575M suspension and handling upgrade? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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575M suspension and handling upgrade?

Hi all, while still enjoying what has turned out to be a great summer, I am starting to think about what maintenance to undertake this winter on no.129324. Having blitzed through the 40,000 mile marker earlier this year and also participated in an epic Nurburgring run,a major service is on the cards as well as a bunch of underhood items. I also am looking at some cosmetic work to the exterior.

However, I discovered recently that one of my front shocks is leaking which can probably be traced back to some of the Nurburgring's notorious curbing. It's not terminal but needs addressing and it occurred to me that it might be interesting to look at what upgrades might be available nowadays to hone the handling further.

I would be interested in thoughts on not just the shocks but what might be the optimum suspension setup for the 575M.....

Cheers
Michael

Current Fcars: 360 Modena
Gone but not forgotten: 360 Spider, 575M, F430.
Other stuff: '71 Holden GTS Monaro, '80 BMW Alpina B9, '74 Porsche Targa, Caterham, MB CL500, Land Rover Discovery.
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post #2 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 11:36 AM
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I don't believe you will get a better street setup than was supplied on the car originally. Novitec Rosso sells a coilover kit which is developed by KW Suspension if you wanted to go that route. In my experience their shocks are very bouncy on the street and only really work well on smooth track surfaces. I'm not a huge fan of KW's shock valving.

If you were wanting to do something exceptional with an aftermarket and tunable coilover system, I recommend looking at Moton or Ohlins entry level systems. You will need someone capable and familiar with these systems to tune them right and maximize performance though.


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post #3 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 12:14 PM
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Michael- Same advice I have given to dozens of 575M owners:

1) Change to FHP hydrailic steering ECU from Dave and John Skunkworks, plug and play
2) Change your shock absorber ECU from 183960 to 201674 or 201673, plug and play
3) Add stiffer rear anti-roll bar (FHP NLA, HGTC prohibitively expensive, after market 19-21 mm recommended, standard is 17 mm, swap and play
4) Change to stiffer springs like those for FHP/HGTC, latter slightly stiffer, OE very expensive and easy to get custom wound for much less, requires 4 wheel ride height and suspenson alignment
5) Change rear shocks if you can find a cheap set.

Do one thing, test and see how you like it. After fitting 201674 and the FHP steering ECU, you may be happy.

FHP and HGTC pdfs attached for more info.

Josh is correct, Mannesmann-Sachs shocks are the best out there and one leaking is very unusual.

Yell if you have questions.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf 575M Fiorano Package.pdf (211.4 KB, 251 views)
File Type: pdf TI 2005 1265 HGTC 575M.pdf (1.23 MB, 197 views)

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Present: 575M 135171
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post #4 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 01:12 PM
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Michael, we can provide steering ECU's either cloned to the FHP ECU, or with a more custom curve - whatever the user/owner wants.

PM me if interested.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #5 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies guys, I figured you all would be early respondents on this one, and I guess I'm not surprised at your feedback either.

Current set up is
FHP Springs
21mm anti-roll bar
Shock absorber ECU I will have to confirm but am fairly sure it is either 201674 or 201673.
Hydraulic steering ECU I will have to check which one I have.
Shock absorbers I assume are Mannesmann-Sachs shocks but I will confirm.

So as I have to admit I was far from unhappy with the setup, it seems that subject to checking the ECU's my issue is purely a leaky shock absorber. Can these be fixed or are they still available? And would you do the rears when replacing the fronts if they are?

A set of Hill Engineering rear 20 or 25mm spacers and Michelin PSS's will be going on as well so these alone will probably make a fair difference.

Cheers for now,
Michael

Current Fcars: 360 Modena
Gone but not forgotten: 360 Spider, 575M, F430.
Other stuff: '71 Holden GTS Monaro, '80 BMW Alpina B9, '74 Porsche Targa, Caterham, MB CL500, Land Rover Discovery.
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post #6 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 06:05 PM
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Michael- With that set-up, I would just replace the damaged shock, which is available. Think I know where I can find a used one (my techs) for a very reasonable cost. Maybe even rear ones because an FHP donor car has the Novitec suspension. Mannesman-Sachs shocks are generally indestructible, but you found an exception.

Rears only if you get a really good price on the updated ones, though.

If you have an updated shock ECU already, nothing else necessary. If 183960, need an update. In the cheek panel on the passenger side for LHD and likely mirror image for RHD.

FHP steering ECU is a big improvement for 550, 456M and 575M. Dave and John are the best source.

Go for 25 mm HE Type 2 spacers. I have them on my car. Hardened inserts and you do not need longer wheel bolts. Doubt you will notice much difference in handling, but they look better. Have titanium wheel bolts, too, used are pretty cheap ($750 for me) and make up for the spacer weight.

PSS tires are the best available.

If you want a squeaky brake upgrade, I have a set of OEM, take-off FHP pads. Bought before my ceramics were fitted.

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #7 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 06:37 PM
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I may be a bit over analytical here but, I'm pretty strict about doing things in "pairs" or "sets" when applicable. Although you may not need to address the entire shock set, I would at least send both fronts out to be dyno'd and confirm that after repair of the LF, they are operating uniformly. If they aren't have the RF shock overhauled as well top maintain balance of the chassis best as possible.


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post #8 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 08:20 PM
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Josh- Are you aware of anybody that overhauls Sachs shocks? I know Bilstein and Delta Vee do Bilsteins, but Sachs need overhauling so seldom, I am unaware of anybody who does that.

I think I know where two low mileage front shocks are available for a very good price.

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Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #9 of 33 Old 09-05-2013, 07:21 AM
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As you mention, it's not a service that is frequently needed so I don't have a trusted source in place. You could contact Performance Shock, Inc in NorCal and inquire with them. I would believe they would be the best chance. Unless one of the others knows of a source. Otherwise replace in pairs.


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post #10 of 33 Old 09-05-2013, 09:23 AM
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Michael- Two new rear shocks for less than half price. My techs still have the two very low mileage front shocks that came off a 575M that got the Novitec suspension and brakes. $1000 for the pair. They have the rear shocks, too, but they are the older versions you already have.

Ferrari 575 M Rear Shock New OE Pair 190996 | eBay

Ferrari 575M Front Shock Absorber 182989 | eBay

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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #11 of 33 Old 09-05-2013, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Terry, thanks for the feedback on the HE spacers - i was wondering whether to go the whole hog for the 25mm units and now i know - order going in tomorrow.

I will check the ECU's and get the car up on the rack tomorrow to look closely at the shocks but I think it might be wise to grab those front shocks from your tech either way. I'll PM you tomorrow.

Brian, I'll PM you as well once I have the existing steering ECU code as well.

Cheers
Michael

Current Fcars: 360 Modena
Gone but not forgotten: 360 Spider, 575M, F430.
Other stuff: '71 Holden GTS Monaro, '80 BMW Alpina B9, '74 Porsche Targa, Caterham, MB CL500, Land Rover Discovery.
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post #12 of 33 Old 09-05-2013, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 575er View Post
Hi Terry, thanks for the feedback on the HE spacers - i was wondering whether to go the whole hog for the 25mm units and now i know - order going in tomorrow.

I will check the ECU's and get the car up on the rack tomorrow to look closely at the shocks but I think it might be wise to grab those front shocks from your tech either way. I'll PM you tomorrow.

Brian, I'll PM you as well once I have the existing steering ECU code as well.

Cheers
Michael
Michael could you post some before and after pic's of the rear wheels. I'm thinking about doing the same
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post #13 of 33 Old 09-05-2013, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Ron, I will indeed. I'm interested to see if there will be any discernible differences besides aesthetically improving the stance of the car from the rear. I am guessing adding the spacers will not make much difference except at the upper limits where the wider track may add some rear end grip reducing fishtailng under heavy acceleration out of corners. I'll add the spacers first and then the tires to have a comparison to the existing set up which includes PZeros. Then any shock and ECU changes thereafter. I'm also wondering if dropping the ride height a further 5-10mm from what is the FHP setting now, would add to handling performance or just harshen up the ride too much.
Ultimately I am looking for the optimum grip and handling setup, but not at the expense of having my spine compressed to dust.

Cheers
Michael

Current Fcars: 360 Modena
Gone but not forgotten: 360 Spider, 575M, F430.
Other stuff: '71 Holden GTS Monaro, '80 BMW Alpina B9, '74 Porsche Targa, Caterham, MB CL500, Land Rover Discovery.
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post #14 of 33 Old 09-05-2013, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSofVirginia View Post
I may be a bit over analytical here but, I'm pretty strict about doing things in "pairs" or "sets" when applicable. Although you may not need to address the entire shock set, I would at least send both fronts out to be dyno'd and confirm that after repair of the LF, they are operating uniformly. If they aren't have the RF shock overhauled as well top maintain balance of the chassis best as possible.
Hi Josh, I missed this one, but agree completely, pairs or sets is the right way to go. I'll check the codes on the existing shocks today as my FHP set up was dealer retro fitted in '03 or '04 and I am curious to know which units I have. If I understand correctly from Terry there is an earlier and later version of the Mannesmann-Sachs shocks but I am not sure if the later were upgraded in some way, possibly in conjunction with the updated ECU?

Cheers
Michael

Current Fcars: 360 Modena
Gone but not forgotten: 360 Spider, 575M, F430.
Other stuff: '71 Holden GTS Monaro, '80 BMW Alpina B9, '74 Porsche Targa, Caterham, MB CL500, Land Rover Discovery.
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post #15 of 33 Old 09-06-2013, 09:14 AM
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Michael- No, the new rear shocks were not done in conjunction with any shock ECU update. Front shocks remained the same on all 575Ms until late 2004, when they received new shocks and mount hardware about the time the HGTC was introduced. Here is a list of all the updates so you can see yourself.

Incidentally, I do not have your car in my database. If you give me the Assembly Number and basics of colors, I will add her to the list. Would be noted as FHP Upgrade and seems like she was a manual shifter.

If you want to lower the car slightly, Fabio gave us the HGTC ride height and alignment numbers, so we finally have those. About the same in the rear for high speed stability, but the front is lowered a bit. Need to put those in the technical thread.

Also attached is the basic story on 575M Shock Aborber ECUs, of which there were quite a few.
Attached Files
File Type: doc 575M 575 SA Updates Rev 1.8.doc (45.0 KB, 130 views)
File Type: doc 575M 575 SA VIN and Assembly Numbers Rev 2.10.doc (251.5 KB, 116 views)
File Type: doc 575M Shock Absorber ECUs.doc (33.5 KB, 168 views)

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Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.

Last edited by tazandjan; 09-06-2013 at 09:21 AM.
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post #16 of 33 Old 09-06-2013, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Terry,

First thing my details are 575M 3 pedal,first delivered 4th Nov 2002 SN 129324 and AN 46347.

I had a look at the shock absorber ECU today and it is #197211. So from the doc you posted it seems my shock absorber ECU was changed from the original 183960 ECU to the later 197211 version. My question is are the 201673 and 201674 ECU's a further upgrade from the 197211 version or is there little discernible difference to warrant upgrading again.

I talked to my tech today and he suggested replacing the front shocks as a pair as has been suggested here so I'll PM you on those. He did ask are the shock assemblies complete with springs etc as they would have come out as one unit?

In the mean time I'll look closer at the other doc's you posted.

Cheers
Michael

Current Fcars: 360 Modena
Gone but not forgotten: 360 Spider, 575M, F430.
Other stuff: '71 Holden GTS Monaro, '80 BMW Alpina B9, '74 Porsche Targa, Caterham, MB CL500, Land Rover Discovery.
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post #17 of 33 Old 09-06-2013, 08:34 PM
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Michael- 197211 is great for a 575M. I would not change it. My 201674 was originally packaged as an FHP shock ECU and 197211, even though theoretically no such thing exists.

Shocks and springs are separate items on Ferraris. He must be thinking of McPherson struts. They sold the springs very quickly, as you can imagine.

Starting to look like your 575M does not really need anything. I will be surprised if you do not already have the steering ECU, too.
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Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #18 of 33 Old 09-07-2013, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Terry, so we can confirm that Shock absorber ECU #197211 is the Fiorano Version. That is good news. I would not be surprised if most of our early UK 575M fraternity had the same upgrade done as the media spin at launch pushed the dealers into retro fitting the Fiorano pack or parts there of for any customers who leaned on them.

Where is the Steering ECU located....I know I'm being lazy and should check the WSM but I am in Monza on serious business this weekend!

On the shock and spring assembly, I think my tech was purely thinking if the springs are still with the shocks it would be wise to take them too for obvious reasons.

Cheers from sunny Monza,
Michael

Current Fcars: 360 Modena
Gone but not forgotten: 360 Spider, 575M, F430.
Other stuff: '71 Holden GTS Monaro, '80 BMW Alpina B9, '74 Porsche Targa, Caterham, MB CL500, Land Rover Discovery.
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post #19 of 33 Old 09-07-2013, 08:37 PM
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Michael- Steering ECU is left of the steering column on LHD 575Ms, mirror image on RHD? Actually no clue on RHD, but this is what it looks like.
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Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #20 of 33 Old 09-08-2013, 08:50 PM
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Michael- According to the bulletin on 575M FHP and the parts catalog, there is no FHP shock absorber ECU. See attachment.

I have seen reported OE FHP 575Ms fitted with 183960, 201673, 197211, and 201674, plus some with post 52556 ECUs. Even the HGTC upgrade kits did not include an upgraded shock ECU, even though OE HGTCs have one. Too many worries about compatibility, possibly.

So why mine was marked that way, I have no idea. There was a 550 shock absorber ECU for the Bilstein shocks, but not for the 575M's Sachs shocks.

At any rate, 197211 or 201674 is as good as it gets for pre-52556 575Ms, so you are set. Same thing I have in mine.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf 575M Fiorano Package.pdf (211.4 KB, 211 views)

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.

Last edited by tazandjan; 09-09-2013 at 02:03 PM.
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