F575 sport exhaust manifolds - Page 11 - Ferrari Life
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post #201 of 410 Old 02-04-2015, 06:09 AM Thread Starter
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575 exhaust - improvement

Hello all,

For first all this improvement is valid only for installation on 575-575SA-612, not for 550.
As I wrote few times in past weeks,i'm testing my exhaust system, in catalytic version, on my 575M, in order to find eventual problem or do improvement.

At the end of last week i brought my 575 to my Ferrari mechanic for the checks, that we had programmed from time, in order to verify the general operation of the system, this in my shop is nopossible because i not have the appropriate equipment.
I drove about 220 km in total, with lots of cycles hot cold, before checks.

The verified that we wanted to do :
- lambda operational ratio
- exhaust analysis
- pollution analysis
- eventual losses
- eventual cracks

Response of friday evening was:
- no eventual losses was present
- with SD3 we find an error onlambda sensors of engine right side, if we cancel the error was shown after fewtime.
- exhaust analysis from the four sampling points was not aligned between their at minimum rpm, was approx ok atcold and unequal at hot.
- at the high rpm and, or, at thehigh throttle was be ok.

My Diagnosed: probably this situation born in my lambda pre-cat positioning, now both lambda sensor read the same exhaust gas in the 6-1 connection point, in original configuration the two lambda sensors read the two cylinder group separately 1-3 and 4-6.
Probably the ECU control the two cylinder group separately, that create this the misalignment, before i start my project i asked if there was this mode operational but no one knew the answer....

My Improvement Solution: after thinking, my idea was to shift the two lambda on cylinder 2 and cylinder 5, inthis way they read the gas of ttwo Group of cylinders.
On monday morning we removed the two manifolds, in the afternoon did 4 threaded bushings, tuesday morning my welders install the 4 bushings and yesterday evening all was installed on the 575!

Note: After disassembly, no losses showed on the flanges and not cracks on the pipes or welds!

Meanwhile my mechanic was able to contact an electronic technician inside the Ferrari factory, difficult thing, and explained to him my exhaust system and the operational lambda results, he answered that my idea was good because the operation of ECU is three cylinders for three.

This morning the engine re-running and did tests of the improvement:
- no error was shown on ECU.
- exhaust analysis from the four sampling points was perfectly aligned between their, both on cold and hot engine.
- at minimum engine run very smooth (same at high rpm)

Follow some pictures of the printed exhaust analysis of four cylinders groups compared with same analysys did on a F599 just this morning, please note that the values of 599 are over that my 575 ....!
You can see as are equal between various cylinder and that is very able to pass the "annual verification".
The analysis from back muffler showed values very less to read by the analyzer.
My Ferrari mechanic told that is a great result, he did test at various rpm, cold and hot engine, next first sunned day he will do a data acquisition from ECU on the road.

For me is a big success!!!

Now weather is bad, as soon will arrivesun i will go on the road, i think i'm arrived in a good point, I miss tolisten the sound ......

I hope you appreciate my working way, my honesty to explain all my developing and hide nothing ....
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PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
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post #202 of 410 Old 02-04-2015, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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More people that wrote me in private, i have answered at all, and i think i have explain all i can ...
I'm sorry if i not satisfied you .... however thanks of your requests.
A maybe a simple thanks would be appreciated .....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #203 of 410 Old 02-04-2015, 07:29 AM
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Fabio
Even though our private emails were of a completely different matter, I thank you for your communication and advice, and hope we get to meet if I go to Italy in April.
Clyde
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post #204 of 410 Old 02-04-2015, 08:25 AM
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post #205 of 410 Old 02-04-2015, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Terry,
Good, those are for Goliat .... but the muffler is too big, like te OE standard, HGTC of 575 are about 50% less volume ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'

Last edited by 550_Maranello; 02-04-2015 at 08:48 AM.
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post #206 of 410 Old 02-04-2015, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi_ View Post
Fabio
Even though our private emails were of a completely different matter, I thank you for your communication and advice, and hope we get to meet if I go to Italy in April.
Clyde
Noooo .... Clyde, you are very kindly ..... !!!
I'm refering to FL private email ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'

Last edited by 550_Maranello; 02-04-2015 at 12:10 PM.
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post #207 of 410 Old 03-17-2015, 06:30 PM
 
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This thread desperately needs

Sound Files of those beauties. GTS Bruce
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post #208 of 410 Old 03-18-2015, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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Sound Files of those beauties. GTS Bruce
Bruce,
for now there are these...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkRUkO3K8T0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIzoicKMHT0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5m9UOVhGQA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDeJiiJm2VY

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PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
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post #209 of 410 Old 03-20-2015, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Not only ferrary exhaust

Hello,
perhaps is not the correct Forum but we are all mechanical enthusiast and i would like to showing my new project ....
Sport exhaust with valve for 500 Abarth
The first prototype i do for one my friend, he have a white 500 Abarth SS where we installed a Garrett T04, bilstein setup, 305mm brembo brake discs ...
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PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
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post #210 of 410 Old 03-20-2015, 11:04 AM
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Fabio- That should be nice and loud when the bypass valve is open. Pretty much straight pipes.

Taz
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post #211 of 410 Old 03-21-2015, 03:49 AM
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Beautiful fabrication work Fabio; it appears there really are some "old world artisans" left in the "old world"

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #212 of 410 Old 03-21-2015, 05:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hello,
perhaps is not the correct Forum but we are all mechanical enthusiast and i would like to showing my new project ....Sport exhaust with valve for 500 Abarth. The first prototype I do for one my friend, he have a white 500 Abarth SS where we installed a Garrett T04, bilstein setup, 305mm brembo brake discs ...
Ciao Fabio,

Bravo...bravisimo!...perfecto...you are a champion master craftsman

Saluti,

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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post #213 of 410 Old 03-24-2015, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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HI guys,
this morning i picked up the pipe just welded from my welder craftsman, the project is in progress ....

I need to end all system for the 02 of may because my friend will go to a big 500 Abarth meeting in Modena circuit on the 3 of may, will be a big advertising place for me .....

I hope to do a good system ...

We will see ....
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PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #214 of 410 Old 03-26-2015, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
HI guys,
this morning i picked up the pipe just welded from my welder craftsman, the project is in progress ....

I need to end all system for the 02 of may because my friend will go to a big 500 Abarth meeting in Modena circuit on the 3 of may, will be a big advertising place for me .....

I hope to do a good system ...

We will see ....
Hello,
yesterday evening i was in the my workshop for do two threaded plugs for the installation of two thermocouple (K series adapt for teperature up 1200 C) because i would like to check the temperatures for the two cylinder banks.
I used the AISI 630 for this plugs, this material have high yield stress and more machinability, more of the 300 family stainless steel, obviously the 630 is not weldable .... and is adapt for loose pieces.

I used a good male Dormer with yellow stripe for M8 thread and the M18x1.5 thread I did by lathe ....
Pictures are of my lathe ....
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post #215 of 410 Old 03-27-2015, 02:30 AM Thread Starter
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Hello,
this morning i have picked up from a new supplier the stainless steel items (laser cutted) for the 550 abarth, and 550/575.
This supplier did in a very good way!
On the first picture there are the butterfly valves for the bypass valve, next phase is the machining of outer diameter.
On other pictures the equipment, that i designed and did by myself, for the plastic deformation of the silencer bottoms.
The two pieces, the male & the female, are in AISI 630 and they are mounted on my 45 Ton hydraulic press.
I have did a first test and the result is nice, i need to do a little modify because the obtained outer diameter 128.2mm instead of 128 mm, and the inside diameter is 37.9 instead of 38.3 mm, this because the elastic return that i considered on the design phase is little bit different to the real ... Normal on this kind of work.

Tomorrow i will adjust the equipment for the bottom, and i will calender the rolled plates for do the body of the silencer ....
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PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #216 of 410 Old 03-27-2015, 04:46 AM
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Good stuff Fabio, thanks for sharing the process.
Bill
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post #217 of 410 Old 03-27-2015, 08:50 AM
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Fabio- That part looks really professional.

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post #218 of 410 Old 03-29-2015, 11:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hello, ...I used the AISI 630 for this plugs, this material have high yield stress and more machinability, more of the 300 family stainless steel, obviously the 630 is not weldable .... and is adapt for loose pieces
Hello Fabio,

You are doing great work and I have enjoyed your photos to see its progress

Fabio, please be patient with me while I get a little technical here and share some of my metallurgical engineering expertise, since this is a good opportunity to pay you back for all the help that you have given me in the past

To everyone else here, I apologize in advance and you can simply scroll down to the last paragraph or skip this post entirely

In 1995 the American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI) system for designating stainless steel grades in the USA was discontinued and replaced by the Unified Numbering System (UNS) for Metals, which both the American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) and the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) have standardized.

Likewise, AISI 630 is an older designation that unfortunately is still used by some material suppliers today (again, it was discontinued 20 years ago). Its current standard designation is UNS S17400. It is also commonly called 17-4 PH since it nominally contains 17% chromium, 4% nickel, and 4% copper and is precipitation heat treated to change its properties for different applications. It belongs to the family of precipitation hardening (PH) stainless steels and is typically supplied in the solution annealed heat treated condition (which I expect is what you have).

This material's mechanical properties will significantly change with its heat treatment where it can be precipitation hardened after solution annealing at 900F (480C) to 1400F (760C), in steps of 100F (38C), which are designated as H900, H1000, etc. The H900 condition will provide the highest tensile strength and hardness but with minimal ductility and formability, while the H1400 will provide lower tensile strength and hardness but with higher ductility and formability. The solution annealed condition will provide the lowest tensile strength and hardness but the maximum ductility and formability that the stainless steel has to offer.

It's common to fabricate components using this material in the solution annealed condition, then to heat treat it afterwards for achieve its desired properties for the specific application. However, it can also be left in the solution annealed condition after fabrication, which I expect to be just fine with your exhaust system.

When buying this type of material it's always useful to ask for the Materials Test Report (MTR) which will include its heat treatment condition so that you better know how to work with it. For example, if you get a batch of this stainless steel that was supplied in the H900 heat treated condition, you would probably be screaming at the supplier that they sold you bad material because it would bend in your press when you cold formed it and would end up cracking (breaking) since H900 does not have good ductility or formability

All of the PH stainless steels are prone to work hardening since they go through metallurgical phase transformations when cold formed, which would account for the dimensional instability you've already noticed.

This grade of stainless steel is weldable, but requires special attention. I have used it for many applications, for example, fabricating large industrial compressor impellers, and welded them successfully. If you have a need to weld this material, please send me a PM and I'd be glad to assist you further.

I wish I could be your workshop helper to enjoy this project with you. Please keep posting more photos

Saluti,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
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post #219 of 410 Old 03-30-2015, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianni View Post
Hello Fabio,

You are doing great work and I have enjoyed your photos to see its progress

Fabio, please be patient with me while I get a little technical here and share some of my metallurgical engineering expertise, since this is a good opportunity to pay you back for all the help that you have given me in the past

To everyone else here, I apologize in advance and you can simply scroll down to the last paragraph or skip this post entirely

In 1995 the American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI) system for designating stainless steel grades in the USA was discontinued and replaced by the Unified Numbering System (UNS) for Metals, which both the American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) and the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) have standardized.

Likewise, AISI 630 is an older designation that unfortunately is still used by some material suppliers today (again, it was discontinued 20 years ago). Its current standard designation is UNS S17400. It is also commonly called 17-4 PH since it nominally contains 17% chromium, 4% nickel, and 4% copper and is precipitation heat treated to change its properties for different applications. It belongs to the family of precipitation hardening (PH) stainless steels and is typically supplied in the solution annealed heat treated condition (which I expect is what you have).

This material's mechanical properties will significantly change with its heat treatment where it can be precipitation hardened after solution annealing at 900F (480C) to 1400F (760C), in steps of 100F (38C), which are designated as H900, H1000, etc. The H900 condition will provide the highest tensile strength and hardness but with minimal ductility and formability, while the H1400 will provide lower tensile strength and hardness but with higher ductility and formability. The solution annealed condition will provide the lowest tensile strength and hardness but the maximum ductility and formability that the stainless steel has to offer.

It's common to fabricate components using this material in the solution annealed condition, then to heat treat it afterwards for achieve its desired properties for the specific application. However, it can also be left in the solution annealed condition after fabrication, which I expect to be just fine with your exhaust system.

When buying this type of material it's always useful to ask for the Materials Test Report (MTR) which will include its heat treatment condition so that you better know how to work with it. For example, if you get a batch of this stainless steel that was supplied in the H900 heat treated condition, you would probably be screaming at the supplier that they sold you bad material because it would bend in your press when you cold formed it and would end up cracking (breaking) since H900 does not have good ductility or formability

All of the PH stainless steels are prone to work hardening since they go through metallurgical phase transformations when cold formed, which would account for the dimensional instability you've already noticed.

This grade of stainless steel is weldable, but requires special attention. I have used it for many applications, for example, fabricating large industrial compressor impellers, and welded them successfully. If you have a need to weld this material, please send me a PM and I'd be glad to assist you further.

I wish I could be your workshop helper to enjoy this project with you. Please keep posting more photos

Saluti,
Gianni

Hi Gianni,
Than is for the good explanation, i'm interested to this things, in italy we usual call this steel 630 or 17-4 PH, i not know the other, but thanks i know .
We usually use the H1150 grade because it have, for us applications , good yield stress and. Very good KV charpy, and we never weld, we use also for high stress ed pins.
Today we was in Mestre to Lloyd's register for define materials for the 3500 ton Handling Stinger that we are doping for petrofac,.
....it is more enjoying to do exhaust, or in general work in cars .... AhahahahH
How is your F searching.....?
Best regards

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #220 of 410 Old 03-30-2015, 03:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi Gianni,
Than is for the good explanation, i'm interested to this things, in italy we usual call this steel 630 or 17-4 PH, i not know the other, but thanks i know .
We usually use the H1150 grade because it have, for us applications , good yield stress and. Very good KV charpy, and we never weld, we use also for high stress ed pins.
Today we was in Mestre to Lloyd's register for define materials for the 3500 ton Handling Stinger that we are doping for petrofac,.
....it is more enjoying to do exhaust, or in general work in cars .... AhahahahH
How is your F searching.....?
Best regards
Ciao Fabio,

I'm glad that my long message made sense to you. I should have sent you a PM instead (probably too boring for most members here) and I will remember to do it the next time

The H1150 condition for 17-4 PH (S17400) will provide a good balance between ductility/formability for fabrication and strength/impact properties for the application. However, in the H1150 condition it is not weldable without post weld heat treatment which would probably lead to distortion and loss of dimensional tolerances in your parts.

I am very interested in the 3500 ton handling stinger for Petrofac. If you can, please send me a PM about it.

Yes, I agree that workshop projects are more interesting than regular work most of the time

Saluti,
Gianni

1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello FHP; 1999 Ferrari 456M GT; 1996 Buick Riviera; 2008 Bentley GT; 2010 Lotus Evora; 1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV;
Past cars: 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster; 1974 Corvette Stingray.
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