F1 hydraulic tubing - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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F1 hydraulic tubing

My 575M has damaged hydraulic tubing for the F1 transmission. The OEM replacement is apparently VERY expensive and not the highest quality. Someone suggested replacing tubing with aircraft grade tubing - anyone have experience?

Vafa
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post #2 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vmansouri View Post
My 575M has damaged hydraulic tubing for the F1 transmission. The OEM replacement is apparently VERY expensive and not the highest quality. Someone suggested replacing tubing with aircraft grade tubing - anyone have experience?

Vafa
Hi Vafa,
but you 575 had lower mileage, they are already damaged?
Have been noticed in the service or you had see a leakage?
I not have experience with Ferrari F1 system flex hoses, but yes with other hydraulic system for my work, the important is to have same fitting at the end of pipes and to use a pipe that have a working pressure greater than the F1 system pressure.
For the oil compatibility I think they are no problem, the F1 oil is "Fiat Tutela CS Speed".
For otherside if you prefer have the car in original conditions ..... the OEM spare parts are the way ...
Did you are satisfied of your 575? Did she had other problems?

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #3 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 08:11 AM
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Vafa- Go to a good hydraulic shop and they should be able to duplicate the lines for a fraction of OEM cost. My techs did that here in Albuquerque for an owner's 360. Make sure and have the system bled after replacing the line(s).

Taz
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post #4 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Vafa,
but you 575 had lower mileage, they are already damaged?
Have been noticed in the service or you had see a leakage?
I not have experience with Ferrari F1 system flex hoses, but yes with other hydraulic system for my work, the important is to have same fitting at the end of pipes and to use a pipe that have a working pressure greater than the F1 system pressure.
For the oil compatibility I think they are no problem, the F1 oil is "Fiat Tutela CS Speed".
For otherside if you prefer have the car in original conditions ..... the OEM spare parts are the way ...
Did you are satisfied of your 575? Did she had other problems?
Taz - do you have any names or numbers of companies that do this work?

Fabio - the car is low mileage and gets serviced regularly. I was travelling at low speed when all of a sudden the car would not shift out of neutral. These hoses are not regularly inspected but the technician said all the other tubings had dry rot and also needed to be replaced. I suggest you have yours inspected at the next service.

Thanks,
V.
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post #5 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 08:52 AM
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Vafa- No, I do not, but there should be several shops in Tennessee that can make the hydraulic lines for you. They are used on farm implements, production machinery, and heavy trucks.

Taz
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post #6 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 08:56 AM
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...They are used on farm implements...
Say it isn't so. That will be the next "big discovery" over on the 'other site.' LOL!
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post #7 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 09:00 AM
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David- Yeah, kind of a come down. And you know farmers are not going to pay yellow box prices. Hydraulic lines are pretty simple devices.

Taz
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post #8 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
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Hydraulic lines are pretty simple devices.
I agree, they are or perhaps, better stated; they should be.. Yet, somehow or another Ferrari manages to find the most obscure fittings known to mankind.

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post #9 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vmansouri View Post
Fabio - the car is low mileage and gets serviced regularly. I was travelling at low speed when all of a sudden the car would not shift out of neutral. These hoses are not regularly inspected but the technician said all the other tubings had dry rot and also needed to be replaced. I suggest you have yours inspected at the next service.

Thanks,
V.

Hi Vafa,
my 575 have 42K km, she got the annual service just two weeks ago, the flex hoses of F1 hydraulic unit are in a very good condition.
If in the future they will be damaged, also I'll do them in a commercial hydraulic hoses with braided stainless steel, better and cheaper, I have seen on eurospares catalogue that the OEM it costs about 480 $ each !!!! crazy! ..but is a dream??!!
One commercial hose like that, i think not cost over 30 euro, perhaps 60 if use the stainless steel fittings...
First time that I will go to my offical dealer I will ask them about those....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #10 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Fabio - the parts cost to replace all 5 hoses is $5000 U.S.. Labor is an additional $1600. I am sending the original hoses to a Los Angeles aviation company to recreate but have no firm price. I would certainly entertain a European option if you know of one. The hoses have to be pressure tested before I will have them installed.

The absurd fun of Ferrari ownership!

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post #11 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 05:21 PM
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I'd give these people a shout

Goodridge Fluid Transfer Systems

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post #12 of 76 Old 04-30-2014, 09:06 PM
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Dave- I think my guys used a Goodridge distributor, but I forgot the name until you mentioned it.

Taz
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post #13 of 76 Old 05-01-2014, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vmansouri View Post
Fabio - the parts cost to replace all 5 hoses is $5000 U.S.. Labor is an additional $1600. I am sending the original hoses to a Los Angeles aviation company to recreate but have no firm price. I would certainly entertain a European option if you know of one. The hoses have to be pressure tested before I will have them installed.

The absurd fun of Ferrari ownership!

V.

Vafa,
the advise of Dave and Terry is good, i visited the goodridge web site, they have good products and 48 distributors on USA, one is in TN in Memphis, following the link.
RE Enterprises | Racing Eclipse | Machine | Fabrication
The flex hoses working pressure i think would be 200 bar, because the F1 system i think working at 100/150 bar, Terry can help me if my data is no correct.
For the fittings will be no problem, or are imperial size or metric size, Ferrari i think have used a metric size, probably he holed screws are m10x1, and the eye fitting is dia 10 mm.


I not know why Ferrari make that absurd things like that !!!!
Sure not because in Italy there are not big tubing choise...
The project of this system is by Magneti Marelli, the original name of project is "selespeed" , you can read on F1 some components ....
Selespeed is the official name used for some Alfa and Fiat of some years ago with this system options, with other settings ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #14 of 76 Old 05-05-2014, 12:40 PM
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Hi Vafa,
how are your tubing searching ....

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #15 of 76 Old 05-07-2014, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Update - nothing good.

The hoses and fittings are metric which are much harder to find. The aviation industry uses entirely imperial sized hoses and fittings. What I need is a company that has the equipment to put new metric hoses on old metric banjo fittings which seems simple. Goodrich was absolutely useless, now researching a few local companies.


The fun continues......
V.
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post #16 of 76 Old 05-07-2014, 03:45 PM
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These are the folks that may be able to help you.
Alfagomma S.p.a.

And their USA contact info is:
Alfagomma S.p.a.

Good luck!

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post #17 of 76 Old 05-07-2014, 05:33 PM
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A Parker Hydraulic Hose store should be able to help you out as well. Here are their metric banjos: Parker 43 Series Banjo Crimp Fittings. I know they sell metric hydraulic hose, but I couldn't find actual P/N's for it. Again, the guys who work at the Parker Stores should be able to help you.

FWIW, many hydraulic vendors consider a 14mm banjo to be interchangeable with a 9/16", and a 16mm banjo to be interchangeable with a 5/8". Unless the banjo and its bolt are machined with close tolerance "steps", you should be able to interchange these.

So, if your banjo bolts have either 14mm or 16mm threads, you could probably get imperial size lines made up with swaged on 9/16" or 5/8" banjos, still use your metric banjo bolts, and seal them off with either copper washers, Dowty's or Stat-o-Seals (my favorite). This might be a viable plan B for you if you strike out with the Parker guys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vmansouri View Post
Update - nothing good.

The hoses and fittings are metric which are much harder to find. The aviation industry uses entirely imperial sized hoses and fittings. What I need is a company that has the equipment to put new metric hoses on old metric banjo fittings which seems simple. Goodrich was absolutely useless, now researching a few local companies.


The fun continues......
V.

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post #18 of 76 Old 05-08-2014, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vmansouri View Post
Update - nothing good.

The hoses and fittings are metric which are much harder to find. The aviation industry uses entirely imperial sized hoses and fittings. What I need is a company that has the equipment to put new metric hoses on old metric banjo fittings which seems simple. Goodrich was absolutely useless, now researching a few local companies.


The fun continues......
V.
Hi Vafa,
David and John told correct advise, for my job I buy some items from both Alfagomma and Parker , they have both imperial size fittings and metric size fittings, at least in Italy ....
John,
i never dismounted my 575 F1 hoses fittings but i think they are M10 or 12, M14 and 16 is big, at first glance the key hexagon is 17 or 19.

Fabio

PRESENT: 575 F1 HGTC ROSSO CORSA 2004' - MB CLS 350 CGI 2007'
PAST: 550 ROSSO CORSA 1998' - MB CLK 240 2002'
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post #19 of 76 Old 05-08-2014, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi Vafa,
David and John told correct advise, for my job I buy some items from both Alfagomma and Parker , they have both imperial size fittings and metric size fittings, at least in Italy ....
John,
i never dismounted my 575 F1 hoses fittings but i think they are M10 or 12, M14 and 16 is big, at first glance the key hexagon is 17 or 19.
Fabio, over here, an M10 banjo bolt typically has an M13 or M14 hex, while an M12 banjo will have an M17 hex, and the M14 banjo will have an M19 hex. But then it depends on whether they're used on a German car (DIN fittings) or Japanese (JIS). Ferrari use a mix of sizes since some of their hydraulics are German (steering & brakes), and some are evidently Italian (this F1 system)......

For us, M10, M14, and M16 are the most common sizes of metric banjos, and the easiest to cross over and find hoses for.

I enjoy dabbling in plumbing, but it's always a challenge to recognise, then source the right fittings, especially with the brake & clutch systems.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #20 of 76 Old 05-08-2014, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Progress🎉👍👏

Thanks everyone for the great advice. The banjo fittings are 12mm internal diameter.

I sent the hoses to Goodridge in North Carolina (the other locations were unhelpful) and they said they can recreate the hoses in one week.....cost yet to be determined.

I will keep you posted on final outcome,
V
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