612 issue with shifting gears - Page 2 - Ferrari Life
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post #21 of 41 Old 05-13-2015, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Clyde- Yup, that is the shop where Serkan works.

Josh- Have you upgraded any 360s or V12s with the later style F1 pump?
Thanks Terry
Clyde
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post #22 of 41 Old 05-13-2015, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Josh- Have you upgraded any 360s or V12s with the later style F1 pump?

I haven't. The upgraded pump costs nearly 3 times the original pump and I believe that if the F1 system is maintained properly, the pump lasts many years. The Lamborghini LP560 uses the same pump motor, just with a different drive design and I've still replaced a couple of those due to improper system maintenance. So, I find little value in spending the extra money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p1turbo View Post
my '04 575 has shifting issues going from 2nd to 3rd…would go into N….then 6th…then paddles would allow shifting.

clutch had about 35k miles on it/read at 22% worn

mechanic checked codes (general f1 system malfunction)/f1 system troubleshooted (no leaks/pressure ok etc)

replaced a potentiometer….no problems since…$2700

40k miles on clutch now…:-)…car has 62K

A very worn clutch can cause the random Neutral selection also, as will faulty potentiometers. Unfortunately, in my experience, replacing the switches only rarely yields a positive result. More often the issue is within the actuator internals.


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post #23 of 41 Old 05-18-2015, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Appreciate all the input. So the only code showing was that the reverse "T" lever was malfunctioning, it was misreading as being in reverse and vice versa whil car was in the opposite.

That's been replaced, the f1 fluids flushed and replaced. The tech took the car out in extensive drives and has not been able to repeat the issue where 4th gear does not engage.

I'm still a bit skeptical as this was a random occurrence. There's a few minor things left such as replacing the kaiser valves (leak) and I should have her back by weeks end.

She's a daily driver for me, so I'm sure if there is a problem with the actuator or something else I'll notice it after done driving.

Fingers crossed!!

Izzy
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post #24 of 41 Old 05-19-2015, 07:16 AM
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The TCU will default to "Neutral" as a safety measure when things are wonky. I find it odd that it only happened when selecting 4th gear though. That is a bit specific for me to believe it's all in the "T" handle assembly. As you said, we should know soon enough though.


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post #25 of 41 Old 05-24-2015, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Should have her back this week, typically when it does happen it's during downshifting, but has been totally random. Will report back once I drive it for sometime.
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post #26 of 41 Old 06-03-2015, 10:46 PM
 
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It may be a loose actuator bleed screw (common) rather than a failing actuator. However, If they drive the car and look at the live parameters on the SD3 whilst selecting the effected gears, spikes of pressured drop that are higher than the non-effected gears will indicate internal leakage of the actuator. Because the leakage is internal, the pressure switch on the valve block doesn't see a drop in system pressure and the pump doesn't cut in, which makes the situation worse. They need to check the bleed screws first though, I've seen this issue on countless cars. I've also used serkan's actuators, with no issues..
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post #27 of 41 Old 06-18-2015, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Finally after almost 6 weeks I have her back (612). There were several things that needed attention thus the delays as it took them time to get parts from Ricambi and then from Ferrari (Italy)

The techs were never able to reproduce the shifting to 4th issue, as mentioned it has been random. I'm not sure if they checked the items all of you have mentioned. I'm going to keep an eye out for it, if it does happen again i'm bonn just take her up to a Ferrari tech in Toronto.

Here is the report they gave me of the codes

** ROAD TEST VEHICLE COULD NOT VERIFY COMPLAINT. ENTER ON BOARD DIAGNOSTICS FOUND DTC P1747-REVERSE SWITCH ABSENT FOR GEARBOX CFC231. VERIFIED THE REVERSE LEVER IS BROKEN AND POSITION DOES NOT MATCH WHAT VEHICLE CONTROL UNIT IS SEEING. SHOULD BE REPLACED FIRST BEFORE ANY OTHER DIAGNOSIS/REPAIRS.
** VERIFIED CONCERN, FOUND DTC'S P1602-PERMANENT POWER SUPPLY ABSENT AND P0072-AIR TEMP SENSOR GROUND ABSENT, BOTH IN RIGHT HAND ECU. FOUND DTC'S P1033-REAR LAMBDA SENSOR CYLINER 10-11-12 NO ACTIVITY/ABSENT; P1262-CYLINDER 10-11-12 REAR LAMBDA SENSOR HEATING CHECK ABSENT; P1611-PERMANENT POWER SUPPLY; P1050-RIGHT HAND BANK LAMBDA SENSOR CIRCUIT SLOW RESPONSE PRESENT; and P1114-LEFT HAND BANK OUTSIDE TEMP SENSOR SHORT TO GROUND ABSENT. CLEARED ALL DTC'S AND MONITORED A/F RATIO SENSORS WITH OSCILLISAGE-EVERYTHING OK AT THIS TIME. CAN TELL THIS ENGINE HAS BEEN APART MULTIPLE TIMES AND COULD HAVE BEEN A CAUSE TO THE DTC, RECOMMEND MONITOR AND REPORT WITH ANY ISSUES.


The following is what they replaced/worked on

Replaced the Reverse lever, they modified one of the others out there since the one for the 612 was pretty pricey.

Flushed F1 fluid, replaced,
Differential and transaxle fluid fluid flush/replace
Oil change
Replaced the Kaiser valve and tube
Replaced all the o2 lambda sensors
And also replaced the F1 relay

So far haven't had the issue with going to neutral when shifting up into 4th or downshifting into 4th.

The CEL came on today, less than 24 hours ager i brought her home, I was riding on fumes this morning literally. After filling her up the CEL went away, I'm hoping it's just some gunk that cleared up. Any suggestions on using fuel cleaner to clear out any gunk?
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post #28 of 41 Old 07-30-2015, 08:01 AM
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Read the stored code for the CEL before assuming it's gunk ?
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post #29 of 41 Old 07-30-2015, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSofVirginia View Post
I suspect the gearbox actuator is giving you trouble and needs to be replaced. It is a common issue on these older cars and ones with mileage. Now, that is not to say there isn't another item or two that could need attention as well.


A tech that is familiar with the F1 system can comb through the parameters section and locate data points that indicate faulty components with reasonable ease.
My tech Roberto @ Roselli agrees with Josh. Says out of the 4 Serkan actuators he tried, only 2 worked and so it's not worth it. He replaced the actuator on my Maserati and then opened a drawer in his shop....never seen so many bad actuators from Ferrari and Maserati in one place, he has 30+ units there to show his customers how common the problem is.
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post #30 of 41 Old 07-30-2015, 01:05 PM
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I just had my 575M at track this past Sunday at Mosport and on a few occasions while upshifting from 5th to 6th on the Mosport straight the F1 jumped into Neutral, it happened once from 4th to 5th as well. It doesn't seem to be repeatable for me either though, it only seems to happen sometimes, which means that it would be a nightmare for a mechanic/tech to pinpoint and solve the problem. I think its best just to leave it unless it gets worse.
Clyde
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post #31 of 41 Old 07-31-2015, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
I just had my 575M at track this past Sunday at Mosport and on a few occasions while upshifting from 5th to 6th on the Mosport straight the F1 jumped into Neutral, it happened once from 4th to 5th as well. It doesn't seem to be repeatable for me either though, it only seems to happen sometimes, which means that it would be a nightmare for a mechanic/tech to pinpoint and solve the problem. I think its best just to leave it unless it gets worse.
Clyde
Hi Clyde,
how are you?
As soon i will see my Ferrari technician i will ask him a probably cause of it.
Fortunately my F1 system until today not have problems ...
Best

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #32 of 41 Old 07-31-2015, 06:27 AM
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Thank you Fabio,
I look forward to hearing what your technician has to say about this, because its a little worrying for me but I don't really want to take up the expense of a F1 transmission repair, especially if its not a repeatable issue but only happens sometimes.
By the way, I decided to keep my 18" Barchetta rims instead of upgrading to 19" rims and will send to repair the bent section of my 18" Barchetta rims in a few weeks. I will also replace hoses and brake lines. I have lowered my car prior to going to the track and I must say it handles much better now with much less lean and float (the shop used the same specs as how they did to a friend's 575 who is very knowledgeable and a very good driver). Actually they barely lowered the front, but added more camber, but lowered the back a few inches. Unfortunately with the Barchetta rims the car seems a little strange looking when lowered, so I will have to buy wheel spacers from the UK to improve the look. Here is a photo

Clyde

Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi Clyde,
how are you?
As soon i will see my Ferrari technician i will ask him a probably cause of it.
Fortunately my F1 system until today not have problems ...
Best
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post #33 of 41 Old 07-31-2015, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
Thank you Fabio,
I look forward to hearing what your technician has to say about this, because its a little worrying for me but I don't really want to take up the expense of a F1 transmission repair, especially if its not a repeatable issue but only happens sometimes.
By the way, I decided to keep my 18" Barchetta rims instead of upgrading to 19" rims and will send to repair the bent section of my 18" Barchetta rims in a few weeks. I will also replace hoses and brake lines. I have lowered my car prior to going to the track and I must say it handles much better now with much less lean and float (the shop used the same specs as how they did to a friend's 575 who is very knowledgeable and a very good driver). Actually they barely lowered the front, but added more camber, but lowered the back a few inches. Unfortunately with the Barchetta rims the car seems a little strange looking when lowered, so I will have to buy wheel spacers from the UK to improve the look. Here is a photo

Clyde
Clyde,
is a great car !

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
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post #34 of 41 Old 08-04-2015, 07:31 AM
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Thank you Fabio

Clyde

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Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Clyde,
is a great car !
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post #35 of 41 Old 08-05-2015, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
I just had my 575M at track this past Sunday at Mosport and on a few occasions while upshifting from 5th to 6th on the Mosport straight the F1 jumped into Neutral, it happened once from 4th to 5th as well. It doesn't seem to be repeatable for me either though, it only seems to happen sometimes, which means that it would be a nightmare for a mechanic/tech to pinpoint and solve the problem. I think its best just to leave it unless it gets worse.
Clyde
Hi Clyde,
this morning i went to my Ferrari dealer and i asked to the mechanic about your problem, he told me that in general are not a problem, is only necessary to do a self-learning on the F1 system on the road with the SD2 tester that have a dedicated procedure.

The reason is this:
- when the car is new, in the factory, they do a self-learning in order that the F1 unit know the exact stroke of the single gear forks, is normal during the use of the car after more km that this shift strokes change a little bit due to the normal wear of the parts, and is necessary sometimes to do this procedure.
My mechanic did this, on my 575, last year during the annual service, also if i never had shift problems.

Best Regards

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #36 of 41 Old 08-05-2015, 06:49 AM
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Dear Fabio,

Thank you so much for this news, its very helpful. I will bring it back to my dealer and ask them to perform the service for me with the SD2 to have the F1 relearn the shift strokes then. Thanks again!

Clyde

Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi Clyde,
this morning i went to my Ferrari dealer and i asked to the mechanic about your problem, he told me that in general are not a problem, is only necessary to do a self-learning on the F1 system on the road with the SD2 tester that have a dedicated procedure.

The reason is this:
- when the car is new, in the factory, they do a self-learning in order that the F1 unit know the exact stroke of the single gear forks, is normal during the use of the car after more km that this shift strokes change a little bit due to the normal wear of the parts, and is necessary sometimes to do this procedure.
My mechanic did this, on my 575, last year during the annual service, also if i never had shift problems.

Best Regards
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post #37 of 41 Old 08-11-2015, 07:25 PM
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I had a similar problem with my 575M; it would jump into neutral on upshifts under acceleration. No one but Serkan was able to diagnose and fix the problem, he is an absolute guru on the F1 system. The problem with my car turned out to be a very simple one; the pressure battery needed to be replaced. Don't waste your time and money, go to Serkan.
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post #38 of 41 Old 08-12-2015, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vmansouri View Post
I had a similar problem with my 575M; it would jump into neutral on upshifts under acceleration. No one but Serkan was able to diagnose and fix the problem, he is an absolute guru on the F1 system. The problem with my car turned out to be a very simple one; the pressure battery needed to be replaced. Don't waste your time and money, go to Serkan.

Hi Vafa,
how are you?
I not seen you from more times.....
your jump into neutral on upshifts under acceleration was shown after F1 unit refurbishment?
Did you seen the video of my exhaust system?

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #39 of 41 Old 08-12-2015, 05:13 PM
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I am in Toronto Canada, and I assume Serkan is very far away.
Anyway, I am going to take Fabio's advice:
Hi Clyde,
this morning i went to my Ferrari dealer and i asked to the mechanic about your problem, he told me that in general are not a problem, is only necessary to do a self-learning on the F1 system on the road with the SD2 tester that have a dedicated procedure.
The reason is this:
- when the car is new, in the factory, they do a self-learning in order that the F1 unit know the exact stroke of the single gear forks, is normal during the use of the car after more km that this shift strokes change a little bit due to the normal wear of the parts, and is necessary sometimes to do this procedure.
My mechanic did this, on my 575, last year during the annual service, also if i never had shift problems.
Best Regards
Fabio


Clyde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vmansouri View Post
I had a similar problem with my 575M; it would jump into neutral on upshifts under acceleration. No one but Serkan was able to diagnose and fix the problem, he is an absolute guru on the F1 system. The problem with my car turned out to be a very simple one; the pressure battery needed to be replaced. Don't waste your time and money, go to Serkan.
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post #40 of 41 Old 09-07-2015, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Have u bee to Cross Ave Auto in Oakville, Sam the owner is a great guy and his tech Tom is excellent. I'm near Rochester and have been using Cross Ave for me service and repairs.
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