Considering upgrading springs and anti-roll bar to FHP spec - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 23 Old 05-13-2015, 05:32 AM Thread Starter
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Considering upgrading springs and anti-roll bar to FHP spec

Hi All,

I am thinking of upgrading my 575's springs and anti-roll bar to FHP spec to help eliminate the 1 thing I am not completely happy about on my Maranello, the lean in corners and odd floatiness over bumps at highway or track speeds. I have secured a quote and have asked my mechanic to let me know how much he would charge for the install (last week, how long does it take him to let me know, is it that complicated?). It actually seems really reasonable for the springs, though the 21" anti-roll bar seems costly at $3500 (is that normal?).
Also, along with the Spring and Anti-roll bar, I was quoted for brakes for some reason, though I did not request it. My first question is, are the brakes on the FHP 575 any different than those on a regular 575 aside from the Pagid pads (which I could easily get elsewhere any time I wanted)?
Secondly, would you recommend upgrading as I am considering?
Clyde
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post #2 of 23 Old 05-13-2015, 07:04 AM
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Clyde, $3500 for a 1 meter long piece of dumb steel is just outrageous, even by Ferrari standards.

As you're aware, I was going to have these bars made, but the last shop that was recommended stiffed me and kept my sample bar, so I've been a bit discouraged about trying it again.

Rest assured, there are places out there who can make these bars for a LOT less than $3500, but it takes some digging and research to find them, and I'm just not motivated enough about this project to find them.

Would I personally do the full FHP mod? I might just because I'm a curious engineer, but I'd also keep my old parts, in case it's not to my liking. However, if I had any intention of tracking my car, I'd definitely do it, and I'd most definitely upgrade the brakes too.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #3 of 23 Old 05-13-2015, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your comments John. Yes I know from our communications that you originally had the intention of having the FHP suspension parts replicated for MSW but unfortunately had a very negative experience with a shop that kept your parts. Its really too bad you were never able to retrieve them (still?). That's really a pity as I definitely would have preferred sourcing them through you who I trust and who represents an invaluable source of upgrades and fixes for the Maranello series (I am extremely happy with the steering ECU I purchased from MSW through you).
Yes, $3500 for the sway bar ("a long piece of dumb steel" to quote you) did sound outrageous to me as well. I am wondering if there might be someone locally here in Ontario Canada (since we do have a large amount of Ferraris and other exotic auto shops) who might replicate the sway bar? I am not going to go for the sway bar at that price of course. I wonder if just upgrading the springs alone would be much of an improvement?
I did track my car last summer and really enjoyed it, and was looking forward to having more track time this summer (though other issues have temporarily gotten in the way). I do plan on getting back to the track sometime. The nice thing about the FHP package as I understand it, is that the car is still comfortable as a GT off track, but offers better on track performance. I assume that the HGTC was more track focused at the expense of street use.

Cheers
Clyde

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Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
Clyde, $3500 for a 1 meter long piece of dumb steel is just outrageous, even by Ferrari standards.

As you're aware, I was going to have these bars made, but the last shop that was recommended stiffed me and kept my sample bar, so I've been a bit discouraged about trying it again.

Rest assured, there are places out there who can make these bars for a LOT less than $3500, but it takes some digging and research to find them, and I'm just not motivated enough about this project to find them.

Would I personally do the full FHP mod? I might just because I'm a curious engineer, but I'd also keep my old parts, in case it's not to my liking. However, if I had any intention of tracking my car, I'd definitely do it, and I'd most definitely upgrade the brakes too.
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post #4 of 23 Old 05-13-2015, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
The nice thing about the FHP package as I understand it, is that the car is still comfortable as a GT off track, but offers better on track performance. I assume that the HGTC was more track focused at the expense of street use.

Cheers
Clyde
Hi Clyde,
i never drove 575 FHP but my old 550 and my HGTC, for my impression HGTC setup is lovely, when road is plane the comfort is high, only when in the road there are imperfections the body movement are hard ...
Last friday i drove for 270 km (Cesena - Modena and return) with my father in law (he have an A5 coupè 3.0 d quattro sportline with 19" rims) and he told me that my 575 is comfortable like its Audi...
However i think the suspension stiffness is a personal taste ....
I love my CLS with comfortable airmatic and HGTC with her rigid springs ....
About anti roll bar, you can try to find used .... and you need little lucky ...

How are the things at home .... i hope little bit better ....

Best .....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #5 of 23 Old 05-13-2015, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Dear Fabio,
Nice to hear from you. Thanks for your comments on the ride of the HGTC suspension, its quite interesting. I don't think its anymore possible to get the springs and sway bar for the HGTC spec though, only FHP as far as I know (I could be wrong)? I would prefer HGTC set up of course, but I don't see myself spending $20,000.00 for the carbon fiber brakes (even though I know they must be fantastic).
As to the things at home, unfortunately there is no improvement as yet in that area. With respect to my father its the type of situation that can only get worse over time, and then finally go away, as you know. There is nothing anyone can do about it. Anyway the important thing is to try to remain positive and hope for the future.
Best Wishes
Clyde

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Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi Clyde,
i never drove 575 FHP but my old 550 and my HGTC, for my impression HGTC setup is lovely, when road is plane the comfort is high, only when in the road there are imperfections the body movement are hard ...
Last friday i drove for 270 km (Cesena - Modena and return) with my father in law (he have an A5 coupè 3.0 d quattro sportline with 19" rims) and he told me that my 575 is comfortable like its Audi...
However i think the suspension stiffness is a personal taste ....
I love my CLS with comfortable airmatic and HGTC with her rigid springs ....
About anti roll bar, you can try to find used .... and you need little lucky ...

How are the things at home .... i hope little bit better ....

Best .....
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post #6 of 23 Old 05-13-2015, 04:01 PM
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Clyde, the only difference in FHP brakes as I understand is that they were usually red and the pads were unique. Taz has written many times about this and you should find the details in the technical section.
The 21mm FHP rear bar has been discontinued for a long time. What they still sell is the 19mm HGTC bar. And should you go in an order a FHP bar they will gladly do so, but it will be the 19mm piece superseded and sold as FHP.
You will enjoy those suspension improvements. As Fabio mentioned, be patient and watch for a larger used rear bar to pop up. Maybe contact some places that break down Maranello's and ask to be put on a waiting list.
Bill
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post #7 of 23 Old 05-13-2015, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Bill
Those are all great suggestions, I'll do that.
Clyde

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Originally Posted by KonaDog06 View Post
Clyde, the only difference in FHP brakes as I understand is that they were usually red and the pads were unique. Taz has written many times about this and you should find the details in the technical section.
The 21mm FHP rear bar has been discontinued for a long time. What they still sell is the 19mm HGTC bar. And should you go in an order a FHP bar they will gladly do so, but it will be the 19mm piece superseded and sold as FHP.
You will enjoy those suspension improvements. As Fabio mentioned, be patient and watch for a larger used rear bar to pop up. Maybe contact some places that break down Maranello's and ask to be put on a waiting list.
Bill
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post #8 of 23 Old 05-21-2015, 12:51 AM
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Clyde

I have just been through the upgrade process having bought ex-HGTC parts from a dismantled car in Australia. So I have the springs and dampers and rear anti-roll bar, as well as the suspension ECU. I have alsom taken advantage of the improvement ofered by John's steering ECU which works a treat. The bottom line to all of this is that the car is transformed. The handlig is much tighter although I am also pleasantly surprised at how the ride has not been compromised too much. Slightly harder and possible harsher (surface dependent) but less body roll and much sharper turn in. I can now turn in with much greater confidence. The wallowing you refer to (aka porpoising) is also very well dealt with by the revised ECU. A freind and I recently swapped cars (his 550 for my 575M) for a short drive - his observation was "transformed"! I think the only real dwonside is the suspension warning light which will not go out due to the missing steering position sensor which the later ECU demands. Other than that the car feels superb. Whilst I am sure the upgraded brakes make a difference, for the majority of us I suspect that is academic. I have tracked my car a couple of times and have been pleasantly surprised at how they cope with bringing what is after all a heavy car to a reliable stop repeatedly. Not sure I can justify spending a lot on an upgrade!

Blottom line then is go for it - you will not be disappointed1

Simon
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post #9 of 23 Old 05-21-2015, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wysri9 View Post
Clyde

The bottom line to all of this is that the car is transformed. The handlig is much tighter although I am also pleasantly surprised at how the ride has not been compromised too much. Slightly harder and possible harsher (surface dependent) but less body roll and much sharper turn in. I can now turn in with much greater confidence. The wallowing you refer to (aka porpoising) is also very well dealt with by the revised ECU.
Hi Simon,
same for me when i shifted from my old 550 to my HGTC ....

However 550 and 575 be great cars in every mode...

Do you have pictures of your 575 .... i'm curious to know another Maranello's club member ...

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #10 of 23 Old 05-21-2015, 05:23 AM
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Clyde

I have just been through the upgrade process having bought ex-HGTC parts from a dismantled car in Australia. So I have the springs and dampers and rear anti-roll bar, as well as the suspension ECU. I have alsom taken advantage of the improvement ofered by John's steering ECU which works a treat. The bottom line to all of this is that the car is transformed. The handlig is much tighter although I am also pleasantly surprised at how the ride has not been compromised too much. Slightly harder and possible harsher (surface dependent) but less body roll and much sharper turn in. I can now turn in with much greater confidence. The wallowing you refer to (aka porpoising) is also very well dealt with by the revised ECU. A freind and I recently swapped cars (his 550 for my 575M) for a short drive - his observation was "transformed"! I think the only real dwonside is the suspension warning light which will not go out due to the missing steering position sensor which the later ECU demands. Other than that the car feels superb. Whilst I am sure the upgraded brakes make a difference, for the majority of us I suspect that is academic. I have tracked my car a couple of times and have been pleasantly surprised at how they cope with bringing what is after all a heavy car to a reliable stop repeatedly. Not sure I can justify spending a lot on an upgrade!

Blottom line then is go for it - you will not be disappointed1

Simon
Simon you got a great deal when you purchased those pieces down under. I so wanted to grab those dampers and springs but had already over spent on the brakes from that car. Happy you have them installed and enjoyed your post. Do those dampers need that particular ECU to function properly?
Was just wondering whether they would operate with a similar FHP type suspension ECU avoiding the light on the dash? As a side note, we've determined that the difference between the HGTC springs and the FHP springs is minimal, the differences in the dampers have yet to be discovered.
I attached a saved pic of your springs and dampers taken from that auction.
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post #11 of 23 Old 05-21-2015, 12:35 PM
 
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Will that suspension warning light cause you any concern come MOT time?

P.S. I'm originally from Aberdeenshire myself so will keep an eye out if you post any more pictures from your recent Highland outing.
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 01:13 AM
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MOT response and Pic

MOT just renewed after fitting springs and dampers so the answer is no!

Recent pic from this weekends trip to Dornach and Ullapool.

Simon
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post #13 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 03:37 AM
 
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Very good. Some great open sections on the A835 Inverness>Ullapool.

Some Scottish roads were featured in EVO in the past year in case you missed it.

Old Military Road, Scotland: Ultimate Driving Destinations | Evo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkAT82-R0S8
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post #14 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Simon,

Thanks for your feedback and it sounds great. Presently I am trying to determine if I can get the FHP (actually they ship the HGTC narrower 19" instead of the 21" these days apparently) sway bar at a lower price than the $3500 I was quoted, which sounds a bit outrageous for a static piece of metal (not to mention the separate assembly kit required to install it).

Clyde

Quote:
Originally Posted by wysri9 View Post
Clyde

I have just been through the upgrade process having bought ex-HGTC parts from a dismantled car in Australia. So I have the springs and dampers and rear anti-roll bar, as well as the suspension ECU. I have alsom taken advantage of the improvement ofered by John's steering ECU which works a treat. The bottom line to all of this is that the car is transformed. The handlig is much tighter although I am also pleasantly surprised at how the ride has not been compromised too much. Slightly harder and possible harsher (surface dependent) but less body roll and much sharper turn in. I can now turn in with much greater confidence. The wallowing you refer to (aka porpoising) is also very well dealt with by the revised ECU. A freind and I recently swapped cars (his 550 for my 575M) for a short drive - his observation was "transformed"! I think the only real dwonside is the suspension warning light which will not go out due to the missing steering position sensor which the later ECU demands. Other than that the car feels superb. Whilst I am sure the upgraded brakes make a difference, for the majority of us I suspect that is academic. I have tracked my car a couple of times and have been pleasantly surprised at how they cope with bringing what is after all a heavy car to a reliable stop repeatedly. Not sure I can justify spending a lot on an upgrade!

Blottom line then is go for it - you will not be disappointed1

Simon
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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Beautiful Tour de France blue 575 Simon, Congrats!
Clyde

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MOT just renewed after fitting springs and dampers so the answer is no!

Recent pic from this weekends trip to Dornach and Ullapool.

Simon
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post #16 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 05:54 AM
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Indeed we spotted that - familiar haunts I am pleased to say. Came over the Lecht yesterday and saw no other car for miles
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post #17 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 05:58 AM
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Actually Clyde she is Azzurro California - she can look very different in different lights though so I'll let you off!
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post #18 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 06:18 AM Thread Starter
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Either way she is really beautiful Simon,
This is actually the first time I have heard of the colour Azzuro California, it seems to be a more unique shade of blue according to your description, but definitely a beautiful one. My 575 is in Argento Nurburgring.
Clyde

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Actually Clyde she is Azzurro California - she can look very different in different lights though so I'll let you off!
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post #19 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 07:48 AM
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Either way she is really beautiful Simon,
This is actually the first time I have heard of the colour Azzuro California, it seems to be a more unique shade of blue according to your description, but definitely a beautiful one. My 575 is in Argento Nurburgring. Clyde
Clyde, you've likely seen this before; here's my 'blu TdF' 575M
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past: 330/365GTC speciale, F355b, 412GT, 400iA, 308GT4 2+2, 330GT 2+2, Porsche 356b Super 90, BMW 1800ti

what do I know? I drive blue Ferraris
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post #20 of 23 Old 05-25-2015, 11:11 PM
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Here's a picture which shows the true colour better - good contrast to Seth's lovely TdF Blue!
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