2016, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
Owner
 
intrepid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,004
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Lover View Post
Concur, and a sensible one.
hope you are all right

Seth
575M F1, Maserati Spyder, Cadillac STS-V & CTS
past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris
intrepid is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 10-15-2016, 09:39 AM
Owner
 
Italian Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Far end of the P pond
Ferrari Life Posts: 6,738
Seth, thanks for the thoughts. I am okay. Somehow, was not in the mood to post anywhere.

Sounds like you had a wonderful summer visiting the Continent via cruise, I believe ? Way to go, in style.

w/ smiles
Jimmy

Italian Lover
Italian Lover is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 10-18-2016, 08:06 AM
 
efg2014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Ferrari Life Posts: 404
The latest edition of Sports Car Market arrived yesterday. A good article about the La Ferrari was in the magazine. The author after compliment the heck out of the La Ferrari raised the concern of replacement parts for the hybrid system which is very complex.

I can't comment on the F1 based hybrid system but definitely on the ECU as I have a software engineering with hardware background. The ECU(Engine Control Unit) consists of an microprocessor and sensors(analog to digital,digital). A good hardware engineer can reverse engineer the hardware. This is assuming the supporting computer chips are still available. If not then someone would have to look in the archives to find out what the particular computer chip did and see if there is a modern equivalent.

Next you have the firmware(software). This can get fairly involved. If the original source code is accessible then the task of getting the firmware to work on new hardware is difficult but not impossible. If the original code isn't available now you have a very difficult and expensive problem to solve.

How many of you can read the data off your 3 1/2inch floppy?

--kim

2006 Ferrari F430 Coupé,
efg2014 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale