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575M suspension and handling upgrade?

10K views 32 replies 7 participants last post by  cribbj 
#1 ·
Hi all, while still enjoying what has turned out to be a great summer, I am starting to think about what maintenance to undertake this winter on no.129324. Having blitzed through the 40,000 mile marker earlier this year and also participated in an epic Nurburgring run,a major service is on the cards as well as a bunch of underhood items. I also am looking at some cosmetic work to the exterior.

However, I discovered recently that one of my front shocks is leaking which can probably be traced back to some of the Nurburgring's notorious curbing. It's not terminal but needs addressing and it occurred to me that it might be interesting to look at what upgrades might be available nowadays to hone the handling further.

I would be interested in thoughts on not just the shocks but what might be the optimum suspension setup for the 575M.....

Cheers
Michael
 
#2 ·
I don't believe you will get a better street setup than was supplied on the car originally. Novitec Rosso sells a coilover kit which is developed by KW Suspension if you wanted to go that route. In my experience their shocks are very bouncy on the street and only really work well on smooth track surfaces. I'm not a huge fan of KW's shock valving.

If you were wanting to do something exceptional with an aftermarket and tunable coilover system, I recommend looking at Moton or Ohlins entry level systems. You will need someone capable and familiar with these systems to tune them right and maximize performance though.
 
#3 ·
Michael- Same advice I have given to dozens of 575M owners:

1) Change to FHP hydrailic steering ECU from Dave and John Skunkworks, plug and play
2) Change your shock absorber ECU from 183960 to 201674 or 201673, plug and play
3) Add stiffer rear anti-roll bar (FHP NLA, HGTC prohibitively expensive, after market 19-21 mm recommended, standard is 17 mm, swap and play
4) Change to stiffer springs like those for FHP/HGTC, latter slightly stiffer, OE very expensive and easy to get custom wound for much less, requires 4 wheel ride height and suspenson alignment
5) Change rear shocks if you can find a cheap set.

Do one thing, test and see how you like it. After fitting 201674 and the FHP steering ECU, you may be happy.

FHP and HGTC pdfs attached for more info.

Josh is correct, Mannesmann-Sachs shocks are the best out there and one leaking is very unusual.

Yell if you have questions.
 

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#4 ·
Michael, we can provide steering ECU's either cloned to the FHP ECU, or with a more custom curve - whatever the user/owner wants.

PM me if interested.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies guys, I figured you all would be early respondents on this one, and I guess I'm not surprised at your feedback either.

Current set up is
FHP Springs
21mm anti-roll bar
Shock absorber ECU I will have to confirm but am fairly sure it is either 201674 or 201673.
Hydraulic steering ECU I will have to check which one I have.
Shock absorbers I assume are Mannesmann-Sachs shocks but I will confirm.

So as I have to admit I was far from unhappy with the setup, it seems that subject to checking the ECU's my issue is purely a leaky shock absorber. Can these be fixed or are they still available? And would you do the rears when replacing the fronts if they are?

A set of Hill Engineering rear 20 or 25mm spacers and Michelin PSS's will be going on as well so these alone will probably make a fair difference.

Cheers for now,
Michael
 
#6 ·
Michael- With that set-up, I would just replace the damaged shock, which is available. Think I know where I can find a used one (my techs) for a very reasonable cost. Maybe even rear ones because an FHP donor car has the Novitec suspension. Mannesman-Sachs shocks are generally indestructible, but you found an exception.

Rears only if you get a really good price on the updated ones, though.

If you have an updated shock ECU already, nothing else necessary. If 183960, need an update. In the cheek panel on the passenger side for LHD and likely mirror image for RHD.

FHP steering ECU is a big improvement for 550, 456M and 575M. Dave and John are the best source.

Go for 25 mm HE Type 2 spacers. I have them on my car. Hardened inserts and you do not need longer wheel bolts. Doubt you will notice much difference in handling, but they look better. Have titanium wheel bolts, too, used are pretty cheap ($750 for me) and make up for the spacer weight.

PSS tires are the best available.

If you want a squeaky brake upgrade, I have a set of OEM, take-off FHP pads. Bought before my ceramics were fitted.
 
#7 ·
I may be a bit over analytical here but, I'm pretty strict about doing things in "pairs" or "sets" when applicable. Although you may not need to address the entire shock set, I would at least send both fronts out to be dyno'd and confirm that after repair of the LF, they are operating uniformly. If they aren't have the RF shock overhauled as well top maintain balance of the chassis best as possible.
 
#14 ·
Hi Josh, I missed this one, but agree completely, pairs or sets is the right way to go. I'll check the codes on the existing shocks today as my FHP set up was dealer retro fitted in '03 or '04 and I am curious to know which units I have. If I understand correctly from Terry there is an earlier and later version of the Mannesmann-Sachs shocks but I am not sure if the later were upgraded in some way, possibly in conjunction with the updated ECU?

Cheers
Michael
 
#8 ·
Josh- Are you aware of anybody that overhauls Sachs shocks? I know Bilstein and Delta Vee do Bilsteins, but Sachs need overhauling so seldom, I am unaware of anybody who does that.

I think I know where two low mileage front shocks are available for a very good price.
 
#9 ·
As you mention, it's not a service that is frequently needed so I don't have a trusted source in place. You could contact Performance Shock, Inc in NorCal and inquire with them. I would believe they would be the best chance. Unless one of the others knows of a source. Otherwise replace in pairs.
 
#10 ·
#11 ·
Hi Terry, thanks for the feedback on the HE spacers - i was wondering whether to go the whole hog for the 25mm units and now i know - order going in tomorrow.

I will check the ECU's and get the car up on the rack tomorrow to look closely at the shocks but I think it might be wise to grab those front shocks from your tech either way. I'll PM you tomorrow.

Brian, I'll PM you as well once I have the existing steering ECU code as well.

Cheers
Michael
 
#12 ·
Hi Terry, thanks for the feedback on the HE spacers - i was wondering whether to go the whole hog for the 25mm units and now i know - order going in tomorrow.

I will check the ECU's and get the car up on the rack tomorrow to look closely at the shocks but I think it might be wise to grab those front shocks from your tech either way. I'll PM you tomorrow.

Brian, I'll PM you as well once I have the existing steering ECU code as well.

Cheers
Michael
Michael could you post some before and after pic's of the rear wheels. I'm thinking about doing the same
 
#13 ·
Hi Ron, I will indeed. I'm interested to see if there will be any discernible differences besides aesthetically improving the stance of the car from the rear. I am guessing adding the spacers will not make much difference except at the upper limits where the wider track may add some rear end grip reducing fishtailng under heavy acceleration out of corners. I'll add the spacers first and then the tires to have a comparison to the existing set up which includes PZeros. Then any shock and ECU changes thereafter. I'm also wondering if dropping the ride height a further 5-10mm from what is the FHP setting now, would add to handling performance or just harshen up the ride too much.
Ultimately I am looking for the optimum grip and handling setup, but not at the expense of having my spine compressed to dust.

Cheers
Michael
 
#15 · (Edited)
Michael- No, the new rear shocks were not done in conjunction with any shock ECU update. Front shocks remained the same on all 575Ms until late 2004, when they received new shocks and mount hardware about the time the HGTC was introduced. Here is a list of all the updates so you can see yourself.

Incidentally, I do not have your car in my database. If you give me the Assembly Number and basics of colors, I will add her to the list. Would be noted as FHP Upgrade and seems like she was a manual shifter.

If you want to lower the car slightly, Fabio gave us the HGTC ride height and alignment numbers, so we finally have those. About the same in the rear for high speed stability, but the front is lowered a bit. Need to put those in the technical thread.

Also attached is the basic story on 575M Shock Aborber ECUs, of which there were quite a few.
 

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#16 ·
Hi Terry,

First thing my details are 575M 3 pedal,first delivered 4th Nov 2002 SN 129324 and AN 46347.

I had a look at the shock absorber ECU today and it is #197211. So from the doc you posted it seems my shock absorber ECU was changed from the original 183960 ECU to the later 197211 version. My question is are the 201673 and 201674 ECU's a further upgrade from the 197211 version or is there little discernible difference to warrant upgrading again.

I talked to my tech today and he suggested replacing the front shocks as a pair as has been suggested here so I'll PM you on those. He did ask are the shock assemblies complete with springs etc as they would have come out as one unit?

In the mean time I'll look closer at the other doc's you posted.

Cheers
Michael
 
#17 ·
Michael- 197211 is great for a 575M. I would not change it. My 201674 was originally packaged as an FHP shock ECU and 197211, even though theoretically no such thing exists.

Shocks and springs are separate items on Ferraris. He must be thinking of McPherson struts. They sold the springs very quickly, as you can imagine.

Starting to look like your 575M does not really need anything. I will be surprised if you do not already have the steering ECU, too.
 

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#18 ·
Hi Terry, so we can confirm that Shock absorber ECU #197211 is the Fiorano Version. That is good news. I would not be surprised if most of our early UK 575M fraternity had the same upgrade done as the media spin at launch pushed the dealers into retro fitting the Fiorano pack or parts there of for any customers who leaned on them.

Where is the Steering ECU located....I know I'm being lazy and should check the WSM but I am in Monza on serious business this weekend!:thumbsup:

On the shock and spring assembly, I think my tech was purely thinking if the springs are still with the shocks it would be wise to take them too for obvious reasons.

Cheers from sunny Monza,
Michael
 
#19 ·
Michael- Steering ECU is left of the steering column on LHD 575Ms, mirror image on RHD? Actually no clue on RHD, but this is what it looks like.
 

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#20 · (Edited)
Michael- According to the bulletin on 575M FHP and the parts catalog, there is no FHP shock absorber ECU. See attachment.

I have seen reported OE FHP 575Ms fitted with 183960, 201673, 197211, and 201674, plus some with post 52556 ECUs. Even the HGTC upgrade kits did not include an upgraded shock ECU, even though OE HGTCs have one. Too many worries about compatibility, possibly.

So why mine was marked that way, I have no idea. There was a 550 shock absorber ECU for the Bilstein shocks, but not for the 575M's Sachs shocks.

At any rate, 197211 or 201674 is as good as it gets for pre-52556 575Ms, so you are set. Same thing I have in mine.
 

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#21 ·
Ok so missed out on the shocks that Terry's tech had.....it's all in the timing.....so if anyone knows of a pair of new or low mileage M-Sachs FHP front shocks I'm interested.

Cheers
Michael
 
#23 ·
Hi Terry, just to be clear are the shock absorbers in the standard cars and the FHP cars the same?

Cheers
Michael
 
#24 ·
Michael- Affirmative, there are no FHP shocks, just whatever was fitted to the standard cars at time of assembly.

The HGTC had a half set of specific shocks with the other half set shared with very late 575Ms. Mounting hardware completely different from early shocks.
 
#25 ·
575M - HGTC Parts procured!

So I went the whole hog and bought the shocks and springs, shock ECU and anti roll bar from the Autralian car. Hopefully we can make all that work! Taz you mention the standing warning light from the shock ECU for anything pre Assembly Number 52556. Mine is Assembly number 49620. Will it make a difference if the HGTC shocks are fitted as well?

I attach a photo of the steering ECU from a RHD car. One relay is removed to show the steering ECU (I think the green flasher relay?). A new Skunkworks ECU is now in place!

I suspect it will be early next year before we get around to fitting the new parts, but I will report back once we have it sorted.

Simon
 

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#26 ·
Hi Simon, so you're the one who beat me to the shocks! I understand the shocks are the same on all the 575M's but the springs are different on std, FHP and HGTC, although others here should be able to confirm.

Did you buy the HGTC setup to upgrade you car and are you replacing a standard or FHP setup? If the above assumption is correct I would be interested in one of the sets of front shocks depending on mileage.

Cheers
Michael
 
#27 ·
Shock Deal!

Michael

I think we can do a deal on shocks. My car has 24500 miles on it and the Australian car only 19170km apparently.

Once the parts arrive and I have a chance to look at everything I will make contact again and we can discuss. It does seem as though half of the HGTC shocks are different (see Taz's post earlier). I am also unsure what the "mounting hardware" refers to!? Anyway once parts are in hand all will be revealed.

Simon
 
#28 ·
Michael- The HGTC shocks and mounts are different from the standard 575M, except for very late models after Assembly Number 55769 (SN 138XXX), which share a half set of shocks, like Simon said. All those late 575Ms had the new shock hyperblocks, bushings etc. You cannot mount HGTC shocks on early 575Ms without the special bushings and mounts for those shocks. Looks like that set had all those included, though, and if not, Simon needs to ask for them. Sounds like you missed out on Aaron's shocks. Funny they sit there for a couple of years with no interest and then two owners compete for them. The FHP springs and rear anti-roll bar went very quickly, as did the 8 piston Novitec front brakes.

Simon- The 575Ms before 52556 do not have the steering position sensor that sends a lead into turn signal to the shock absorber ECU to tighten up the outside actuator. The late shock ECUs, like the HGTC one, look for that signal. If not present, a suspension warning lamp illuminates. Works fine, just gives a lamp.

Look in the parts catalog for all the info on the 55769 and later shock hardware required to mount on early 575Ms.
 

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