Trade 2002 Ferrari 575M F1 for a 2006 F430 manual? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Trade 2002 Ferrari 575M F1 for a 2006 F430 manual?

Hi All,
I own a 2002 Argento Nurburgring Ferrari 575M Maranello with the F1 transmission and 37000 miles on the odometer (59000 kms). I have the opportunity to trade it in for a 2006 Argento Nurburgring Ferrari F430 with manual tranny and 22,000 kms (13600 miles) on the odometer. Admittedly, they are completely different cars, however, my reasoning for the consideration is that I would get a newer Ferrari with less mileage and a manual which I would prefer. At the same time, some have told me that its not a wise move as the 575 will shortly be worth more than the F430's (production numbers, 2000 vs 15000 cars made, and the fact that its a V12 vs a V8 may be the reasons). What are your views? Here are the 2 cars:
Clyde
P.S. The interior photo of my 575 is from before I installed longer Carbonio Carbon Fibre paddles which are much nicer and better for shifting.
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post #2 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 11:47 AM
 
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I simply wouldn't do so.


Why? Because I think that yes, the Ferrari range is ample actually and almost ticks all the correct boxes, but the GT V12 front-engined beauties are, at least for me, the pick of the range. The 575M plays tribute to the first Ferrari´s heritage.


Also, the 550/575M was the return of the brand to the front-engined V12 concept (a kind of back to basis) abandoned after the Daytona. 20 years had to pass to see again a two seater V12 front-engined car from the brand, so I think the 550 and 575M are cars to celebrate, and thus will be appreciating classic in less than five years.


You´re right, units built, needless to say.


Also they´re not very complex (not full of electronic gizmos), so will be a reliable classic as its "analogic" still, and the car just has a traction control system fitted, so its still the driver the protagonist and the car is tuned to perform and not a "huge pile of HP and chassis mess" controlled by electronic units here and there that make it drivable.

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post #3 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by goliat View Post
I simply wouldn't do so.


Why? Because I think that yes, the Ferrari range is ample actually and almost ticks all the correct boxes, but the GT V12 front-engined beauties are, at least for me, the pick of the range. The 575M plays tribute to the first Ferrari´s heritage.


Also, the 550/575M was the return of the brand to the front-engined V12 concept (a kind of back to basis) abandoned after the Daytona. 20 years had to pass to see again a two seater V12 front-engined car from the brand, so I think the 550 and 575M are cars to celebrate, and thus will be appreciating classic in less than five years.


You´re right, units built, needless to say.


Also they´re not very complex (not full of electronic gizmos), so will be a reliable classic as its "analogic" still, and the car just has a traction control system fitted, so its still the driver the protagonist and the car is tuned to perform and not a "huge pile of HP and chassis mess" controlled by electronic units here and there that make it drivable.
Your thoughts echo those of someone on a similar thread from another forum where I posted this, and I guess they are correct. The Ferrari 550/575 has the classic Ferrari front engine look, even repeating some of the design themes of the 250/275 series (side stakes), whereas the F430 represents the new era look of Ferraris (as did the 360, and in front engine guise the 599). I'm actually a fan of both eras, but its interesting for me to note that most people who are more fans of the 550/575 Maranello tend to be my contemporaries in age, while fans of the F430 tend to be younger. I love the fact that my 575 has the V12, I even bought a personal license plate to reflect that (V12 Pony). Yes I would agree, long term its got to be a better investment, however, when it comes to the fun factor, don't you think that having a Mannetino and E-dif offers more of a fun factor and control than the more analog 575 (Most of the reporters seem to rave about it including Top Gear)?
Clyde
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post #4 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
Your thoughts echo those of someone on a similar thread from another forum where I posted this, and I guess they are correct. The Ferrari 550/575 has the classic Ferrari front engine look, even repeating some of the design themes of the 250/275 series (side stakes), whereas the F430 represents the new era look of Ferraris (as did the 360, and in front engine guise the 599). I'm actually a fan of both eras, but its interesting for me to note that most people who are more fans of the 550/575 Maranello tend to be my contemporaries in age, while fans of the F430 tend to be younger. I love the fact that my 575 has the V12, I even bought a personal license plate to reflect that (V12 Pony). Yes I would agree, long term its got to be a better investment, however, when it comes to the fun factor, don't you think that having a Mannetino and E-dif offers more of a fun factor and control than the more analog 575 (Most of the reporters seem to rave about it including Top Gear)?
Clyde


Clyde,
obviously plus the car is of recently design and plus is full of electronics, like Mannetino and E-dif, for someone those systems do the car less man controlled and less appetible (in general the collection man) for other the more important thing is to buy the last Ferrari, and how she is less important ....
I had a 550, i read in this forum how is appreciated the manual gear box, i have traded for a 575 F1 and i'm happy of my F1 gearbox ...
There is no a only one way, we are all different .... and my advise probably is not good for you ....
Ithink you need tostart from one question: as you want?
...is not to easy aswer ...
i know well this question ... ahahahaha

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
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post #5 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Clyde,
obviously plus the car is of recently design and plus is full of electronics, like Mannetino and E-dif, for someone those systems do the car less man controlled and less appetible (in general the collection man) for other the more important thing is to buy the last Ferrari, and how she is less important ....
I had a 550, i read in this forum how is appreciated the manual gear box, i have traded for a 575 F1 and i'm happy of my F1 gearbox ...
There is no a only one way, we are all different .... and my advise probably is not good for you ....
Ithink you need tostart from one question: as you want?
...is not to easy aswer ...
i know well this question ... ahahahaha
Hi Fabio
Actually I am happy with my F1 box too, though I miss having a manual as previous to the 575 I've always driven manual cars (not easy in North America to always find a manual). Yes everyone has different taste.
I think the best choice would be to have both cars and enjoying the variety that both cars offer. I guess I am being greedy .
Actually I am trying to see if I can afford to keep the 575 and get the F430 also, if its possible I will do it, if not I will be back to "square one" and trying to decide what to do.

Clyde
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post #6 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 02:17 PM
 
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Hi Clyde, have you driven this 430 yet? I personally am somehow always less impressed with the modern Ferrari V8's compared to the V12 two seaters of the same era. There is just less of a car.

That said the F430 is a fantastic machine which would supplement your 575M very nice indeed. The colors seem to be of your taste, the mileage is great and it being a manual makes this car very collectable too. Soms 12000 430's in total (numbers vary from source to source) but around 10% was manual so less F430 manuals than the total of about 2000 575's.
If you can find a way to afford both, i'm sure you won 't regred it, if not, then my humble advise would be to drive both back to back and decide.

PS I am also planning to do the yellow stripes (and the 3 white roundels) on my grigio titanio 550. I'm sure it'll look amazing and can be removed in an instant whenever you get bored with it.
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post #7 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 02:33 PM
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575 will be the better investment, but that is only part of the story and the least important part. What really matters is which car you will enjoy driving most - that is the one to pick and only you can decide.

Best wishes, John
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post #8 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Trade 2002 Ferrari 575M F1 for a 2006 F430 manual?

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Hi Clyde, have you driven this 430 yet? I personally am somehow always less impressed with the modern Ferrari V8's compared to the V12 two seaters of the same era. There is just less of a car.

That said the F430 is a fantastic machine which would supplement your 575M very nice indeed. The colors seem to be of your taste, the mileage is great and it being a manual makes this car very collectable too. Soms 12000 430's in total (numbers vary from source to source) but around 10% was manual so less F430 manuals than the total of about 2000 575's.
If you can find a way to afford both, i'm sure you won 't regred it, if not, then my humble advise would be to drive both back to back and decide.

PS I am also planning to do the yellow stripes (and the 3 white roundels) on my grigio titanio 550. I'm sure it'll look amazing and can be removed in an instant whenever you get bored with it.

Thanks for your comments and advice. No, I haven't driven the 430 yet and probably should before I make a decision. There are plenty around to rent for a day or two when I can (though not manuals) which will mean waiting for the Spring because it's Winter here now (deep snow).. My 575 is currently in storage. I may have a different view after I drive one, it's true. I know I love my 575, which is behind my indecision and inquiries here. It's my first Ferrari and there is some emotional attachment so it would be hard to part with even if I was sure that the F430 was a better car or more enjoyable (which I'm not).
Interesting that there are less percentage of manual F430s than 575s, I wouldn't have thought that. I guess it was this very low percentage of manual orders that convinced Ferrari to abandon the traditional manual for their road cars to begin with.
Yes if I can figure out a way to afford both then that would be great! I'm working on it.
Please post pics of your car after you put the stripes and roundels on, I'd love to see it
Thanks again
Clyde
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post #9 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Trade 2002 Ferrari 575M F1 for a 2006 F430 manual?

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Originally Posted by Bluebottle View Post
575 will be the better investment, but that is only part of the story and the least important part. What really matters is which car you will enjoy driving most - that is the one to pick and only you can decide.

I'll have to wait for the Spring and test drive a 430 before I decide. I guess now's not the time to go ahead with a deal considering what I've been reading that some are not happy with the Ferrari V8s, but even if they were, I need to see how I like the feel of the car as opposed to my 575 which is totally different. The 575 makes me feel special when I drive it, so I would have to get the same feeling from the 430 or I would take a pass on it.
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post #10 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 05:52 PM
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I would imagine a F430 MT car is extremely rare and I've seen some of them priced near the Scuederia versions. Yes there are tons of F430s, but MT versions accounted for a tiny percentage - they will not depreciate much, IMO.

Regardless, this is a big swing: Front-engine V12 to mid-engine V8.

A lot depends on what you plan to do with it. If its track, I would go with the F430; you'll work hard with the MT, but the experience of a gated shifter is worth it.

If your looking for a mostly highway car, then I would stay with the 575 V12. I like the dynamics of a front-engined car for the road, and the turbine power delivery of a V12 has no equal.

Another option to consider it to hunt down a 612 MT car - newer, V12, and about 10% had the MT. The 599 was really geared towards F1, so very, very few MT versions were made of that Ferrari.

Good luck, Clyde.

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post #11 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 05:57 PM
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Adam- Near as we can figure, 10-15% three pedal F430s, about half or less than the 29% three pedal 360s.

That is still getting close to the total number of 575Ms since about 15,000 were built (1500-2250 three pedals).

Taz
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post #12 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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I would imagine a F430 MT car is extremely rare and I've seen some of them priced near the Scuederia versions. Yes there are tons of F430s, but MT versions accounted for a tiny percentage - they will not depreciate much, IMO.

Regardless, this is a big swing: Front-engine V12 to mid-engine V8.

A lot depends on what you plan to do with it. If its track, I would go with the F430; you'll work hard with the MT, but the experience of a gated shifter is worth it.

If your looking for a mostly highway car, then I would stay with the 575 V12. I like the dynamics of a front-engined car for the road, and the turbine power delivery of a V12 has no equal.

Another option to consider it to hunt down a 612 MT car - newer, V12, and about 10% had the MT. The 599 was really geared towards F1, so very, very few MT versions were made of that Ferrari.

Good luck, Clyde.

Thanks for the info on the #'s of 3 pedal F430's, that certainly does make it a more interesting proposition. At this time, however, I am considering it more as an addition rather than a trade. Beyond everything else, I've only had my 575 for a little over a year and a half, which was not long enough to get the full enjoyment out of it, so I plan to keep it longer. If I can add an F430 to my garage as well, that would just be icing on the cake.
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post #13 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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Adam- Near as we can figure, 10-15% three pedal F430s, about half or less than the 29% three pedal 360s.



That is still getting close to the total number of 575Ms since about 15,000 were built (1500-2250 three pedals).

You are a living breathing encyclopedia on Ferraris Terry, thank you for being you!
Clyde
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post #14 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Adam- Near as we can figure, 10-15% three pedal F430s, about half or less than the 29% three pedal 360s.

That is still getting close to the total number of 575Ms since about 15,000 were built (1500-2250 three pedals).
Thanks, Taz.

Thankfully, there are plenty of MT 360 models out there. If the current market continues its trend, I'll probably look to acquire a MT 360 or F430 F1 to go with the 612. (Ashamed to admit I'm also keeping an eye on the Porsche GT3 as well).

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post #15 of 37 Old 02-02-2015, 11:06 PM
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Clyde, I did what you are thinking of doing and added an 08 F430 to the 575M before Christmas. Unfortunately the weather and commitments have meant I haven't diriven either since, and not back to back which I am really look forward to.

However, I am back to front on spec compared to most as my 575M is a 3 pedal and the F430 is F1. I only ever considered a 3 pedal 575M many moons ago, and it took me nearly two years to find and buy mine. I also never considered a 550 over the 3 pedal 575M. For the F430 I only wanted F1 mated with the mid engined V8 and that took less than a week after spotting the add.

Not sure about values but as mentioned the lower the numbers the better chance of retained value. So with the F430 buying the best one with the most desirable spec is key. CF race seats, CCM brakes etc will help and if numbers of 3 pedals are low that too. But I have to say to me the manual seems a little last generation when in the F430, especially since the F1 was so good by then. Only my opinion tho and easy for me as I have the choice depending on the mood.

Cheers
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post #16 of 37 Old 02-03-2015, 12:29 AM
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Keep the 575M. Your car is such a prestigious Ferrari
Add a mid engined V8 when you can for fun. I don't think it really matters what series.

David.

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post #17 of 37 Old 02-03-2015, 02:30 AM
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Keep the 575M. Your car is such a prestigious Ferrari
Add a mid engined V8 when you can for fun. I don't think it really matters what series.

David.

http://youtu.be/7X3HqFYkxYY

http://youtu.be/Z-iXnkarNWw
Clyde, here's your best and most succinct advice. My last: seems like you're playing mind games with yourself on both sites.

Seth
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post #18 of 37 Old 02-03-2015, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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Clyde, here's your best and most succinct advice. My last: seems like you're playing mind games with yourself on both sites.

Sorry Seth, I must have mixed up the thread reply with another one to someone else? Anyway, thank you for your advice Seth and I have decided to heed it. I will be keeping my 575 and only getting the F430 if I can afford it as a 2nd Ferrari. Beyond everyone's advice here, I realized that I like my 575 too much at present to part with it. Took me a while but there you go.
Thanks again
Clyde
P.S. Yes I usually play mind games with myself when I am indecisive

Last edited by tifosi_; 02-03-2015 at 05:55 AM.
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post #19 of 37 Old 02-03-2015, 03:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 16M Down Under View Post
Keep the 575M. Your car is such a prestigious Ferrari

Add a mid engined V8 when you can for fun. I don't think it really matters what series.



David.



http://youtu.be/7X3HqFYkxYY



http://youtu.be/Z-iXnkarNWw


A 458 in a few years would be great!
Clyde
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post #20 of 37 Old 02-03-2015, 04:05 AM Thread Starter
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Clyde, I did what you are thinking of doing and added an 08 F430 to the 575M before Christmas. Unfortunately the weather and commitments have meant I haven't diriven either since, and not back to back which I am really look forward to.

However, I am back to front on spec compared to most as my 575M is a 3 pedal and the F430 is F1. I only ever considered a 3 pedal 575M many moons ago, and it took me nearly two years to find and buy mine. I also never considered a 550 over the 3 pedal 575M. For the F430 I only wanted F1 mated with the mid engined V8 and that took less than a week after spotting the add.

Not sure about values but as mentioned the lower the numbers the better chance of retained value. So with the F430 buying the best one with the most desirable spec is key. CF race seats, CCM brakes etc will help and if numbers of 3 pedals are low that too. But I have to say to me the manual seems a little last generation when in the F430, especially since the F1 was so good by then. Only my opinion tho and easy for me as I have the choice depending on the mood.

Cheers
Michael

Hi Michael,
Your experience is similar to mine on the 575, with the exception being that after over a year of searching around North America, and losing out on a manual 575 that I had my eyes on, I finally decided to bite the bullet and go ahead with this very nice 575 F1 I found locally and at a good price. At first I regretted the fact that it was an F1 and it took me a little while to get used to it, but now I actually really like the F1 on the 575. True its the first generation on the V12 and slower than the 599's (or F430's for that matter), but it still works well at the track, and on the street as well (and it still shifts faster than I can myself manually). Having said that, I do miss the engaging feel of a manual, and I really like the look of the F430, so in seeing this car I got to thinking about switching, but I have now rethought things and decided its best to just add the F430 to my garage if I can do it now, or later.
Clyde
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