Help with alarm on 456m - car won't start, key stuck in ignition, door won't shut! - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 33 Old 02-26-2014, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Help with alarm on 456m - car won't start, key stuck in ignition, door won't shut!

Hi,

A few days ago I changed the batteries in my key fobs, which I thought was sensible, but I'm wondering if it's resulted in this major issue that I have. Or perhaps it's something else entirely different.

Basically, when I tried to unlock the car (1999 456m GTA), there was no response from the alarm system. After one press of the key fob, I tired the door - at first nothing, then the alarm went off. The first few times I tried this the alarm went off only briefly, and then stopped. It was about the third time that the alarm went off for longer - I left my apartment building garage to go get the master fob, and by the time I came back, the alarm had stopped.

I used the key on the drivers door, and that opened it, but when I put the key in the ignition, there was no response from the car. I seemed to hear a clicking sound from the inside back passenger side of the car, though I'm not sure what that was.

The driver's door wouldn't close properly, and even worse, the key wouldn't come out of the ignition!

I then tried to "manually" unlock the car by using the code. I tried this three times, but nothing changed. It's certainly possible I wasn't doing the unlocking method correctly, but I did my best to use instructions posted previously by Terry.

Any help would be hugely appreciated - as of right now the car is unlocked with the key in the ignition in a semi-public garage, which is rather concerning. Admittedly if I can't get the car started, I don't imagine a random person walking by could, but it's still a worry!

Thank you for any guidance,

Stefan
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post #2 of 33 Old 02-26-2014, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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PS - I realized I hadn't introduced myself properly to this forum (I had on ferrarichat) - apologies for this, in my haste I thought this was the forum I'd been on.
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post #3 of 33 Old 02-26-2014, 09:19 PM
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Stefan- Welcome to Ferrari Life. Sounds like you ran the battery down with the alarm. Even though it does have its own self-charging batteries in the siren, that circuit can discharge the main battery as it goes off if it sounds off long enough.

Changing the batteries in the fob will not cause a problem, even if you put it in backwards. Check and make sure that did not happen, there are little + and - signs in the compartment.

If the door is locked and the alarm is armed, opening the door with the key will set the alarm off, and even trying to open the locked door may set it off.

The door is difficult to close because the battery is dead and the window is not winding itself down to allow easy closing.

Open the hood, use the battery disconnect switch, and charge the battery with a regular charger, not a low voltage maintainer.

Not sure why the key is not releasing, but that probably has to do with the battery being dead. You probably cannot remove the key unless you are in park or neutral, and she cannot tell which gear she is in with a dead battery.

You may get some more alarm sound when you reconnect the battery after charging. Let us know if you have any luck and we will give you the procedure for a run cycle after she is working again. Have your good fob standing by to disarm the alarm and the immobilizer.

Taz
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Last edited by tazandjan; 02-27-2014 at 08:45 AM.
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post #4 of 33 Old 02-26-2014, 09:31 PM
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I'm guessing the steering wheel is turned and loaded against the lock, not along the key to rotate back to "0" and then slide out. As long as the gear selector is in "P" or "N", it will come out. Conversely, if you do not have battery power, you cannot get it out of "P".

It also sounds to me as though the root of all your issues right now si a dead car battery. Get that addressed and you should be OK.


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post #5 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you very much for your help. Up until I received the car she'd been on a trickle charger (then it was on a transporter for about 10 days), and I last drove it for about 45 minutes with no problems on Sunday.

As the car wasn't responding to the fobs when I first went down to try and start it (before the alarms went off), does that mean there was a car battery issue at that point, or is that likely to be a different unknown problem?

In terms of chargers, would something like this suffice?

thanks again, the advice here is absolutely invaluable.

Stefan
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post #6 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by src456 View Post
As the car wasn't responding to the fobs when I first went down to try and start it (before the alarms went off), does that mean there was a car battery issue at that point?
Sounds like your battery was dead from the outset.

The charger you're looking at will certainly charge your battery. However, I would not recommend using the 200 Amp setting while the battery is connected.

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post #7 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 05:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the advice .. I was wondering if just calling AAA to come out to help / do it with their equipment would be ok? After posting here I had a dream last night about a mechanic coming and taking the car away, quoting an exorbitant amount to fix her ....
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post #8 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 08:55 AM
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Stefan- Do not allow anyone to jump the car, so AAA is probably not a great idea. You do not need that expensive or heavy duty a battery charger, but if you have enough space, that one would certainly do it. Probably better off, though, with a small portable you can pick up at Sears or one of the auto parts stores for less than $100. Something like this:

Schumacher SE-5212A 2/10/50 Amp Automatic Handheld Battery Charger : Amazon.com : Automotive

It starts to sound like you may have a bad battery. You can take it out (loosen coolant tank and set aside to remove) and take it to an Interstate dealer and see if it is dead. If so, an MTP-91/T6 makes a good replacement with vent hose fitted. The earlier version MTP-91 is what is in my 575M.

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post #9 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 08:58 AM
 
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After watching Victory by Design and reading about the 456M in Forza, I wondered if it would be fruitful, or even possible, to strip out the gadgets and try to remake them into simpler V12 GT's.
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post #10 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 09:05 AM
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Unfortunately, those gadgets are required to make one run right now.

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Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #11 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Stefan- Do not allow anyone to jump the car, so AAA is probably not a great idea. You do not need that expensive or heavy duty a battery charger, but if you have enough space, that one would certainly do it. Probably better off, though, with a small portable you can pick up at Sears or one of the auto parts stores for less than $100. Something like this:

Schumacher SE-5212A 2/10/50 Amp Automatic Handheld Battery Charger : Amazon.com : Automotive

It starts to sound like you may have a bad battery. You can take it out (loosen coolant tank and set aside to remove) and take it to an Interstate dealer and see if it is dead. If so, an MTP-91/T6 makes a good replacement with vent hose fitted. The earlier version MTP-91 is what is in my 575M.
Thanks Terry - I've ordered that battery charger that you referred to.

I wonder whether this particular car has some sort of problem with batteries - I see from the service history that in November 2012 there was something done to the battery by a mechanic (I don't think it was a full battery replace - I have to check the files I have). In August 2011 it had a new battery put in - apparently an "85 month" one, which evidently hasn't lasted nearly that long.
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post #12 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by src456 View Post
I wonder whether this particular car has some sort of problem with batteries - I see from the service history that in November 2012 there was something done to the battery by a mechanic (I don't think it was a full battery replace - I have to check the files I have). In August 2011 it had a new battery put in - apparently an "85 month" one, which evidently hasn't lasted nearly that long.
Any aftermarket electrical widget should be suspect, ie dealer installed radar detectors, etc.

The alternator diodes could also be leaking to earth

You can measure the "parasitic drain" on the battery with ignition off and then by opening fuses one at a time can begin to isolate where the drain is occurring..

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post #13 of 33 Old 03-01-2014, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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I now have the battery charger - but the garage that the car is in doesn't have any electrical outlets nearby. So I guess I'm left with the only real option being to remove the battery and charge it. I can see that the coolant tank is in the way, and will need to be loosened (as Terry had mentioned).

I've never undertaken something mechanical like this before - does anyone have any tips or guides? For tools all I have is a 40 piece socket set, but could go out and buy anything that's needed.

Cheers
Stefan
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post #14 of 33 Old 03-01-2014, 02:11 PM
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First of all turn off the battery master switch before disconnecting the terminals.

You do not have to disconnect any hoses, just undo the nuts securing the tank and lift out of the way. You can leave the coolant in the tank.

The rest is straightforward

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post #15 of 33 Old 03-01-2014, 02:18 PM
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Stefan- That should do it, along with a screwdriver if the terminals are really tight. Just take the tank loose from its mount and set it aside. No need to disconnect the hoses. Turn the battery disconnect switch to off. Remove the ground cable and set it on an old towel. Disconnect the positive cable and set aside on an old towel. Remove the bolt holding the battery hold-down shown below.

Disconnect the battery vent hose. Lift the battery out, being careful because it is very heavy. Since you are removing it, I would actually recommend taking it to a parts or battery shop and having them test it to see if it is shot. If shot, buy a new battery like the Interstate MTP-91/T6 and make sure you use a vent hose. If not shot, you have a charger now and can charge it yourself or have the shop charge it. Reverse for installation, and I put battery terminal spray on mine when I change batteries or check the terminals.

You can download 456 and 456M workshop manuals for free from ferraridatabase.com, but they do not go into much detail on removing the battery.
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Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #16 of 33 Old 03-01-2014, 02:51 PM
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I prefer anti corrosion pads to spray, they seem to last forever.

NOCO MC303S Anti-Corrosion Battery Terminal Protector for Top and Side Post Battery : Amazon.com : Automotive

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post #17 of 33 Old 03-01-2014, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks very much for the instructions - unfortunately I'm still stuck on removing the coolant tank from its mount. the top two nuts were easy enough to loosen, but there's one on the bottom left (near the battery), that I just can't seem to get to. The socket wrench I have is too long, and I tried with a small adjustable wrench, but it's extremely difficult to get in the small space.

I know they say a bad workman blames his tools, but I guess I need to buy an even smaller socket wrench to get in there?

Cheers
Stefan
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post #18 of 33 Old 03-01-2014, 05:00 PM
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A 10mm ratcheting type GearWrench or 1/4" drive, 10mm socket works well on that one.

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post #19 of 33 Old 03-01-2014, 10:17 PM
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John- Affirmative, or very slowly with an open end wrench. There should be one in the tool kit for the 456.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #20 of 33 Old 03-02-2014, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you to all for the help so far - without it I would be completely lost. I just managed to get the battery out of the car, so at least for me, that felt like an achievement!

The battery is in fact a Interstate MTP-91, I didn't see a vent hose on it however. I'm going to head to a store now to get it tested.

Cheers
Stefan
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