550's are a 'hold' then! - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 121 Old 07-01-2013, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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550's are a 'hold' then!

As i subscribe to classic and sportscar magazine-certainly one of, if not the most influential periodicals i thought i would share-this month there is a seperate booklet about the car market. After several experts commented on the cars we should be buying one car came out well above all others, nominated by 3 seperate people. "Foremost among them was the 550Maranello. Several picked it in the 15 to 50k catagory and the 50k to 100k catagory-many pinpointing it as a supremely under-appreciated car with great potential to go up in price. Final words go to dealer Gregor Fiskin-"The 550Maranello is one of the greatest front engined Ferrari's ever made; and the true spiritual successor of the Daytona and 275gtb. If they follow the same investment trajectory as those 2, then they are currently a great buy". Mine is staying put!! I know we should just enjoy the cars and if they go up its an added bonus, but its nice to offset the cost of all that v-power.!
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post #2 of 121 Old 07-02-2013, 12:03 AM
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They are revealing one of the best kept secrets, namely that it is very hard to get more car for the money than the Maranellos. And possibly impossible to get more Ferrari for the money. Front engined V12, four cam, gearbox at the back, two seater body designed by Pininfarina. I have just described the 275 GTB/4; the Daytona; the Maranellos and the 599. I hope that it remains a secret, that way most will be enjoyed by serious drivers rather than collecting dust in speculators' warehouses.

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post #3 of 121 Old 07-02-2013, 07:30 AM
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Agree 100% with David. I suppose that, we, "The Maranello Appreciation Society", should be thankful that the "investment" community is only rating it a "hold". We need to get upset when they upgrade it to a "buy", and they will!!!!
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post #4 of 121 Old 07-02-2013, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Vitalone View Post
They are revealing one of the best kept secrets, namely that it is very hard to get more car for the money than the Maranellos. And possibly impossible to get more Ferrari for the money. Front engined V12, four cam, gearbox at the back, two seater body designed by Pininfarina. I have just described the 275 GTB/4; the Daytona; the Maranellos and the 599. I hope that it remains a secret, that way most will be enjoyed by serious drivers rather than collecting dust in speculators' warehouses.
As a 550 owner, I couldn't agree with you more. Just a spectacular car that just gobbles up the highway...Runs great, sounds great...and very impressive reliability. Even the AC works well...

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post #5 of 121 Old 07-02-2013, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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I am happy that after all the years of great press, it is being reflected in the values hardening and people realising that they are undervalued. Howver they are irreplacable-there is nothing this side of 100k i would rather have. Hopefully as value rises owners will be less likely to skimp on maintenance and look after them-including driving them regularly. Think mine may be getting an extra coat of zymol this weekend. Vitalones epic drives and onno's many documented tours show how capable they are. Just wish i could find the luggage set for a reasonable price, they are like hens teeth!
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post #6 of 121 Old 07-02-2013, 10:26 PM
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I saw that article as well. Impressed by the number of experts who all are rating the 550 as the one to buy and hold. Interesting that they all said 550 and not 575.
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post #7 of 121 Old 07-03-2013, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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I guess a manual 575 with FHp should be up there, although I have no personal experience of the differences from behind the wheel! Although it must be quicker
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post #8 of 121 Old 07-03-2013, 09:17 AM
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I guess a manual 575 with FHp should be up there, although I have no personal experience of the differences from behind the wheel! Although it must be quicker
I disagree. Not enough difference between 550 and 575 to be a big attraction with manual trans. In my opinion that is why sales figures for them were so low. The big attraction to 575 was because it was available with F1.

For the vast majority of shoppers manual guys will go straight to 550. An FHP manual car really limits your choices.
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post #9 of 121 Old 07-03-2013, 11:00 PM
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Hi guys,
I had a red from 2007 550 until last february, I just traded with a red 575 with HGTC package, I'm very satisfied of change, sometimes I have nostalgy of shift lever but the F1 gear box is nice to use ....
I was uncertain until the trade and probably I sold my 550 when it was to buy, and now I see the future not the past ...
I did not want to traded 550 with a normal 575, but only if I found one with gtc package because there are only 240 units built and i hope in the future the value will be increase, like a differences between Testarossa and 512TR or 512M.
Before to buy 575 HGTC I thinked that are not a big difference but now I have to think different .... the traction control is much better of 550, in normal or in sport I not listen when it is active, the function have a good calibration, probably not like a F1 trac of 599 but very efficient.
Other big difference is the car handling, with gtc suspension set up, 19 tyres and ceramic brakes, (same of enzo and 599), to drive that car is a pure enjoyment ....

My thought is if you are coming to buy now a 550 is a good choise, if you have 575 not trade for a 550 ... in every case the choise is very personal because are two wonderful cars ... like a pretty woman .... some people like a blond girl some people brown ....

The most important is to enjoy to drive our car until ...
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post #10 of 121 Old 07-04-2013, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
Hi guys,
My thought is if you are coming to buy now a 550 is a good choise, if you have 575 not trade for a 550 ... in every case the choise is very personal because are two wonderful cars ... like a pretty woman .... some people like a blond girl some people brown ....

The most important is to enjoy to drive our car until ...
Well put! Your 575 looks beautiful.

David

Current: 365BB, 550 bluebird and a few 911's
Past: 246gt, 512BB, 308 GTB "Michalone" and a few 911's
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post #11 of 121 Old 07-04-2013, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 550_Maranello View Post
My thought is if you are coming to buy now a 550 is a good choise, if you have 575 not trade for a 550 ... in every case the choise is very personal because are two wonderful cars ... like a pretty woman .... some people like a blond girl some people brown ....
ciao Fabio, choice ?!? It is not an Italian 'standard'! You take (or at least try to) both the pretty wom..ehm..cars !

ciao
Mauro

PS: are you going to the factory tour next October ? I will. Hoping to see you there.

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post #12 of 121 Old 07-04-2013, 07:04 AM
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Mauro,

yes better is take both ... ahahah
I think I will go to visit Ferrari next october, i hope you come in Lugo for the next Festa del cavallino next october.

Our card SFC Is arrived to you?

Fabio

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post #13 of 121 Old 07-04-2013, 09:31 AM
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Mauro,

yes better is take both ... ahahah
I think I will go to visit Ferrari next october, i hope you come in Lugo for the next Festa del cavallino next october.

Our card SFC Is arrived to you?

Fabio
Ciao Fabio, yes I received the card and the gadgets, thanks! I plan to be in Lugo for the Festa del Cavallino too.
Ciao
Mauro

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post #14 of 121 Old 07-15-2013, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 328Matt View Post
As i subscribe to classic and sportscar magazine-certainly one of, if not the most influential periodicals i thought i would share-this month there is a seperate booklet about the car market. After several experts commented on the cars we should be buying one car came out well above all others, nominated by 3 seperate people. "Foremost among them was the 550Maranello. Several picked it in the 15 to 50k catagory and the 50k to 100k catagory-many pinpointing it as a supremely under-appreciated car with great potential to go up in price...
This past weekend I read this booklet about the car market. Interesting but I also took it as an attempt to justify the current bubble to say that this is not a bubble but a sustainable long term growth that is going to grow even faster as China et al join the fray. In addition to the comments on the 550, what also jumped out was the number of people that said Derby Bentleys are good investments.
However what really jumped out was the separate chapter devoted to Aston Martin. Many comments were along the lines that Astons are undervalued compared to Ferraris. My immediate reaction is that the emperor is wearing no clothes! While I would love to add a '71 DBS V8 to the stable and a DB4GT makes me go weak at the knees, I think that the Aston Martin market exemplifies a bubble. DB5s at GBP300k plus, DB6 at GBP200k plus and they say that the DBS 6 at GBP60k plus is undervalued! To me the Astons compete against Maserati. Twin cam straight sixes evolving into quad cam V8s. DBS V8 plays Maserati Ghibli as opposed to Ferrari Daytona. DB 4 and 5 plays Maseratis 3500GT, Sebring and Mistral as opposed to Ferrari 250 Lusso, 330 and 365 GTC. On this basis Maseratis are undervalued in relation to Aston Martins. Or is it the other way around?
Fun to discuss, in practice I dream about various cars on the basis that I would love to own and drive them, rather than their investment potential.

David

Current: 365BB, 550 bluebird and a few 911's
Past: 246gt, 512BB, 308 GTB "Michalone" and a few 911's
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post #15 of 121 Old 07-15-2013, 09:55 AM
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Interesting but I also took it as an attempt to justify the current bubble to say that this is not a bubble but a sustainable long term growth that is going to grow even faster as China et al join the fray.
I beleive it is more of a bubble caused by the fact that it is very difficult to pick up a return in more traditional channels. E.g. near zero deposit rates, equity markets trading sideways on high volatility, buy to let market becoming saturated, etc. If you have money you need to invest it somewhere, but if interest rates rise again and equity markets become clearer why would you buy a car with large cost of carry with servicing etc?

I think a lot of sellers are just pricing high 'because someone will pay it'.

Recent examples:
  • Lambo Diablo SE 30 once owned by Jay Kay. Was for sale for 150K for a month, now same seller has it on for 200K, even though there are about 5 other cars around that have been for sale for a year.
  • 80s Aston Martin Vantage Volante - I quite like these but the styling is very 80s with all the skirts etc. Was for sale for 130K now for sale with same seller for 150K. Other dealers have these cars at 175K
  • 60K for a fiberglass 308 with 82K miles?
  • 75K for a fiberglass 308 with 45K miles?
  • One dealer has a 07 599 with 6K miles on it for 140K. Other dealers price this sort of car at around 100K
This sort of pricing seems to me more of a case of opportunism by the sellers rather than real growth.
I agree with Vitalone about Astons being overbid, look at the prices being asked for Series 3 V8s - high mileage tatty cars with owners asking for 45-50K. All the talk about the V6 DBS being the next car, but these cars were only a stop gap because the V8 engine wasn't ready. I understand that it was the last DAvid Brown car but why the V6 and not the V8?

575's seem to be not selling in the UK with a lot of the same cars still for sale. Perhaps they are caught between those who want a manual car (and therefore go 550 as a manual 575 is so rare) and those OK with the F1 but looking at 599s getting very close in price.

Have to go 'buy to drive' and not 'buy and hold'
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post #16 of 121 Old 07-16-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jemt View Post
I beleive it is more of a bubble caused by the fact that it is very difficult to pick up a return in more traditional channels. E.g. near zero deposit rates, equity markets trading sideways on high volatility, buy to let market becoming saturated, etc. If you have money you need to invest it somewhere, but if interest rates rise again and equity markets become clearer why would you buy a car with large cost of carry with servicing etc?

I think a lot of sellers are just pricing high 'because someone will pay it'.

Recent examples:
  • Lambo Diablo SE 30 once owned by Jay Kay. Was for sale for 150K for a month, now same seller has it on for 200K, even though there are about 5 other cars around that have been for sale for a year.
  • 80s Aston Martin Vantage Volante - I quite like these but the styling is very 80s with all the skirts etc. Was for sale for 130K now for sale with same seller for 150K. Other dealers have these cars at 175K
  • 60K for a fiberglass 308 with 82K miles?
  • 75K for a fiberglass 308 with 45K miles?
  • One dealer has a 07 599 with 6K miles on it for 140K. Other dealers price this sort of car at around 100K
This sort of pricing seems to me more of a case of opportunism by the sellers rather than real growth.
I agree with Vitalone about Astons being overbid, look at the prices being asked for Series 3 V8s - high mileage tatty cars with owners asking for 45-50K. All the talk about the V6 DBS being the next car, but these cars were only a stop gap because the V8 engine wasn't ready. I understand that it was the last DAvid Brown car but why the V6 and not the V8?

575's seem to be not selling in the UK with a lot of the same cars still for sale. Perhaps they are caught between those who want a manual car (and therefore go 550 as a manual 575 is so rare) and those OK with the F1 but looking at 599s getting very close in price.

Have to go 'buy to drive' and not 'buy and hold'

Agree 100%. Interest rates levels are THAT important competitive factor to about everything. I personally call it "cost of opportunity" changing over time to "expectunity".

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post #17 of 121 Old 07-16-2013, 10:36 AM
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Jem- Those early DBS cars had the classic A-M DOHC straight 6 of the DB2-6 series, plus wire wheels, and that may be why there is interest.

Taz
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post #18 of 121 Old 07-16-2013, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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I know we love our cars, the reason for my original post was just to raise awareness. My car represents a significant outlay for me-second only to my house. My daily driver for example being a peugeot. There is no car I prefer to the 550 at present for the same value-but if prices continue to rise as predicted, I may have to let her go-I would find it hard to justify having that much equity sat in the garage. However as many wealthy types say " money does not make you happy but it does give you choices". Whatever we choose to do its always nice to have that choice! Additionally! The 550 has always had fantastic press- whether when new or as a second hand buy. I have countless articles on the car and there is barely a bad word other than the way it looks which is subjective anyway. The way the car drives is beyond reproach. Build quality is excellent and although it was built in reasonable numbers I have yet to come across one while driving in the 4 years I have had mine. The number of people turning to more analogue cars with a clutch and gearshift will only turn more people on to the car. After all the good press it's surprising people have not seen what great value it is before now.
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post #19 of 121 Old 07-17-2013, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Jem- Those early DBS cars had the classic A-M DOHC straight 6 of the DB2-6 series, plus wire wheels, and that may be why there is interest.
Hi Taz, on the DBS the point I was trying to make was that the 6 cylinder DBS was, logically, the flawed version. It only existed becasue the V8 engine wasn't ready and got pasted in the press of the time for being slower than the DB6. The V8 DBS got great reviews by contrast even though it was too heavy for wire wheels.
Therefore, if the V8 is more drivable but the DBS 6 is more collectable, the market is more about emotion and perception, rather than which is mechanically better - there is another thread about the 355 being worse than the 360 mechanically but prettier and therefore will rise in value. Not being able to apply logic makes 'investing' in the cars very hard and you have to not worry about driving the car but other factors. This perhaps makes it more like the market for art.
For me personally, I can't get past the better to drive bit even though the DBS 6 looks better on wires.

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Originally Posted by 328Matt View Post
...The number of people turning to more analogue cars with a clutch and gearshift will only turn more people on to the car. After all the good press it's surprising people have not seen what great value it is before now.
Matt, the 550 is fantastic and links to my point above about great to drive. The friends I have with 550s love them and love them more the more they drive them.
In the UK the 550 seems to be almost at parity to the 575 F1.
e.g. 31K miles 1999 550 advertised at 59K vs, a 33K miles 2004 575F1 at 60K. The only differences is the manual 575, there is a manual 575 for sale in the UK, 30K miles 2003 575 manual but at 75K. 16K uplift on 575 vs 550 seems too much of a difference to me under normal road driving.
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post #20 of 121 Old 07-17-2013, 02:38 AM
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Hi Taz, on the DBS the point I was trying to make was that the 6 cylinder DBS was, logically, the flawed version. It only existed becasue the V8 engine wasn't ready and got pasted in the press of the time for being slower than the DB6. The V8 DBS got great reviews by contrast even though it was too heavy for wire wheels.
Therefore, if the V8 is more drivable but the DBS 6 is more collectable, the market is more about emotion and perception, rather than which is mechanically better...
Fully agree Jemt, the market is not logical at all. While I would love a DBS V8, I would not touch a DBS 6, yet the latter is more expensive! For a number of years after production, DBS V8s were avoided due to their problematical fuel injection. I believe that this issue has been sorted out and that a well sorted DBS V8 is quicker than the later carburettor V8 and has performance similar to a V8 Vantage from 1979-1990! I like the fact that the market is not logical, it means there are great buys out there. Such as Maranellos and DBS V8s. Particularly in metallic blues of the Ferrari racing red variety.

David

Current: 365BB, 550 bluebird and a few 911's
Past: 246gt, 512BB, 308 GTB "Michalone" and a few 911's
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