599 Full Service history of not? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 05-11-2013, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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599 Full Service history of not?

I have been looking at 599s recently and have looked at 3 in detail. 2 are at a Ferrari Main Dealer, and offered under the Ferrari Approved Used Scheme, the other at an independant.

The service schedule for the 599 says annual normally, with major services every 12,500 miles.

All cars are advertised as full service history and all work has been done a main Ferrari dealers

but..

Car 1: 07 car with 22K miles, mostly annaul or annual-ish (13/14 months) but when the major was due there was an 18 month gap between the annual and the major when car had done about 6k miles.

Car 2: 08 car with 10K miles. annual service in 09, 10 and 12. No service in 2011 and car did approx 3K miles in the 2010-2012 period. Due 2013 service but that is included in price.

Car 3: 08 car serviced after 6 months at 880 miles (demo car sold to only other owner), annual (12months) 3.5K miles, annaul (15months) 7.5K miles, annual (19 months) 10K.

Obviously the sellers say the service schedule is not a problem but to me, none of these car have a full service history as the annuals should have been done every 12 months regardless of miles as my other cars are. I can accept 13/14 months on a low mileage car as practical issue can get in the way, but 15 months and over is a problem.

So I would appreciate your opinions.
Am I being too picky especially as 2 of the cars are approved used cars. Would you guys pass on the cars when I come around to sell?
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post #2 of 15 Old 05-12-2013, 01:46 PM
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#1 I might have an issue with. #2 and #3, if everything else checks out I would think are ok.
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post #3 of 15 Old 05-13-2013, 07:37 AM
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The attention to service history can sometimes be a surface level indicator as to how much the owner cared for the vehicle and can prepare you to ready for signs of abuse and neglect. It can also indicate that the car wasn't used very much and sat, therefore the owner didn't see value in spending on the service.

I would want to see what was carried out during the "annuals' specifically. Some times it really just a engine oil change, other times it's a complete fluids and filters change, at some point it includes the accessories belt and spark plugs.

Take the time to understand the shcedules outlined in the owner's manual and compare to what was listed out in the work orders. From there, you can start to surmise how well the cars were or were not serviced.


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post #4 of 15 Old 06-01-2013, 06:49 PM
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Looks like prices are heading even further south Jem...

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post #5 of 15 Old 06-02-2013, 12:56 AM
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Doubt they will drop much below GBP 70K. 575s seem to have firmed up in the 50-60k range and 599s will end up sitting just above.
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post #6 of 15 Old 06-02-2013, 12:33 PM
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Doubt they will drop much below GBP 70K. 575s seem to have firmed up in the 50-60k range and 599s will end up sitting just above.
That is a lot of car for the money.

Looking at V12s generally. I have noticed the number of cars sitting around the classifieds for considerable periods is quite high. In addition I suspect sellers at the moment are being a little too optimistic on asking prices. Be interesting to see the next few months.


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post #7 of 15 Old 06-02-2013, 06:43 PM
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Fifteen or eighteen months would not bother me. They do not self-destruct.

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post #8 of 15 Old 06-08-2013, 12:50 PM
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Some price speculation, spoke to a guy today who recently parted with 107 big ones for a fully spec'd '09 599 in Rosso/Crema (i,e. resale red) a couple of months ago, his estimate on the car today was around 100+, the F salesman in on the conversation was thinking around 90. That is a hell of a bath in 2-3 months!

What a beautiful car!

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post #9 of 15 Old 06-09-2013, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t1fosI View Post
Some price speculation, spoke to a guy today who recently parted with 107 big ones for a fully spec'd '09 599 in Rosso/Crema (i,e. resale red) a couple of months ago, his estimate on the car today was around 100+, the F salesman in on the conversation was thinking around 90. That is a hell of a bath in 2-3 months!

.
looking at the UK prices £107K for a low milage, full spec 2009 car seems to be about where an F Dealer would advertise the car, pre negotiation. I assume the F salesman was quoting what he would pay, that would be consistant with a 20% margin.

Like the 458, the 599 seems to depreciate approx 15K a year, but is compressing for the early 06/07 and now 08 cars

Are you buying the red car? I think its a market to bid hard in, and then hang on to the car for a while, Selling is going to hurt but you will have had the car to enjoy.
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post #10 of 15 Old 06-09-2013, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemt View Post
looking at the UK prices £107K for a low milage, full spec 2009 car seems to be about where an F Dealer would advertise the car, pre negotiation. I assume the F salesman was quoting what he would pay, that would be consistant with a 20% margin.

Like the 458, the 599 seems to depreciate approx 15K a year, but is compressing for the early 06/07 and now 08 cars

Are you buying the red car? I think its a market to bid hard in, and then hang on to the car for a while, Selling is going to hurt but you will have had the car to enjoy.
If you consider that the bottom is around GBP 70k, then buying at GBP 90-95k and holding for 3-4 years is not too painful. In fact what other 600 bhp cars can you buy and only take a 5-7k depreciation hit on per year.
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post #11 of 15 Old 06-09-2013, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
If you consider that the bottom is around GBP 70k, then buying at GBP 90-95k and holding for 3-4 years is not too painful. In fact what other 600 bhp cars can you buy and only take a 5-7k depreciation hit on per year.
That is fine IF the floor is £70K, but I don't believe it is. I would suggest it is somewhere in the £40Ks: that is about where BBs, TRs, and 550s went before they firmed up / started to lift off. However, in the longer term, the sky's the limit - every 2-seater V12 Ferrari has hit bottom and then started to climb, some of course to astronomic levels. And those with more seats and / or less cylinders, too, albeit not usually quite so dramatically as the 2-seater V12s. So IMO the 599 has probably got another 50% to lose, then maybe 5-10 years static, but after that it could be a good investment.

Fun, crystal ball gazing, isn't it? Also safe: by the time anyone can prove you wrong, they'll have long forgotten what you said (unless you are e.g. HG Wells or Nostradamus).

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post #12 of 15 Old 06-09-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebottle View Post
That is fine IF the floor is £70K, but I don't believe it is. I would suggest it is somewhere in the £40Ks: that is about where BBs, TRs, and 550s went before they firmed up / started to lift off. However, in the longer term, the sky's the limit - every 2-seater V12 Ferrari has hit bottom and then started to climb, some of course to astronomic levels. And those with more seats and / or less cylinders, too, albeit not usually quite so dramatically as the 2-seater V12s. So IMO the 599 has probably got another 50% to lose, then maybe 5-10 years static, but after that it could be a good investment.

Fun, crystal ball gazing, isn't it? Also safe: by the time anyone can prove you wrong, they'll have long forgotten what you said (unless you are e.g. HG Wells or Nostradamus).
In this case I would use the 575 as more of a guide. They dropped to the mid GBP 50k range before firming in the GBP 60k range, Early high mileage 599s might hit GBP 60k but I doubt nice cars will go below GBP 70k.

Personally I hope you are right as I will definitely be a buyer at GBP 40k.
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post #13 of 15 Old 06-09-2013, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemt View Post
Are you buying the red car? I think its a market to bid hard in, and then hang on to the car for a while, Selling is going to hurt but you will have had the car to enjoy.
No, just researching - trying to resolve certain things in my mind.

The 599 is a really beautifully put together automobile. I agree with what you say re bidding hard. In my mind it is about being as close to the apex as possible and in this respect I defer to our learned friends above re prices. I suspect the apex will be around GBP60-70k for a decent example and I don't think the time is so far off given the number of unsold cars at the moment.

One thing I think is important is servicing cost, or perceived servicing costs. At the sub-100 price point that becomes a top factor for many potential buyers and therefore if the perceived cost of maintenance is high than that will pressure residuals further. I am assuming that many potential 599 buyers already own a Ferrari or similar and will be making some comparative assessment in this regard.

Also I think one of the factors that initially pummeled 550-575 residuals was the onset of recession in 2007-08 and the uncertainty that brought. The uncertainty is still there to a degree, although perhaps not the same extent and this may/may not have an ongoing impact.


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post #14 of 15 Old 06-10-2013, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
In this case I would use the 575 as more of a guide. They dropped to the mid GBP 50k range before firming in the GBP 60k range, Early high mileage 599s might hit GBP 60k but I doubt nice cars will go below GBP 70k.

Personally I hope you are right as I will definitely be a buyer at GBP 40k.
Not sure I agree with that either:
1. Search for 575s on Pistonheads just now showed 12 cars, 7 below £60K: 3 with mileages in the 30Ks, 3 in the 20Ks and one at 17K. So, on the face of it, decent cars. And those are asking prices.
2. Nice looking, well-specced '03 575 in blu / beige (probably most saleable colours just now) 36K miles at a dealer in Berks., eventually shifted recently: they were asking£53K, so assume sold at around £50K.

Best wishes, John
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post #15 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemt View Post
I have been looking at 599s recently and have looked at 3 in detail. 2 are at a Ferrari Main Dealer, and offered under the Ferrari Approved Used Scheme, the other at an independant.

The service schedule for the 599 says annual normally, with major services every 12,500 miles.

All cars are advertised as full service history and all work has been done a main Ferrari dealers

but..

Car 1: 07 car with 22K miles, mostly annaul or annual-ish (13/14 months) but when the major was due there was an 18 month gap between the annual and the major when car had done about 6k miles.

Car 2: 08 car with 10K miles. annual service in 09, 10 and 12. No service in 2011 and car did approx 3K miles in the 2010-2012 period. Due 2013 service but that is included in price.

Car 3: 08 car serviced after 6 months at 880 miles (demo car sold to only other owner), annual (12months) 3.5K miles, annaul (15months) 7.5K miles, annual (19 months) 10K.

Obviously the sellers say the service schedule is not a problem but to me, none of these car have a full service history as the annuals should have been done every 12 months regardless of miles as my other cars are. I can accept 13/14 months on a low mileage car as practical issue can get in the way, but 15 months and over is a problem.

So I would appreciate your opinions.
Am I being too picky especially as 2 of the cars are approved used cars. Would you guys pass on the cars when I come around to sell?
Its a bit confusing to me.
I have spoken to a couple of main dealers recently, who said they could NOT add the Ferrari approved, to a car that did not have a FULL service history, so it might be worth confirming that, they are actually adding the Ferrari approved warranty and not their own.

The car i bought in the end, had 1 year remaining of the Ferrari warranty, and they gave me another two, so I end up with 3 years which I am very pleased about, of course i had to chase them up to get in writing!
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