F575 sport exhaust manifolds - Page 9 - Ferrari Life
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post #161 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 03:11 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
Fabio, back in the day, I had a friend over in Austin TX who did six cylinder turbo headers in 321 SS for the Supra community. I'll try to contact them and see if he would share his source of 321 tubing with me, and if so, I'll pass it along to you. They were beautiful headers, and had some very complicated bends.

John,
Thanks, i started a new search, today i have found a titanium pipe 38x1, ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #162 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 04:45 AM
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When I was doing headers for my race car I used Burns Stainless for both 304 and 321. Their merge collectors are a work of art, I often thought of putting one on my mantle

Shipping and custom duties may be prohibitive but it might be worth asking.

Find Custom Exhaust, Header Collectors, Race Mufflers & More | Burns Stainless

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post #163 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
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Attacher the two technical data of 304 & 304L, as you can see the L grade is superior that 304, not sensible to the corrosion interstitial, i think not bad for road use.
In every case the tests that are in progress will ...
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File Type: pdf 304.pdf (1,015.7 KB, 108 views)
File Type: pdf 304L1.pdf (950.7 KB, 91 views)

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PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #164 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 05:51 AM
 
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I would do a prototype in Titanium, also if it is more expensive and some times have problem of crak, but is nice to see and very light, inconel probably would good, but is not easy to find every dimensions.
Titanium's tough to work with, but the luster, weight and bragging rights might be worth it.
The Russians use a lot of different varieties of titanium, especially in their rocket engines... good luck getting any...
I've heard of inconel manifolds and exhaust valves for really ridiculous turbo builds, but was joking about it in this case.

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Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
For last, i'm very happy of the my results, i think is a little miracle to insert 6-1 manifold plus a big cat in the little space of maranello engine compartment, you not forget, without any modifcation of the car (most important thing for me), not even ECU, and perfectly fit to the original central pipes.
About the little space of engine compartment, is interesting note that all 550 of 575 that raced (Prodrive, NTechnology or other ..) the have shifted the steering box in front of the engine and removed the steering column from the original location, also the starter engine was shifted, in this way their exhaust system was a more free design ... (see pictures)
I had thought about asking you if you'd considered building a new steering shaft with 3 or more universal joints. This would allow the steering shaft to bend around the collector/catalyst and give you more room to work. However, I don't know enough specifics about the 550/575 engine bay to know if that's possible.

Steering shaft clearance is a big concern for putting 8 cylinder engines into BMW 3 series cars as well.
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post #165 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 06:02 AM
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Would anyone know off hand what custom or import duties might be for Italy from US?
Have mentioned to Fabio that I have a good friend who owns Custom Tube Products and does high end tubing including aviation spec, original equipment auto and much more. As you would imagine an array of very nice equipment. He can be very competitive. They can make the bends and likely have access to whatever tubing necessary.
Suspect we could get some pretty good pricing if it's not totally prohibitive to import.
Bill
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post #166 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
Titanium's tough to work with, but the luster, weight and bragging rights might be worth it.
The Russians use a lot of different varieties of titanium, especially in their rocket engines... good luck getting any...
I've heard of inconel manifolds and exhaust valves for really ridiculous turbo builds, but was joking about it in this case.



I had thought about asking you if you'd considered building a new steering shaft with 3 or more universal joints. This would allow the steering shaft to bend around the collector/catalyst and give you more room to work. However, I don't know enough specifics about the 550/575 engine bay to know if that's possible.

Steering shaft clearance is a big concern for putting 8 cylinder engines into BMW 3 series cars as well.
Hi,
yes is possible to building a new steering shaft with 3 or more universal joints, but i never considered this hypothesis, steering column is a most important thing (vital) and personally i think is better to not do this kind of modifications, i don't know in case of accident what do the insurance, because exhaust not compromise the safety but the steering yes, also if the modification is better that the original.
On 550-575 there would a space problem also on right side, the starter engine ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #167 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Would anyone know off hand what custom or import duties might be for Italy from US?
Have mentioned to Fabio that I have a good friend who owns Custom Tube Products and does high end tubing including aviation spec, original equipment auto and much more. As you would imagine an array of very nice equipment. He can be very competitive. They can make the bends and likely have access to whatever tubing necessary.
Suspect we could get some pretty good pricing if it's not totally prohibitive to import.
Bill
Fla
Bill,
i have imported from Canada asome little carbon pieces, the Italian import duties was calculated on an arbitrary value different from the invoice! 3.5 % + 22% of VAT.
If my supplier accept to bend the pipe for me, i can buy the straight pipes and after will machining in italy.
Depend of the importation costs ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #168 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 06:26 AM
 
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p.s.: imagine an exhaust system like my on your F 50 ...... F1 of Alain Prost sound.....
Like the J wolf or MS Racing exhaust!

J wolf:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbX48213JC8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34kGw821RY

J wolf is the definitive exhaust sound for the F50 (and best of all ever cars) for me...what a noise.
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post #169 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 09:33 AM
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Hi Pete,
thanks, too compliments ..
In case, you would like for your 550 a cat version or no-cat version?
I would need a cat version.
I am getting ready to start an update of my Maranello "major" thread on the "other" site, and if I decide to go with these headers I will make the install of them part of the thread.
Free advertising. :-)
Keep up the great work!!!
Pete
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post #170 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 10:46 AM
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Import duties to the US are 3.5%. I just imported four wheels for the 575M and that was the rate for auto parts. On most smaller orders, customs just blows it off as not worth the effort.

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post #171 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 11:31 AM
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Thanks Taz. I was looking into cost involved for getting supplies to Fabio. He's got it covered, so we're all good.
Bill
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post #172 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
Fabio, back in the day, I had a friend over in Austin TX who did six cylinder turbo headers in 321 SS for the Supra community. I'll try to contact them and see if he would share his source of 321 tubing with me, and if so, I'll pass it along to you. They were beautiful headers, and had some very complicated bends.
Contacted him and he no longer does them in 321, only 304 with 321 flanges. He did an initial batch of 10 in all 321, but the market just wasn't there to support it. That was back in 2003 or 4 and about the same time cheap headers started coming in from Thailand, and you could buy them for $600 on eBay.

He also said he sourced his 321 tubing from Burns.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #173 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Contacted him and he no longer does them in 321, only 304 with 321 flanges. He did an initial batch of 10 in all 321, but the market just wasn't there to support it. That was back in 2003 or 4 and about the same time cheap headers started coming in from Thailand, and you could buy them for $600 on eBay.

He also said he sourced his 321 tubing from Burns.

John,
thanks, i visited burns stainless steel, as you can see the price are not so competitive, you do think that my manifolds need about 3-4 - curves to do each pipe!
Between few time the two tests will be finished, one on my 575 and one on the 550 on track, i hope will be ok.


Burns Stainless LLC - 321 SS Tubing ~ U-Bends


John,
today i have found a titanium pipe OD 38mm Tkm 1 mm, the supplier told me that dimension is used for exhausts, unfortunately they not bend pipes ....
I asked to them a bid for pipes and plates (water cutted) for two set of manifolds, not for the cat.
My welder company weld Ti without problems, they welded Ti parst for Ducati.
If the price will be interesting, i will pass to the next problem, find a bending company ....
I think if exhausts will be be my future business,the solution to disengaged me from the suppliers is buy a bending machine!
Every time that i ask a particular thing, all answer me no!

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #174 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 01:37 PM
 
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Having your own bender, especially a CNC mandrel bender would be immensely liberating for you.

Have you checked out Tube Bending & Fabrication - Columbia River Mandrel Bending ?
That's a company called Columbia River Mandrel Bending... They have a WIDE selection and good prices.
For 1.5" 304 16 gauge (your 38 x 1.5), they have bends in 2.25", 3.0" and 4.5" radii.

I still say nothing gives you more bend for the dollar (lira? euro?) than donuts

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post #175 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 01:49 PM
 
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Apparently i did a bunch of swearing at the forum for losing my post without needing to...
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post #176 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
John,
thanks, i visited burns stainless steel, as you can see the price are not so competitive, you do think that my manifolds need about 3-4 - curves to do each pipe!
Between few time the two tests will be finished, one on my 575 and one on the 550 on track, i hope will be ok.


Burns Stainless LLC - 321 SS Tubing ~ U-Bends


John,
today i have found a titanium pipe OD 38mm Tkm 1 mm, the supplier told me that dimension is used for exhausts, unfortunately they not bend pipes ....
I asked to them a bid for pipes and plates (water cutted) for two set of manifolds, not for the cat.
My welder company weld Ti without problems, they welded Ti parst for Ducati.
If the price will be interesting, i will pass to the next problem, find a bending company ....
I think if exhausts will be be my future business,the solution to disengaged me from the suppliers is buy a bending machine!
Every time that i ask a particular thing, all answer me no!
Don't lose heart Fabio, Dave & I (Maranello Skunkworks) have been down more blind alleys than we care to think about as we develop products, and we have some of the most interesting junk piles you've ever seen; I think our current ratio is running about 5:1 (junk vs useful products).

I think you have a great idea for this product and I would think you could cover the 456, 550, and 575M cars with very few changes. That's pretty good coverage, and with the propensity of Ferrari headers to crack, eventually nearly every owner is going to need a new set, so it's over $20K for genuine Ferrari parts (with the same problems as the originals), or $13K or $14K for the Supersprints, or yours, which are better quality at a much more attractive price (we hope!).

I'm in a similar situation as you with my COP ignition kits. The Ferrari HT spark plug wires and plastic covers are now costing over $1700 for EACH side for the 456 and 550 cars, so that's $3500, just for the wires (plus another $1200 for the coils). I can replace the whole system with a more modern setup that looks better and produces a better spark for less than half that.

The youngest of these cars is now nearly 14 years old, and eventually all those HV wires are going to start leaking and go bad, and just like your headers, nearly every owner is going to need a new set, or my system. which is better quality, and half the price.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #177 of 410 Old 01-13-2015, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
Have you checked out Tube Bending & Fabrication - Columbia River Mandrel Bending ?

The company is called Columbia River Mandrel Bending. They have a WIDE selection and good prices.
304 in 11, 12, 16 & 18 gauge; 321 in 16 gauge. They have multiple bend radii available for common sizes. For 1.5" 304 16 gauge (your 38 x 1.5), they have bends in 2.25", 3.0" and 4.5" radii.

Of course I still say that the most bend for the dollar (lira? euro?) is to use donuts

I have checked out Tube Bending & Fabrication - Columbia River Mandrel Bending, the price apparently are approx like burns.
I not find my dimensions:
OD 38.1 Thk 1.2 with R= 38 mm,53 mm & 56 mm.
I can't use others radius or other pipe diameters otherwise my equipments and my drawing will be to completely revise...
When i started my design i used radius more big, that easy to find but i not be able to do a good arrangement for the pipes in the little space at disposal, then i find a supplier who have those radius, practically my manifolds cluttering approx like the pre-cats original, is not so easy ....
Probably you have reason that the most bend for the dollar is to use donuts.

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #178 of 410 Old 01-19-2015, 05:55 AM Thread Starter
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Saturday i have completed the system for 550 (or 575) without cats and without secondary air system, this morning i brought it to the welder, next saturday probably will be ready, and i hope will be on test early ....
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PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #179 of 410 Old 01-19-2015, 10:28 AM
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Fabio- Looks great. I am beginning to think your 304L will work fine.

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #180 of 410 Old 01-19-2015, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Fabio- Looks great. I am beginning to think your 304L will work fine.

Terry,
i'm very curious to listen the sound without cats, will be on a 550 and not on a 575, but i think not will be big difference of sound.
I drove my 575 also last saturday, for a few km but with fast acceleration .... after the necessary time to go on temperature.
I brought around a friend who have a grancabrio 4.7, he was enthusiast of the acceleration of 575, but not for his GC ..... Those are two different cars ....
About the material, as you read my posts of last week, i not find other, i find titanium 38x1 but i not find a bender, for the record at today i not received bid for titanium ..... i think they not need to sell...
I think that the fire test will be the track days of 550 without cats ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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